Talk:Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace

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[edit] Historical and cultural allusions

PLEASE HELP ME Sorry to ask this but I was not able to find it on the page. I remember seeing this film on Midnight opening night, However the people I work with said that they where not allowed to show a midnight showing, and say that becuase I was nine years old that I must have seen it the next nigth and just thougth that it was the midnight showing, if you know where I can find a site that states that at least some theaters had a midnight showing that would be very helpful, you can email me at spencerjfish@yahoo.com. Thanks Again



To quote from the named section in the article: "The Star Wars film cycle features a similar religious narrative involving Anakin."

Similar to what? The previous sentence in that paragraph is referring Maul's appearance. The only sentence before that is a general statement, half of which is also on Maul's appearance. (Since contributors seem to be playing up the Japanese connection, one might as well say that Maul's appearance comes from oni. Maybe someone can write a piece of religious propaganda with that in it, then we can cite that as a reference--not introduce it as original research--such as a contributor has done to support the devil-like appearance.)

I must confess to being insufficiently familiar with the Bible to know the bit about a "messiah born of a virgin who is tempted to join ... his sworn enemy—in order to save the life of ... his secret wife." Perhaps that is part of the reworked Bible that originates from a similar place to that which ejested midichlorians. Virgin birth and a messiah only occur in the New Testament and--unless someone is tempted to relate this to the forty days--that character is never tempted to join the enemy, nor is there a secret wife. (Don't start quoting The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail to me, thank you.)

To claim that virgin birth "parallels a concept developed by Joseph Campbell" is an unfortunate choice of word--unless one is suggesting that Campbell is an immortal or time-traveller who first came up with the story of virgin birth a long time ago maybe in a galaxy far, far away. Perhaps he described or elaborated it but develop can mean originate generate and that he didn't do.

Given that the birth of Luke and Leia and Padme's death doesn't come until two films later this concept is misplaced in this article.

The section is confusing and needs to be reworked or removed. Waerloeg 09:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Saga Begins

Should this song be referenced anywhere here? Perhaps under "pop culture references" or something? Just a thought.--Gleezus 16:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

  • A "Pop culture references" section is merely a trivia section in disguise. The Filmaker 16:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Several articles fork off "pop culture references" into their own lists for this reason. It keeps the size of the main article down, and keeps away objections of having a "trivia" section. --JohnDBuell 04:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jedi "Mind Tricks" don't work on Gungans

In the synopsis is the following sentence:

  • Through a Jedi mind trick, Qui-Gon secures a submarine, which he, Obi-Wan, and Jar Jar use to reach the capital of Naboo and rescue Queen Amidala and her escort.

As I recall, the trick didn't work, and Qui-Gon was chastised for trying it. He ultimately used diplomacy (and the Gungans' desire to be rid of Jar Jar) to get the submarine. I'll let someone more expert on the topic make the fix. Fjbfour 23:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

    • Never mind, I realized my error, the article is correct. Fjbfour 00:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VHS release?

I'm surprised nothing is said about the initial resistance to a DVD release. I still have one of the US boxsets of the VHS release (Widescreen Collector's Edition from early 2000), which Lucas's people said at the time would be all that would be released until the prequels were done. There was also apparently some consideration as to whether or not they should BACK DVD (which in 2000 hadn't really picked up in sales yet, and DIVX had only just died). It was only after fan-led petitions that they caved and did a DVD release, which then followed the later two movies. Archives of some of the debates on the issue can still be found online (see forums.dvdfile.com). Of course, conspiracy fans would say George intended it to happen that way all along, just as with releasing the original trilogy on DVD.... --JohnDBuell 04:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I am not aware of any such debate or resistance to the DVD release. If you'd like it to be included in the article, you'll have to cite your sources. Message boards (forums) are not considered to be suitable references. The Filmaker 05:04, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
[1] February 2000 statement by Lucasfilm on a non-release of Ep I on DVD in 2000. Amazon lists an original release date of April 2000 for the VHS, and preorders seemed to have started in January or February of 2000. The first DVD wasn't released until October 16rh 2001; the announcement must have been in August or September, but I'm not finding the actual announcement, just a September 10th 2001 press release about its creation: [2] IMDb also notes that this was the final (or one of the final) movies to be released on LaserDisc, but it seems to be the only source for that. (on another note, "The Phantom Edit" that circulated fan circles as episode 1.1, with a lot of Jar-Jar's scenes cut, got a mention in all but name at [3]). --JohnDBuell 05:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Going by the archives at thedigitalbits.com, the DVD announcement was made in June 2001, about 14 months after the VHS release, and 16 months after the DVD denials. [4] The release is covered on [5] details on the campaign run by SW fans and film fans is still up at [6]. --JohnDBuell 06:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Front Page

Good job guys, I feel both happy and sad that this is a featured article. On one hand, it's a star wars movie. On the other, it's Phantom Menace. Keep up the good work Star Wars Wiki. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 00:10, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 924.3 million?

The article says it made $924.3 million.That's more than ROTS which made about $850 million.

is there a miscalculation? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.94.136.63 (talk) 00:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

  • No, without adjusting for inflation, The Phantom Menace is the highest grossing Star Wars film. The Filmaker 00:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Is this 924.3 Million WORLDWIDE right? Because not even Titanic made that much domestically. And, that's the reason I came to this discussion page. I remember seeing a news show, can't remember which, that said Lucasfilm expected to break Titanic's gross income, they didn't, but I wish they had. Even though people camped our near movie theatres to be first to buy tickets to TPM, people were seeing Titanic literally 30 times. The snare 05:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes, TPM = 924 million Worldwide, ROTS = 850 million Worldwide. The Filmaker 05:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yoda leader of the Jedi council?

I copied this from the article: "Frank Oz as Yoda. The leader of the Jedi Council, who is apprehensive about allowing Anakin to be trained. Samuel L. Jackson as Mace Windu. A member of the Jedi Council who also opposes the idea of training Anakin." But it's the other way around. Windu was the council leader, Yoda was just another member. It's counter intuitive, I know, but that's the way it was. Vince 00:42, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

And where did you get this from? Gdo01 00:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] great

its the featured article.
again.
>:|—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.128.155.32 (talk • contribs).

Not "again". You may be confusing this article with Revenge of the Sith which was Today's featured article about six months ago. The Filmaker 04:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Angry

Forget it. I tried rewriting parts of the article to make it read better and we have the typical Wikipedia self-elitists making things the way they want. I'm not going to sit here for hours and hours and play games with this. Gabe 07:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

You tried changing "George Lucas is a legend and" to "Legendary film maker George Lucas". Neither instance was correct, as while George is legendary in my opinion and yours, it's exactly that, an opinion. Any opinion in Wikipedia must be in quotation marks and cited to a reliable source. -- Zanimum 17:40, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religious

The following is direct from the article

"... reappearance of the Sith, a religious order "

I know quite a bit in star wars and I do not believe that the sith should be classified as a "religious order." Does this mean that the Jedi order was an opposing "religious order"? Jackchen123

  • The Sith articles are in the 'Jedi religion' category although I don't know if that's appropriate. Siths form an order pursuing similar goals and using similar means, but I very much doubt it could be considered a religious order. I don't remember any Sith talking about gods, religious rituals and such. The only "religious" remark is about a god-like status of a Sith leader. I've replaced "a religious order" to "an opposing order." Svetovid 16:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
In Star Wars itself one of the generals scoffs at Vader and his "sad devotion" to an "ancient religion." And Vader's response is, "I find your lack of faith disturbing." Also, in Empire, when Yoda explains the Force to Luke, he is clearly describing a religious attitude. Fumblebruschi 18:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, throughout the Star Wars series there are a number of references to the Force as an "outmoded religion" by those who have never witnessed somebody manipulate it. I think the idea of it as a religion is supposed to be a misconception brought on by the ignorance of those whose minds are too clouded to feel the force. It's much like Hinduism in the sense that people are clouded by their ego and do not realise that Hinduism is not a way of life, or a religion- it is dissosciation from life and a philosophy. It seems that there are a few plausible references to Eastern religions in the Star Wars series. The Jedi's were not organised in a religious fashion. Darth Vader was most likely mocking the General's ignorance for believing it to be just an "outmoded religion". Ph33rspace 04:36, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
It's true, in Star Wars Obi-Wan does not use the word "religion." Tarkin does ("The Jedi are extinct. You, my friend, are all that remains of their religion.") and so does Han Solo. However, Solo calls the Jedi beliefs a "religion" in front of Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan does not disagree. Also, the way the characters discuss it, it seems like a religious issue. Luke says accusingly to Solo, "You don't believe in the Force, do you?" And such statements as "May the Force be with you" are not really just philosophical observations. The Jedi do not seem to have been priests or ministers, but they were a hierarchical organization dedicated to a supernatural entity which they describe as though it were a living, conscious being. What is that, if not a religion? Fumblebruschi 20:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

so its defiently a religious order. But its more science then anything, the force is real (relativley speaking) and the lightsaber and stuff is based on science. I don't see how its a religion. Although Fumblebruschi point is well taken except i think Darth Vader was being sacarstic.

[edit] Kudos

One thing I like about this article, and that I was worried about when I set off to read it, was that the first sentence of the reaction section begins with the rottentomatoes score. I've been inserting that into the lead of all kinds of movie's critical reception/reaction sections as it first and foremost let's the reader know the real critical score and can serve to prevent cherry picking. Even if cherry picking is done later people can still see through it one way or the other. The rest of the article is solid too and I'm very glad to see this movie (which I actually liked despite Jar Jar and the kid's bad acting) get such a good article. Quadzilla99 08:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Front page needs changed

The opening line is vandalism and needs to be fixed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.61.0.50 (talk) 13:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

Reply on 204.61.0.50's talk page —Malber (talk • contribs) 22:11, 8 April 2007

[edit] Sandstorm

I readded that bit which a user removed. It's relevant and interesting but could someone else review? Thanks. - Denny 14:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Seem relevant enough to me. The Filmaker 15:12, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
It's trivia. It's not relevent to the filming. It's just thrown in there. It's not brilliant prose. It's poorly sourced. This is a featured article. Enough reasons? Hipocrite - «Talk» 19:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Sandstorm that wipes out the film's sets is not relevant? It was relevant to them. It was relevant to their filming. It's relevant within the article. The prose is fine, there isn't anything wrong with it. As for the source, the source contains photographic evidence of the sandstorm and first-hand accounts of what happened. It is a proper source. The Filmaker 20:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I dunno. How many films filmed in the desert have their sets wiped out? Can you integrate some sandstorm into the overall narritave? As it was, you basically wrote "Hey, sandstorm." Write it here first. Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I honestly do not have the statistics over how many films that are filmed in the desert have their sets wiped out. I also honestly don't believe that they exist. However, since an entire Featurette was devoted to the incident, I doubt that it is common enough to disregard. The Filmaker 21:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Can you add more info about it to integrate it into the text? Like I said - right now it reads "hey, sandstorm." It's just floating out there. Why is it notable? Hipocrite - «Talk» 21:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I just made some edits to the section in question, mentioning that there was a similar sandstorm on the Star Wars set back in 1976. In light of the interesting parallels, I believe it's fairly significant to the production history of the film. If there is agreement, then the maintenance tag should be removed. Alcarillo 23:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

As for the dispute about the ambiguity of the title - if you need to explain to someone who's already seen the film what the title refers to, it's ambiguous. MisfitToys 20:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


It's notable from this bit of historical trivia... "While filming, a fierce sandstorm destroyed several of the Tatooine sets in the desert outside Tozeur, Tunisia, and filming resumed two days later. The same thing would happen to George Lucas 22 years later while filming Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999)" I can only find it (so far...) on IMDB here in the controlled (non-message board) section, so it's audited by their editors. The 1977 sandstorm is pretty common knowledge and in the extras--I don't remember which set/release--you can see Spielberg and Lucas walking through the wreckage, laughing about it in 1977 after the storm. It's worth mentioning since the historical irony of having it happen again at the lead off of the next trilogy as well.

What could be the best way to integrate this...? - Denny 00:02, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Do we really need that {{content}} tag in regard to this bit of information about the sandstorm? The tag seems to have been placed with unnecessary hostility, judging from the edit summaries. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 00:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I removed the tag... the sand storm info has been in that spot since at least last July 2006. I think concensus supports its staying then. - Denny 00:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I reinserted the tag. You will not win by edit warring. I suggest you integrate "hey, sandstorm" into the text or get rid of it. Hipocrite - «Talk» 13:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep the sandstorm bit out and remove the tag; it doesn't make or break the article, and it will stop this pointless squabbling. Please go back to editing your primary articles. — Deckiller 14:05, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I feel this information has merit, and there is no consensus to remove it. If this user reinserts it, it's a 3rr I believe... - Denny 16:35, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me understand - a four day old user is going to insist on keeping trivia in the article, he's not going to make any improvements to the trivia, he's going to edit war about it, and he's calling me the edit warrior? If this trivia problem isn't solved, I'm going to ask for more eyes to look at the entirety of this article. Hipocrite - «Talk» 16:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I really don't wanna edit war, ok? What wording do you think is OK? And everyone else together? Please what do the regular article editors think too? - Denny 17:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
How about, instead of arguing over a tidbit of verifiable, you try to work something about the "citation needed" tag in that same section? It *is* a featured article, after all, and that tag is far more harmful to it than the question whether that detail about a sandstorm is relevant. Circeus 19:32, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm gonna bow out and leave it to the regular contributors... I don't see what the big deal with the sandstorm stuff is, and it's verfable. If someone wants to take down the tag its up to you. Sorry if I caused I any trouble by trying to help... - Denny 19:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protect Article

Now that it's featured article, shouldn't the admins protect/semiprotect it, cause there's been a lot of vandalism going on to this article. Luksuh 16:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Although main page FAs are the target of much vandalism, there is widespread concensus not to protect them. They are the first page many see of the free encyclopedia anyone can edit and its been felt to be offputting if that page cannot in fact be edited. Often anon users spot revert vandalism and sometimes they even spot errors or contribute useful content. Many users watchlist the mainpage FA and vandalism is reverted fairly quickly. WJBscribe 16:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page gone?

I was going to edit out an instance of 'Obi-Wanker', when I noticed that the whole article had been changed to simply "aaaa". What happened??

victoria 17:05, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I just love how vandals actually list in the edit summary what they did to the page. That is so stupid it's hilarious. I just wish it would stop because I was actually trying to look up something when I got the blank page and then the Worst Star Wars Movie ever line in the refresh. SailorAlphaCentauri 19:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually the vandals don't; the summaries are automatically added. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 19:27, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh well. It was more fun when I thought people were being stupid. SailorAlphaCentauri 19:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I mean, on top of vandalizing the page. SailorAlphaCentauri 19:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 :-) WJBscribe 01:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

Soory for damaging the formatting of this page. I was also working elsewhere, and wasn't paying enough attention. Again, my apologies.

Also, why is this page up for speedy deletion? MacGuy 18:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Messed Up!

Someone has messed the page up! With:

"Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars ARTHUR MONNEThe Ti love star wars...ect" Aero Flame 20:40, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


Someone has fixed it now :) Aero Flame 20:42, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this a normal occurrence?

Does this happen to every page that becomes a featured article? MacGuy 22:29, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

  • It mostly happens to featured articles that are Today's featured article. However, since it's Star Wars, it's a little more so. Especially since it's a film that was not...... loved by a lot of the fans. The Filmaker 22:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes. You should have seen what happened when San Francisco was the featured article. Now that was bad. Gdo01 22:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Replying to MacGuy: Wikipedia chooses to allow each day's featured, most highly trafficked article to be abused over and over again by IP editors, and in doing so chooses to confuse some significant portion of its readers (as is obvious in a couple of comments here). I've never understood this silliness and dogmatism, but it's based on the (disputed) "policy" at Wikipedia:Main Page featured article protection. Discussion is here. –Outriggr § 01:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
The particularly preposterous levels of vandalism are recent development of the last six months, however, and it's quite likely that it will soon become the normal practice to semi-protect today's feature. Circeus 19:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Not really the last six months, no. You should have seen the vandalism on the Ido article last Christmas. Mithridates 22:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] youtube links of music videos

The links to various video websites present various copyright and WP issues, such as spurious links. See WP:EL for a full discussion. thanks!-Robotam 16:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sectioning of Reaction section

The recent sectioning of the Reaction section seems pointless. While I can see the desire for efficiency, there is a line that has to be drawn. All of these subjects are on the subject of the public's (as in not the production and distribution companies') reaction to the film. Hence we have a "Reaction" section. This is over sectioning. There is no need to section of Fans vs. Critics as they are related to the same overall subject. In addition, I believe that user also added a bit of OR to the opening of the "Fan Reaction" section. Something can not be allowed in an FA. The Filmaker 23:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The section also includes racial controversy and box-office returns, which are categorically very different than fan and critical reaction. Box office, in particular, is a significant topic (particularly given this film's record-setting returns) and deserves more than to be lumped under "Reaction." Vote for some form of sectioning. Happywaffle 18:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

  • I am not saying that the Reaction section only or should only contain information on the critical and fan reaction to the film. The "Reaction" section is for any reaction of any sort. Box office and racial controversy are both reactions to the release of the film. If the paragraph(s) on them should grow into an abundant amount of information, then it would be wise to section them off from the rest of the section. However, at the moment, to section the information off will create small, one paragraph sections that go against the FA criteria. The Filmaker 16:58, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article doesn't capture the disillusionment this film caused to fans

It bears noting that this film virtually destroyed all credibility that George Lucas had with his fans and there was a lot of hostility toward the film from fans. It is an important part of the Star Wars exostory. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.189.242.205 (talk • contribs).

Certain controversies and reactions are covered in the "Reaction" section. Anything more would require a suitable reliable source. — TKD::Talk 11:16, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
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