Talk:Starfleet officer accession ranks

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[edit] Reverts of major blanking

I just reverted a major series of edits where half the article was blanked and two pictures were removed [1]. While some of the edits had merit, blanking half the article is not the way to go without at least first discussing it. In particular:

• All references to Star Trek II Midshipman conflcit were removed
• References to Midshipman rank in Star Trek literature deleted
• All data on Wesley Crusher's junior youth uniform were deleted
• Citation Needed tag added to the line that says Star Trek has established Cadet as a rank used by Starfleet Academy (thats pretty well documented in a lot of places)
• removal of TNG Cadet pic and pic of Wesley Crusher

Not saying the editor was wrong, just being bold which is fine, but that kuind of major edit, espeically when half the article was deleted, should be discussed. -Husnock 15:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

So you reverted the article, even when "some of the edits had merit," because it lacked an edit summary? Kind of a dick thing to do, even for a squid. (This last meant generally in jest.) The better part of valor would have been at least to retain what you thought were the decent edits.

Even in jest, saying another user is acting like a "dick" and then calling them a "Squid" based on thier membership in the United States Navy could be seen as a personal attacks. Please be very careful as comments left on this site can be taken quite literally. -Husnock 01:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough on the personal attack, although it was slothful considering that the majority of the edits were the kind of grammar, style, general good editing things that help to spruce things up. Similarly lazy on your more recent copy-and-paste restore of the last few 'graphs. As for "comments left on this site" being "taken quite literally", well, I don't know about you, but to the best of my knowledge my genitalia have never actually made a Wikipedia edit; but, if that's a concern on your end, I'm sure there are plenty of doctors out there who can give you a shortarm inspection and clear that right up. --EEMeltonIV the quasi-retired Bullet Sponge

As an Administrator, the general policy rule is "comment on the content, not the contributor". It's a rule that protects everyone, both the people who post comments and the people they are directed at. I've seen people blocked for a week for as little as calling someone a jerk, never mind about the real serious attacks like threats and blatant profanity directed against other users. But, that is not the case here. The policy page on NPA would be a good place to discuss any other further issues. -Husnock 12:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding your points:

• What Star Trek 2 conflict? In the words of Darth Vader, there is no conflict: Court Martial establishes Starfleet's use of "midshipman" as a title. It's more apt to say that the term "midshipman" is not used again after TWOK. Eh, perhaps I should have actually said that.
• Trek Lit - fair enough
• "Junior youth" is a half-baked term that I don't think even shows up in fanon. Anyhow, more significant, at no point when Crusher wears that outfit is he, or is he referred to as, a cadet. This is one of the things I did put in an edit summary, specifically, that it should go either on the character page (since it's specific to Crusher) or on the ensign page because it's the "acting ensign" leotard uniform.
• I don't remember doing that. Probably left it as a heads up to drop in an episode title. But, you're right.
• Took out the Lacarno pic because it jacked up the layout -- was silly to have the image sitting underneath the table. If there's enough (text) content there after leaving the lit stuff, I suppose it makes sense. Deleted the Crusher pic for the same reason outlined above.

Anyhow, I'm leaving work in a bit but will put my (merit-worthy) edits and some of the more unsavory ones back in. --EEMeltonIV 20:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Need to discuss blanking the whole Wes thing. See below. -Husnock 01:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wesley Crusher

Another user has proposed removing all references to Wes in this article, due to his status in the show, i.e. "Acting Ensign". Perhaps he can be mentioned over at the Ensign article, but his general status was to be a cadet. The producers put him in a uniform to give him a "West Point Cadet" look per the Okudas. Need some opinions on this before blanking the entire section; fgor that matter, it shouldn't be blanked but rather moved. -Husnock 01:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Crusher's acting ensign stint seems analagous to the Army's CTLT program (not sure what the Navy's equivalent is) in that one gets thrust into the chain of command, which certainly happens in that "freaky orphan with long fingers played by Nikki Cox" episode. The catch is, participation is predicated on being a cadet in the first place, which Crusher isn't. One's cadet/officer status in CTLT is sometimes ambiguous, as seems the case with Crusher. Still, considering that he's never in fact a cadet until he leaves the regular cast, seems the material would be more apt as a footnote on the ensign page. --EEMeltonIV 02:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I have an idea to completely revamp this article into something like Starfleet Officer Accession Ranks. It would allow all of the Wes stuff to remain in. When the real world calms down a bit and I have some time, I will devote myself to the that transistion. -Husnock 12:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

There! Much better than blanking the article. The new article looks pretty neat. All encouragement for expansion and improvement. -Husnock 12:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Constantly removed info

I keep taking this out:

Based on the limited information provided, one possible explanation of Wesley’s uniform is that the grey tunic was a sort of “junior youth” uniform similar to the present day Sea Cadets or the Cadets of Junior Naval ROTC. Another explanation is that the uniform is indeed an established Starfleet uniform, possibly an Officer Cadet jacket.

Because (as I've actually put in the edit summary) it is unverifiable speculation. Expressions like "a sort of" are vague and insubstantial. Why not also tack on that, "Another explanation is that his mother was originally going to knit him a quilt for his birthday but, upon his promotion, designed this uniform but ran out of thread before she could sew up the back of the belt-like strap around his waist. Another possible explanation is that it is the only outfit he could find to cover the muscle suit he wore underneath." Please offer a citation --EEMeltonIV 10:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Obviously, we wouldn't write the sarcastic stuff you mentioned; why even say something like that? The speculation is based on interviews with production designer M. Okuda. Okuda commented that Wesley's uniform was intended to be along the lines of a junior youth/JROTC program and also to give Wes a "military look". I do not have access to my sources right now as I am deployed serving in the War on Terrorism and alot of this is from memory. When I return next year, I can look up the exact circumstances of Okuda's statements. -Husnock 12:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I offer the sarcastic write-up because it's the exact phrasing and has the exact same support (in terms of citation backing it up) as what's there now. i.e. the current wording looks like original research. I will revamp it. --EEMeltonIV 12:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)