Talk:Star Wars/Archive 4

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Criticisims

I'm suprised that this very comprehensive article has no section devoted to Star Wars Criticism. I'm sure most wikipedians (like myself) love Star Wars, but there are some substantial negatives that could be included in this article to create a more neutral POV. Excessive marketing/merchandizing and LucasFilm profit motivations (video game and action figure sales, numerous re-releases, ect), racial stereotypes and sexism, moral simplicity, and possible negative impacts on the movie industry are all reasonable criticisms that have been directed towards the films and expanded universe. Although some of these are addressed in individual articles I believe there should be a section for general critique in the main article. Any thoughts?

SimonSayz 19:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Good idea, as long as the criticisms are adequately sourced.CuriousCat 13:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

"Racial stereotypes and sexism" and "profit motivations" will likely lead you down a path toward POV. As for the latter, I'm confused by this need to paint Lucas as a money-grubber for trying to milk the cash cow. Not that it's right, wrong or in-between, but why is this so often pinned on Lucas while turning a blind eye to the rest of, well, anyone in the business world? At least Lucas has something to show for it: the expansion of his business (not personal) empire. The racial stereotypes have been put to bed a long time ago. A passing mention might be included, but I'm against anything that welcomes a host of Lucas-bashing onto this page. I'm no apologist, but he's a pretty broad target, and people tend to go overboard. PacificBoy 20:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

References

Are there any good references, books, etc, for the article? (Verifiably, etc) -- AllyUnion (talk) 19:42, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Any of the LucasArts-backed DK books, including the Inside the Worlds of books, the Visual Dictionaries, and the Incredible Cross Sections, not to mention all of the Essential Guides created for characters, droids, planets, weapons, ships, etc, etc, etc.... -- Riffsyphon1024 19:47, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • One requirement for FA status is to add the Reference Section with books that can be used to back up the article's information. -- AllyUnion (talk) 02:54, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Maybe sources for the themes, inspirations, and the Battlestar lawsuit, as they're the least "common knowledge". Stuff like "Lucas has control over Star Wars" is so well-known that it's almost unsourceable. Or, we could just put the novelizations of each movie as references, but that would kinda be a cop-out.-LtNOWIS
        • Stuff like "Lucas has control over Star Wars" is so well-known that it's almost unsourceable.
          Er...what? There are any number of articles about how much money Lucas has made because he retained the original merchandising and other rights. I'll see what I can find, but it shouldn't be hard. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:44, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
          • "Star Wars: The Magic of Myth," the book that accompanied the Smithsonian exhibit, is an excellent source for what inspired Lucas from a mythological and social standpoint. PacificBoy 20:51, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Cutting stuff

I have removed the "Main film locations" section. These locations are accessible through the individual film pages and not needed here. The article needs to get shorter, and removing lists like this one completely also prevents people from adding their favorite location. Similarly, I have cut the main characters quite a lot. I hope it won't grow too much again. Kusma (talk) 02:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Box office performance section

I have cut the Box office performance section and put it below. My reasoning is as follows:

  • The commentary is quite trivial, and obvious from the table iself.
  • The table is wrong and misleading, since
    • the budget only lists the original budget, not how much was spent on re-releases
    • the adjustment for inflation was made assuming all money was earned in the year of first release, which is not true because of the re-releases
    • Due to widely differing inflation and economic development in different parts of the world (think China in 1977 vs 2005), adjusting the worldwide gross for inflation tells us only how much money Lucas made, nothing about how many people watched the movie.

A table about this issue would have to be more detailed, and would then be confusing, so I just cut it as part of my recent cutting spree. Kusma (talk) 03:13, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

The worldwide box office grosses of each trilogy parallel each other. The first episode of each trilogy generated the highest box office gross, while the middle episode of each trilogy generated the lowest box office gross (without adjustment for inflation). Although the films of the prequel trilogy had higher worldwide box office grosses than the films of the original trilogy, the reverse is true if the figures are properly adjusted for inflation.

No. Title Year Budget (and 2005 equivalent) Worldwide gross (and 2005 equivalent)
I The Phantom Menace 1999 $115,000,000 ($131,000,000) $922,379,000 ($1,052,000,000)
II Attack of the Clones 2002 $120,000,000 ($128,000,000) $648,200,000 ($692,000,000)
III Revenge of the Sith 2005 $113,000,000 ($113,000,000) $847,262,555 ($848,400,000)
IV A New Hope 1977 $11,000,000 ($36,000,000) $797,900,000 ($2,589,000,000)
V The Empire Strikes Back 1980 $18,000,000 ($46,000,000) $533,800,000 ($1,356,000,000)
VI Return of the Jedi 1983 $32,500,000 ($62,000,000) $572,700,000 ($1,094,000,000)

RfC/poll – Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker: one article or two?

What do you think? E Pluribus Anthony 19:35, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

i say one article... its too confusing having two... lol. you could just take the anakin article, then put it right before the vader article and merge them together into one 70.57.199.16 02:33, 2 February 2006 (UTC)starwarsnerd

Well, seeing as how they are the SAME PERSON, I'd say do one article. MasterXiam 15:10, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Re-releases

How about moving this section in its entirety to List of changes in Star Wars re-releases and renaming that page to Changes in Star Wars re-releases or simply Star Wars re-releases? The main Star Wars page could only keep a short paragraph like

Main article: Changes in Star Wars re-releases
The original trilogy was re-released to cinema in 1997 as "Special Editions", including mostly cosmetic, but also controversal changes. Further changes that made the original trilogy more conforming to the prequel trilogy were made for the 2004 DVD editions.

Cutting this section would (I guess) get the page under the magic 32k limit (the Influences and Conception parts could still use some cutting, though). Kusma (討論) 03:30, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. The Wookieepedian 15:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't the film released in 1977 actually called Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and just marketed as Star Wars? Later on, when the Special Edition was released, wasn't it just remarketed under its original correct title? This should be relected in the article. --9 June 2006 Champaign IL

No, and this has been discussed a number of times. The original release did not say "Episode IV" or "A New Hope"; that was added on re-release shortly before Empire came out. PurplePlatypus 07:34, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Midi-clorians vs. midi-chlorians (spelling discussion)

The current WP article on this topic is found at midi-clorians (sic) at the insistence of a user with an early edition of the novelization of The Phantom Menace where the word is supposedly spelled that way. Requesting input in the discussion over what is actually the canonical spelling. Thank you. Rcharman 21:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

im pretty sure its midi-chlorians, and what about commlink? or is it comlink? Starwarsnerd 02:42, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Likewise, fairly sure it's midi-chlorians, comlink is spelled with one m. --Jediarchives11 07:10, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Midi-chlorians is the correct spelling. If you try searching midi-clorians on the Wookiepedia, you won't get anything. --The One 14:05, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

New section

I think that there should be a new section on the general reception of the films. I think that information on the box office earnings needs to be merged into that section. The Wookieepedian 13:19, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

What you've put in there now is redundant and unnecessary... and frankly kind of POV... if anything, this article needs to be PARED DOWN, not needlessly expanded... I'm going to revert it back until you can convince us it needs to be there... TheRealFennShysa 16:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Well, I didn't expect what I added to stay in the form it was. I put it in there to be expanded, because the article as it is does not cover the general reaction to the series. I feel that it needs a section explaining the overall cultural impact. And I'm more of an editor, and not that great of a writer, so I was hoping someone else would do it. What do you suggest? The Wookieepedian 17:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
You should just be bold and start writing! If your writing is not that great, there will be others who will mercilessly edit it until it becomes good enough; after all, this is a wiki! About paring down vs. expanding: I think the length is OK now, just the balance between the lengths of different sections isn't all that great. Kusma (討論) 00:32, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Major characters

I have just deleted this section, because it seems to be unmanageable. It always grows because people add their favorite character or disagree who is indeed major. It also doesn't really seem to be needed in this overview article (the really major people are mentioned in the plot outline anyway). Kusma (討論) 00:29, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I concur. The Wookieepedian 07:15, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Me too. --Dystopos 16:26, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Me too Astroview120mm 00:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Music

Changed classical music to romantic music in the intro and in a couple places in the Music section. If you would like to know why, listen to some Bach(classical period) then Wagner(romantic period) then Williams' original Star Wars music, and you will see which one doesn't belong. In this I wish to promote a more accurate definiton of "classical" and "romantic" music, instead of grouping together all orchestral music as "classical."

I am open to criticism though, so please respond. --Zaorish 04:31, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm a little peeved about the statement that the score for Star Wars brought Williams "international recognition." Jaws not only won the man his (second) Oscar, its theme music is arguably more well-known than that of Star Wars. PacificBoy 23:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

External links

Per Wikipedia:External links, I deleted a lot of the external links that, while related to Star Wars, were really of limited interest. If someone is unfamiliar with Star Wars and is looking it up in Wikipedia, they probably don't care about fanfiction, re-enactment by bunnies, or other minutiae. tregoweth 00:57, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

None of the links in this article focus on the things you listed. Notice I did not revert the film articles (with the exception of restoring the HoloNet link to AOTC), as THEY were the ones that contained all of the unneeded links. Those in this article, however, ARE relevant to the subject. The Wookieepedian 01:43, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

White Supremacy?

Were the imperials like this? You could tell that there's rarely any people of non Anglo-Saxon desent that serve the imperial military.Is this due to that racist humans from star Wars also hated non-white humans as well as hating aliens, or the lack of non-white humans.Answer please.Thanks.

This isn't a discussion board, but I will mention that a number of EU sources, particularly the original (d6, not d20) Star Wars RPG, make much of the Empire having various "racist" policies - strongly preferring humans to the sort of mix we see in Mos Eisley or to a lesser extent the Alliance in RotJ. A little later Timothy Zahn either took this ball and ran with it or independantly came up with the same idea, and it became a minor plot point in the Thrawn Trilogy. This is likely a metaphor for real-world racism. But actual real-world racism on the Empire's part? I doubt it very much; the clonetroopers and presumably later the stormtroopers were cloned from Jango Fett. Jango did not look white to me and the actor who plays him, Temuera Morrison, is part Māori. PurplePlatypus 07:33, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

The predominantly white representation is on both the "rebel" and "imperial" side, the reason is? The films were shot primarily in England which has a very low population of ethnic groups other than "Anglo-Saxon" and as such very few Actors who are not white.

The Concept of the empire being "racist" is largly a fan creation, it is very minimumly seen in the films, there are only 5 NON humans seen serving with the rebels, as opposed to 3 serving the empire, and sporaticly menchioned in a few of the EU books.

Posters

Well, we can have it either way, both represents a uniform set of posters. We have the original theatrical posters, or the posters all done by the same artist. Either choice would be uniform. It's just that I feel that original releases should be represented. The Wookieepedian 19:22, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Like I said, a good idea could be to do a section on posters in general. I think that if they are being used to simply to show the posters, then uniformity is a good idea, ie using the Struzan posters that Lucas has now made the embodiment of the visual packaging of the films. Look, Han may have shot first in my world, but I know that as it stands, Greedo now shoots first. Just because the posters are the newer more stylized versions doesn't make them less signifigant or less descriptive. They are the face of the films as we know them today. AriGold 19:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
    • I agree. But I don't think Lucas really cares about the posters like he does the actual films. I don't think we should have a section on posters, as there are far too many. Maybe we should just take a vote, as either choices would work. The Wookieepedian 19:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
    • I don't claim to know what goes on in his head, but playing Devil's advocate, if he didn't care, he wouldn't have changed them, no? AriGold 19:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
      • Well, this issue was considered when I first put the images in the article. Everyone agreed that the DVD cover art best represents his modern view of the films, and the original theatrical posters represent well the original releases. So, we decided that the DVD covers would go at the bottom of each individual film article, while the theatrical posters would go in each film article infoboxe, and the main page would represent their original release. Not necessarily their original form, just their original release. The Wookieepedian 19:35, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
        • I sincerely apologize if it was debated and agreed to earlier. I went through the discussion archives and did not see a discussion on the issue. I must have missed it. I'll look again. AriGold 19:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
          • It was discussed on the talk pages for ROTJ and ANH, IIRC. The Wookieepedian 19:43, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
            • Ok. I looked again and saw that you added the box on 10/9/05 and it doesnt appear that anyone ever discussed changing them to the Struzan ones here. Only ANH discussions deal with which poster to use, bu they don't reference this page in the discussion. As it stands, I think it works best to have all 6 conforming posters together on this page specifically. How each movie treats the issue is a seperate issue I think. Thanks for being cool about this, a lot of people just flip out when a page they work hard on gets changed on them. AriGold 19:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
              • Very well. I'll resize the pics, however, as they are dispropotional to each other. The Wookieepedian 19:55, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

=

The Port is with you

Here's a weird fact. Just now watched Kind Hearts and Coronets, and between 53 and 54 minutes in, Alec Guinness, playing this time the somewhat demented rector of the church, after both had been drinking, says to Dennis Price, "My Lord, the Port is with you." I had to listen to this three times to get the wording right.

This is eerily close to Obi-Wan Kenobi's comment to Luke Skywalker in Star Wars, "Luke, the Force is with you." One wonders if it is not deliberate. Does it deserve mention in Kind Hearts and Coronets or the Star Wars or the Alec Guinness article? I don't know. Bill Jefferys 02:55, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Not having read the article, I have to say that it would fit best as a mention of a pop culture reference in Kind Hearts and Coronets, if anywhere at all. It's too trivial to belong in the Star Wars article, and it wasn't really a notable accomplishment of Guinness himself.

Oh yeah? Well. Anyways, are you sure it's meanin' a thing equal of the 'spritual entity' the Force is, or just some "the Port" as an object or a place of people or an organization? Coincidences happen ;)--OleMurder 16:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Posters

Someone find a better pic of the posters for the original trilogy. The Special Edition ones suck. Take pics of these ones.

Star Wars-[1] Empire-[2] Jedi- [3] 68.148.12.214 23:16, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

We did have the original ones on the page. But, we decided that the SE posters gave the films box a more unified look and best represented how Lucas now views the films. See the section above. The Wookieepedian 23:25, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

what year is

star wars set in?

Pece Kocovski 11:25, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. The Wookieepedian 13:44, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
And how long is "a long time ago"? — Rickyrab | Talk 06:24, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
The world may never know. :P The Wookieepedian 14:18, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject

Hey, I started a Star Wars wikiproject proposal. Here is the proposal. Deckiller 00:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


--Metallifan 16:20, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

--BLACK DEATH 15:16, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

--Dr. Mahongany 16:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Acting Project Link

User:Deckiller/WikiProject Star Wars - I'll try to get it up and going officially tonight or tomorrow. Deckiller 23:29, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


Re:Holocaust/Star Wars connection

Recently, some users have commented about whether stuff about Nazi Germany should be included in discussions of the Empire. My response - relax. Don't get so uptight about the comparison...

Himmler. Gothic Lolita. neener neener. Nuff said. And, besides, the Emperor DID commit genocide. Alderaan, remember? — Rickyrab | Talk 06:29, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

  • that wasn't genocide it wouldn't be genocide if Hitler started killing regular germans just for being communists I sont think at least i believe it only counts if you kill another culture or religion not just rebels.

"Star Wars: The Magic of Myth," the Smithsonian exhibit, makes much of the comparisons to, if not the Holocaust, then at least Nazism. The fascist soldiers are, after all, called stormtroopers. PacificBoy 21:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Wookies

Is Bigfoot a Wookiee? Some campers heard Bigfoot one night going "GAAAAAA" and "UUUUUUUH". — Rickyrab | Talk 06:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

John Williams Credits

Updated the music section to give John Williams credit for some of his better known stuff than "South Park" and "Ghost Recon Six" both of which I have found no evidence to back up. There isn't even a game titled "Ghost Recon Six".

DarthChucks 21:11, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I suspect "Ghost Recon Six" is a confused intermingling of the computer games "Ghost Recon" and "Rainbow Six", which were produced by the same programming team and are relatively similar in content and style. However, John Williams has nothing to do with either game; the music for both was done by Bill Brown. He's sometimes called "the John Williams of computer games", though. --JaceCady 04:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Religion

There Is Also A Religeon Based Off This Movie. Should That Be Mentioned?

Its A Legally Licensed Religion

http://www.jedichurch.com/5932/home/home.html

The 2004 DVD box picture on the main article

Apparently, the bottom corner of the picture on the Star Wars main article (click here) should say "Digitally Mastered" for the THX logo. The picture says "Digiforce mastered". I own the 2004 DVDs (widescreen by the way), and it doesn't say "Digiforce" but really "Digitally mastered".

I would have to agree that it should be added. Maybe in a Triva section or in a page of the like. But I never knew that before right now, and it's information like the ladder that makes me come to this site so often. 64.231.8.232 11:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC) Elisa Ardell (lledra)

Small suggestions

Nice article. But I think the fan-film section should be trimmed down, at least, the two notable films should be removed, I think there is way too much emphasis on the fanmade films in the article.

Also, the cultural influence section is far too short for something as huge as Star Wars. Don't know what you could write, but I was a little suprised by how short it was. I was looking through flickr and thought this could be useful, [4] in representing the popularity of Star Wars to an extent. The uploader tagged it with a commons license, so if that would look nice, someone might want to add it. Cheers. Cvene64 03:34, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Featured

IMO, if we can get this to featured quality, it should be featured on May 25, 2007. The Wookieepedian 22:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Thats a pretty big if considering how the other Featured nominations went for Star Wars articles :-( Jedi6-(need help?) 22:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the anti-Star Wars/Star Trek wikipedians will jump at the chance to vote it down! :P The Wookieepedian 22:46, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Its more of there beings a sizable number of Wikipedians who believe that a fiction article needs to be 100% out of universe perspective. Jedi6-(need help?) 22:50, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, that's the problem. An article about about a fictional subject can't be written to be 100% out of universe because... well... it's fictional. I mean what are you going to say? "Palpatine is the name given to a group of pixels on a theater screen/television playing a specific film/DVD. Due to the interpretation of light which bounces off of these pixels and enters the human eyes, the pixels appear to the human to be a man. These group of pixels represent a group of words (which is actually stylized ink/lead on a piece of paper or a screen) originally written by the completely real person George Lucas and performed by the real actor Ian McDiarmid,, that the human eye interprets as words, which they in turn read together, which produces a type of thought in the human brain that seems reallistic to the particular human..." The Wookieepedian 23:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't be so reductionist. It's possible to handle Star Wars articles (or any fictional articles, for that matter) from an out-of-universe perspective, by focusing on placing fictional elements in a real-world context. (Even if it never gets policy-fied, User:BrianSmithson/Writing about fiction is worth a read.) In this case, I don't see any section that falls into the trap of being too in-universe, unlike, say, Palpatine. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:31, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I know. I was being sarcastic. :P The Wookieepedian 18:55, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Sadly sarcasm doesn't translate well into writing. Thats why I always add (sarcasm) to my messages. :P But this article does have the potential to be featured. Maybe I'll do that this summer....Jedi6-(need help?) 04:40, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I doubt there is any agenda that is out to get this article at the FAC - to be honest, the article just is not good enough. Something like Star Wars just really demands a much better article. Cvene64 12:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
This article has too many lists at the end. In addition, he seems messy to me a little. There are many subsections under a few generic terms. And the language and the expression is still that one of a fan. We should a little copy the German Star Wars article, this one is very well and really beautifully jointed in my opinion. It is the advantage over the German side that we may use more pictures. Why isn't this used? One should insert pictures which have to do with the films less and more describe the genesis. I have in addition noticed that the plot is hardly mentioned. If I liked to ask about the topic as a newcomer, I must read ten pages till I know at all about what it is. Until there I have already read all concepts which nobody explained to me until there. What is the deathstar, what the Jedi and the republic? For an article which would like to include the complete topic I expect a proper text. A text which isn't instructed on links but can describe the topic high-handedly. In this regard the German article should be our example. Best wishes 172.173.184.203 13:02, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

2006 re-releases

  • It is evident that since this article has a section that describes all the re-releases, that a DVD re-release of the original films is worthy of note. When this information has been added, it has been reverted with the explanation that this news belongs in the "A New Hope" article. I disagree and invite discussion here rather than continued reverting. --Dystopos 13:18, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
    • In my opinion, individual DVD releases should be noted on the List of changes in Star Wars re-releases page and/or the individual films articles. Listing every single release here (as the page once did) would go beyond just giving an overview as the intent of the article is. The Wookieepedian 13:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
      • It is evidently considered by many of Wikipedia's editors to be a major release. In fact, it is the first DVD release of the films which are the primary subject of the article. I think you should reconsider your personal stand in light of Wikipedia's policy own ownership of articles. --Dystopos 15:06, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
        • I am fully aware that no one has ownership of any article. I'm only looking out for it. I welcome the release of these films just as much as anyone else, but I've noticed that every time there is a new DVD release, a group of anons continue to add it to the page. The thing is, the originals have been released many times before in other formats. DVD is simply another format and will soon be overtaken by HD discs. Perhaps it is not my opinion that should be of concern, but the biased (purist/nostalgic) stance of the many who continually add this information to the article without looking at its actual importance. The Wookieepedian 16:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
          • Perhaps that's what it is, but that's what we do here unless a consensus emerges to do otherwise. --Dystopos 23:13, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

part of the page dissapeared...

The sections after the feature films disappeared. Where'd it go?Ollie the Magic Skater 01:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Looked like an editing mistake. I just reverted. — Larry V (talk) 02:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Re-templating for WikiProject Films

Hopefully no one will mind if I remove the tag "V0.5|class=GA|category=Socsci", as it seems to block the article's inclusion into the Wikifilm Project's GA category. --P-Chan 00:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, because you removed it from the Version 0.5 log. Titoxd(?!?) 04:24, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I readded it because it's important, thanks Jaranda wat's sup 04:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Wookieepedia and usability

I note that the link to Wookieepedia is now via the corresponding template. Some would argue that this is less usable, but other find duplication irritating. It is a matter of judgement... Also: because the pattern is not simply using Template:wikia, new users who know about Wikia will not immediately recognize that the Star Wars Wikia and Wookipedia are the same. They will figure it out soon enough, but it is not obvious. -- 67.121.112.202 00:28, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

2007 Star Wars Saga Box Set

Does anyone else believe the rumours that Lucas is making even more changes to both trilogies for the upcoming Saga box set. I've heard rumours that he's filming new scenes for A New Hope portraying the Emperor dissolving the Senate and Bail Organa's last moments on Alderaan before the Death Star destroys. More A New Hope rumours include a scene with Darth Vader returning to Coruscant at the end to visit the Emperor and his duel with Obi-Wan more CGI. As for The Empire Striked Back will 've heard he will replace the Yoda puppet with a CGI Yoda to make him look more consistent and another revision of the scene between the Emperor and Darth Vader on the Executor. And also more Battle of Hoth scenes.

As for the Prequels? I'd say for Attack Of The Clones Lucas should re-insert the raid on the Droid Control Ship. For Revenge Of The Sith put back in the rebellion scenes (makes sense to see Mon Mothma in her early years and the birth of the resistence that opposes the Emperor on such a large scale in the original triology) and Yoda landing on Dagobah.

Those would all be awesome, but unfortunately I doubt they will happen. :( The Wookieepedian 14:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Not even Lucas would dare replace CGI Yoda, especcialy after claiming that he has such respect for Frank Oz's puppetry. He even tried to get it nominated for an Oscar, but, well, we all know the Academy's viewpoint on Lucas. ....(Complain)(Let us to it pell-mell) 06:56, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I can definitely see ROTS extended a lot. However, the whole point of CG Yoda was to make him closer to Oz's puppet: the replacement will be in TPM.

Expect anything and any changed:

"Lucas on B&W films "Classic films should not be altered from thier original format, adding color is altering the original art. Films should remain as they were originaly released so as to preserve thier artisit statement"

Clearly he changed his mind he may have changed his mind about a great many things.

Okay, this is not a Star Wars rumor mill/forum. I recommend that you find someplace else to hold this discussion. Please keep the talk page limited to discussion of the article and actual issues revolving around its editting and not some rumor someone heard from some site somewhere. -Thebdj (Also Sign your messages)

Why is this semi protected?

See title.Ollie the Magic Skater 02:33, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

The saga is not over yet.

Why isn't the seventh film mentioned? "Star Wars Episode Zero: Balance of the Force" is already in the make with minor computer-FX job. Between Darth Plaguesis and young Kvi-Gong, you'll understand the dark and light sides of the force are not that strictly separated. You will learn why Anakin came to be. By the end you will know why making of ep7-9 is inevitable.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.70.32.136 (talk • contribs).

Yes please read the above link. It also sounds like a fan film or the comment at least sounds like a promotion of a fan film, which I wouldn't doubt. --Tenric 20:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It's Supershadow. He's a well known fraud amongst Star Wars fans. ....(Complain)(Let us to it pell-mell) 05:33, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Is Clone Wars and Knights of the Old Republic G-Canon?

I see Clone Wars and Knights being cited a lot by fans. I'm wondering if they are G-Canon, considering Lucas did involve himself lightly in the former. Wiki-newbie 12:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Weasel/Dr. Who/Wha?

"Some people also consider that Darth Vader's appearance is similar to the Ice Warriors from long running SCI-FI series Doctor Who, this is due to the fact that the Ice Warriors share a similar dome shaped helmet and also the same voice patterns when they breathe. This is also coupled with the fact that the Ice Warriors were introduced into the show in 1967, the same time when Lucas was designing Star Wars"

Gotta say, I don't know where to begin dismantling this. 1) Any resemblance between Vader and the Ice Warriors is extremely tenuous at best; 2) Star Wars wasn't a glint in Lucas' eye in 1967; 3) Dr. Who wasn't shown in the US until the late 1970s; 4) Vader's appearance was primarily based on samurai helmet, fine-tuned at Lucas' suggestion by Ralph McQuarrie.

Finally, again, WHO ARE "SOME PEOPLE"???

I'm deleting it.

PacificBoy 23:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The original trilogy and the prequel trilogy are two different trilogies and I think they should be listed as such, instead of listing the movies in chronological order.

GA Re-Review and In-line citations

Note: This article has a small number of in-line citations for an article of its size and subject content. Currently it would not pass criteria 2b.
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 04:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Episode 7,8 and 9?

This is official, and not some rumor! George Lucas said it himself.

Take a look at this! Warning: This spoils the whole plot outline of the films!

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/episode7/plot.html

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/episode8/plot.html

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/episode9/plot.html

I hope they make them... Aero Flame 12:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Very old fan-fiction I believe. Wiki-newbie 12:42, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Yup - that's been around the traps for ages. --Merbabu 12:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Such things have been rumoured for many years. It's not confirmed and is just fans specteculation. I will be glad if they were to make it, but it doesn't look like it. --Terence Ong (T | C) 13:30, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Supershadow is a fake. When I first saw it I thought it was real too, but it's nothing but a lie. So please do not put it on the page.A7X 900 19:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Star Trek and Star Wars

star trek and star wars Whenever I look either Star trek or Star wars on the wekipedia,it labels Star trek as "science fiction" and Star Wars as "science fantesy". This is absoloutly absurd. Infact,wekipedia has got the two switched.

The elements used in Star Trek are pure fantesy such as time travel,a god-like being known as Q who has unlimited abilities,teleportation,weapons that can send planets milions of years into the past,seazing them from existence or weapons that can destroy matter(which directly goes against the laws of physics). Take anyone of these elements and each rules out the concept of Star Trek being science fiction.

Star Wars on the other hand has none of these elements. Infact,Star Wars carries none of the false elements used in Star Trek. In Star Wars they have used technology of which a few are available today and technical terms borrowed from real life technology such as "laser" or "proton" whereas in Star Trek,fictional words have been created to sound like real life words such as "phaser"(to replace laser). Some technology used in Star Wars is being used today such as robots,though not as sophisticated. Laser guns are used today to cut through metal(also used in Star Wars) but obviously unable to have rappid fire. Bacically most of the technology in Star Wars today is non-existent,but each still carries a sceintific theory behind it just as the theory of flight existed long before humans took to the skies.

Regarding the "force" which has been the main contribution into classyfying Star Wars as "science fantesy",people who have followed the Star Wars saga should know that this energy field is generated by by mediclaurians(a fictional term,but with explanation).

The organisms in the Star Wars universe possess these microscopic life-forms in their system that allow them to conduct the energy known as "the force". It basically reflects on scince inour world. For example,why are electric eels able to produce electricity around their body while sharks are not?The answer is their bodies are equipped with capacitors as oppossed to sharks.In the same way,the users of the force(both and Jedi and Sith)are contained with enough medichlorians to produce enough energy waves to push around heavy objects.

The simple reason it's been classified as "science fantesy" as oppossed to Star Trek is it lacks in scientific terms whereas Star Trek is filled with made-up scientific(or so-called "scientific terms"). Most of the technology used in Star Wars may not be available today or probably even centuries from now,but to say Star Trek is "more realistic" than Star Wars is pure ignorance. Nadirali 03:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Star Trek is about fictional science and has (or set) many of the sci-fi tropes, whereas Star Wars has fantasy tropes in a sci-fi setting. That said, this isn't a general purpose discussion board, but instead a place to discuss improving the article. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

improving articles?

If this is just about improving articles,then why are people just opening topics on Star Wars randomly? And how can Star Trek be considered scientific? Man in block has made the general statement without even explaining it.

Well, I look at it this way with the whole science vs fantasy thing (don't quote me on it): Science fiction has things that could possibly happen now or in the future but are fiction since they are not happening. Now with fantasy, those are things that are extremely unlikely or impossible to occur, like the force exsisting, it's more of a fantasy-like setting, I don't know if that confuses you more or not. As for people bringing up random SW topics, that happens no matter if it's supposed to or not. Darthgriz98 15:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

ST is fantasy

I don't want to sound too agressive here,but people are ignoring the points I made aobut Star Trek being fantasy compared to SW. Read them before you answer. And as for posting random articles on the subject of Star Wars:if everyone can do it then so can I.

I appologize, re-reading through your arguments you do make a good point, as for the anyone can post random things, we really discourage that, people do it yes, but they shouldn't. And by the way, your topic wasn't a random SW thing like "SW rocks!", those are the random things we discourage on talk pages, things not related to the article. I can see that your's relates to the article. I also see we have conflicting views on fantasy and science, which is fine I was only voicing my opinion. Darthgriz98 17:01, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

thanks

Thanks for the warm words Darthgliz

my interesting discovery

Before I start,I apologise for being so naggy on the subject of Star Wars being more scientific than Star Trek,but I seem to have made an interesting connection between math and physics,although sceintists and mathamatitions know this already,it is new to me.

Back to the subject of reducing matter into vacume(or absoloutely nothing but empty space)with the help of anti-matter as theorized in Star Trek is a physical/mathamatical impossibility.

I will now prove my theory:

In Star Trek,matter is reduced to nothing by a phaser weapon armed with "anti-matter". In sceince,according to Einstien,matter can be transformed into energy,but if Im not mistaken,that's quite different from reducing matter to vacume.

This physical impossibility can be translated into the math formula: X is any random number you want to choose,wheather decimal or whole number.

X/0 = error. Try it on a calculator and substitute X by any number you desire.

Now coming to back that Star Trek theory of reducing matter to vacume using the "anti-matter" phaser weapon,we can apply the formula.

X is the number of the solid object(s). 0 is the "anti-matter" the phaser weapon is armed with because as we all know zero is nothing. You try to reduce the number of the solid object(s) using nothing into nothing and the formula shows it's a physical/mathamatical impossibility.

Correct me if Im wrong because Im not the best student in science or math. My basic point is numbers are there to reperesent anything from distance to solid objects.By dividing numbers(except in the use of 0),you can never get an answer of zero in division.Basically,keep braking down matter,and you find you can never reduce it to nothing. If anyone wants to make a comment please do so.Just do not accusse me of turning this Star Wars discussion into a science lecture as discussing the science of Star Wars is talking about a part of Star Wars itself.Nadirali 20:17, 26 October 2006 (UTC)Nadirali

Thanks(-ish). --EEMeltonIV 20:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Is Darth Vader German?

In Star Wars: Episode V; we learn that Darth Vader is Luke's father. Is it possible that the name Vader connects with the German word for father; Vater? The two are very similar, with Vater meaning father, and Darth Vader being Luke's father. Ponder that.

also Darth sounds like "dark". Read this [5]--Merbabu 13:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Infobox

Shouldn't this article (and it's related articles) have an infobox? I'm thinking something like found on.... well.... Star Trek, or even at Template:Christianity. Jhamez84 23:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

A message to the filmaker

I am adressing the Film maker regarding the editing those articles on Star Wars.

You may like calling Star Wars science fantasy,but due to the reasons that Star Wars contains none of the fantasy elements that STar Trek does it would be invalid to do so. Your opinion is giving me the hint that you are a Trekkie.I have already argues with my fellow Star Wars fans and other Trekies about this topic(check the articles written above)

So it's been voted as "sceince fantasy" regarding the so-called "prequel trilogy".But that's a seperate trilogy all together.I am only speaking of the originals. First off,where did you get this word?I checked 3 online dictionaries for this word and found nothing.Did you make up this word by any chance? And second,your article states that it's a saga.Star Wars is more than just a saga.It's an entire universe,ocnsisted of the saga,spin-offs,novels comics etc.

If you have viwed any of the actual Star Wars movies on DVD,they are rated PG-13 for SCIENCE FICTION violence.

If Mr Lucas would like it to be known as "science fantasy",then his company should stop producing the technical journals,the technical encyclopedias or anything that tries to rationlize the technology of Star Wars.

Please understand that I have already discussed the realism of Star Wars as compared to star trek.Star Trek has been proven to be fantasy by engineer Micheal Wong as well as explained the science of Star Wars(visit his site http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Myths/Myths_ST.html) ,whereas the technical commentries of STar Wars are written by Dr Curtis Auxtin who has a PHD in astrophysics.

Star Wars is SCIENCE FICTION

Thankyou.

this was a response

Listen,I did not re-start the topic again.Im done discussing the reality of Star Wars.I was messaged by this guy called the Filmmaker not to edit Star Wars as science fiction. He asked me to respond on the message board and here I am. I simply wrote that because I was told by the guy called "the Filmmaker" to post my arguements so here I am. I am not here to start a fight or anything.

Response to Nadirali

Alright, first I'd like to mention that I only just now found your arguments as I asked you to post them in the talk page of one of the film articles, however we can make due with this. I'd like to address your........ accusation? that I am a Trekkie. I am not, I have never even seen a full episode or film from the Star Trek universe. Lucas has also referred to it as "space fantasy", however he has been contesting the title of "science fiction" for much longer than he has allowed it. The general media has, yes, labeled the film as science fiction. Only because is easily mistaken for it because of it's space setting and use of technology beyond this world. This is why it has been nominated for awards and received ratings with titles featuring the words "science fiction" or "sci-fi". However, can you really contest that the award committee would invent a new category, such as "Best Science Fantasy Film" when only one such film was released that year? Star Wars is considered science fantasy because of it's use of fantasy mythologies established by Joseph Campbell is his book "Hero with a Thousand Faces", by taking themes that run across almost all great fantasy stories and putting them in a scientifically advanced setting. You can read more about it in the A New Hope article.

Responding with facts.

Alright,I will respond here with facts,that is placing my opinions aside to validate my arguemnts.

FACT-People who write articles on wekipedia write the articles on their perspective of things such as history or cetain issues.

FACT-Majority votes do not impact the belifs of all people(otherwise they would be "majority votes" would they?it would be all to nothing)Such as 1+1=2.If the majority of the world voted 1+1=5 it would not really be that way just because the majority sees it in that way.

FACT-wekipedia is a nuetral site and respects every person's perspective of an issue,whather majority or not.If it's not doing this then it's not neutral at all.

FACT-When you make a general statement and contradict yourself,people cannot prove which mesage you are trying to validate.Geroge Lucas has stated that Star Wars is between science fiction and fantasy,so why then publish all those technical journals,encyclopedias,novels in which the scince of Star Wars is explained?Trying to rationalise the technology in Star Wars(even the force through the "medichlorians")would be Lucas contradiciting himself?And while he does contradict himself,it remains undecided what his view on STar Wars is.

FACT-Star Wars movies on DVD are ranked PG-13 for SCIENCE FICTION violence.Check it yourself if you don't belive me.

Prove any one of these wrong and I'll shut my wekipedia account.

Thankyou

  • Alright let's see.

"FACT-People who write articles on wekipedia write the articles on their perspective of things such as history or cetain issues."

Wrong, otherwise all articles would be NPOV. Editors of Wikipedia attempt to present all perspectives and allow the reader to decide for themselves. Before you scream about us not including your opinion. Please read on.

"FACT-Majority votes do not impact the belifs of all people(otherwise they would be "majority votes" would they?it would all to nothing)Such as 1+1=2.If the majority of the world voted 1+1=5 it would not really be that way just because the majority sees it in that way.


Wikipedia is a democracy. You're fundamentally saying that the majority of people here are voting that 1+1=5 because the prequel articles have been voted through FA. And how do you know this? You sound to be more of pursuer of truthiness than the truth itself. On Wikipedia, truth is derived from consensus.

"FACT-wekipedia is a nuetral site and respects every person's perspective of an issue,whather majority or not.If it's not doing this then it's not neutral at all."

Yes and no. There is the factor notability. The information on Wikipedia is only allowed if it is from credible source, it is not a place for your "cool ideas". As of right now, all of your opinions are original research that is not eligible.

"FACT-Star Wars has not been proven to be a true story.Wheather it happend "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" or not is unproven so there are no "facts" regarding Star Wars.Every man is free to hold their vision of the story such as the famous "Han shoots first" issue."

Yes, they are, but not every man's vision is notable enough to be written about on Wikipedia.

"FACT-When you make a general statement and contradict yourself,people cannot prove which mesage you are trying to validate.Geroge Lucas has stated that Star Wars is between science fiction and fantasy,so why then publish all those technical journals,encyclopedias,novels in which the scince of Star Wars is explained?Trying to rationalise the technology in Star Wars(even the force through the "medichlorians")would be Lucas contradiciting himself?And while he does contradict himself,it remains undecided what his view on STar Wars is."

His view on Star Wars, as he has stated in many interviews is that it is "science fantasy" or a variation that term, not science fiction. The technical journals and encyclopedias are merely another form of marketing that Lucas takes advantage (at rightfully so in my own POV). Again, this is your own original research and point of view that is not notable on it's own. If you find a source, such as newspaper article or a book dealing with issue itself, than it will become notable enough for Wikipedia. Better yet, write the book yourself.

"FACT-Star Wars movies on DVD are ranked PG-13 for SCIENCE FICTION violence.Check it yourself if you don't belive me."

I don't know what to tell you. This is probably the closest you've gotten to an actual argument for why the films should be considered science fiction. However, that is the MPAA's classification, not George Lucas'. I've never researched, but I believe that MPAA has set titles for these ratings and therefore they most likely classified it as science fiction violence because of it's setting in space and futuristic technology, not based on cinematic mythology. The Filmaker 19:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


Look here,I don't portray myself to be a persuer of truth than truth itself. So just because it has a small mythology in it the whole trilogy gets dumped into the "science fantasy" box?It is star trek that has been propagated as "science fiction" because of the abuse of scientific theories by Trekkies.Check out Micheal Wong's site.http://66.39.46.41/Empire/Tech/Myths/Myths_ST.html He's a certified engineer and proves this propaganda about "Star Trek" being the future and helps in rationlizing the technology of Star Wars. Infact because in Star Trek,they make-up so much real sounding "science", it has been labelled as "Science fiction" in the popular media.When it contains pure magical elements portrayed to be real science.

"setting in space and futuristic technology"-(your quote) Careful with the words you use.That's what I mean when I say condradicting one's self. Your now indrectly saying that Star Wars is science fiction by using words such as "futerestic technology".As does Lucas when he rationalizes the technology of Star Wars in directors commentry on the DVDs as well as the books.

As for perspectives.Wekipedia does use words like "white superemicists" on people who do not view themselves as white supremicists at all or the history ofthe Muhajir population of Pakistan,when the writer sometimes has no idea what he/she is talking about.I have read articles on those and attempted to correct them.And yet-it's posted.This is what I mean that it's written on the writers perspective.Some of the sources themselves are opinions-mixed with un-proven facts.

I'll agree on one thing though:This is niether the time nor the place. I've got better things to do.

  • Okay, please stop creating a new section for every response you have. However, if you are done discussing the subject, that is fine as long as you do not change any Star Wars related articles again to reflect your personal view of it being science fiction.

As for me,my statements are based on FACTS that I clearly provided.

Since wekipedia is a neutral site we can place the classification of Star Wars as science fantasy/science fiction as disputed.

LET IT END THERE Since I think neither one of us is going to back down.

My apologies to the film maker.I have been expressing my view in a sort of a "jerky" attitude.I hope I have not hurt your feelings and didn't meant to sound so personal. You can go on editing the Star Wars article as I really don't care.You'll know it's science fiction,I'll know it,Dr Micheal Wong will know it. http://66.39.46.41/toc.html Dr Curtis Auxill will know it and so on....

I still contest that Star Wars is science fiction. It does feature a "little mythology" as you stated, it was in fact based off of mythology. This "science fantasy/science fiction (disputed)" will not work as discussions are not to be carried over into articles. As of right now, I believe that you should leave the articles alone until the dispute has been settled and give the original version the benefit of the doubt especially since it has been passed the FAC. The Filmaker 02:54, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

No my friend,I still am sorry for being so harsh and as I stated it's against my nature to be so impolite when it is totally unecessary,but I still stand by my claim that Star Wars is science fiction.

I know the storyline is based mythology as stated in the documentry DVD but "because of it's setting in space and futuristic technology" as you said,infact makes it science fiction.

Simply by using terms as stated above,your indirectly saying Star Wars is science fiction.That contradict your first claim that it's science fantasy,which is not the same thing.

As for people writing articles on their own perspective,I also stand by that claim. As for "my cool ideas",it wasn't a very nice thing.If what I have said are "cool ideas",then you are also saying all those technical journals are "cool ideas",Dr Curtis Saxton's tehnical comentries on Star Wars are "cool ideas". http://theforce.net/swtc/

Michael WOng himself leads discussions on wekipedia on the realism of Star Trek and Star Wars. http://66.39.46.41/Empire/Tech/Myths/Myths_ST.html So much for his "cool ideas".

And "we wekipedians" is not appropriate .I am a PART of wekipedia as long I hold an account.I have read many articles and am not the only one to disagre with them.Why don't I give an example? The history of Pakistan,or it's or on the discrimination of it's muhajir population is biased and simply written on the author's perspective.Since I am from Pakistan,it would be a joke for you or the author who writes these incorrect articles to say that I know less about my country then the author(s). My main point is wekepdia does not contain facts on all issues.Really,autheor's here have been posting what they desire and people have a right to correct them.That's why i feel i have the right to challenge author's if articles are inaccurate. "Having heard how horrible a resource Wikipedia is for students, I decided to scope things" outhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EEMeltonIV

I have already stated my arguements to you,but you refuse to accept them.So it really has fallen to what you want to except as fact,even though you know it is.

Just keep in mind,there are no facts when an event(s) in a fictional story is disputed. Star Wars is an example.

  • Once again, please stop making a new section for every response you have.

"I know the storyline is based mythology as stated in the documentry DVD but "because of it's setting in space and futuristic technology" as you said,infact makes it science fiction."

So every film or story that is set in space with futuristic technology is automatically "science fiction"? It's generalizations like this that resulted in the media originally categorizing the film series as "science fiction" they've since corrected themselves.

"Simply by using terms as stated above,your indirectly saying Star Wars is science fiction.That contradict your first claim that it's science fantasy,which is not the same thing."

You are twisting my words to make it sound as though I believe Star Wars is science fiction. I will state this now as I have many times before, I don't believe that Star Wars is science fiction.

"As for people writing articles on their own perspective,I also stand by that claim."

Than you cannot comprehend how Wikipedia editors write.

"As for "my cool ideas",it wasn't a very nice thing.If what I have said are "cool ideas",then you are also saying all those technical journals are "cool ideas",Dr Curtis Saxton's tehnical comentries on Star Wars are "cool ideas". http://theforce.net/swtc/"

"Cool ideas" was just a link to a wikipedia policy under that name. The point was that your beliefs are original research that you developed yourself, on your own. The technical commentaries are not "cool ideas" because they have a source. I'm saying your use of these technical commentaries is original research. The idea that certain technologies in Star Wars could be possible has long been discussed, it seems the same with Star Trek. However this does not qualify either series to be considered science fiction. It is the story structure and mythology behind the film. Just because a film features a knife, does not mean the film is slasher film. Genre's are categorized by their storyline, not the content itself.

"Michael WOng himself leads discussions on wekipedia on the realism of Star Trek and Star Wars. http://66.39.46.41/Empire/Tech/Myths/Myths_ST.html So much for his "cool ideas"."

See above, I have no problem with the references that say that the realism of Star Wars has been discussed. I'm stating that your beliefs have been based on them, however they still your own personal beliefs and are therefore original research.

"And "we wekipedians" is not appropriate .I am a PART of wekipedia as long I hold an account.I have read many articles and am not the only one to disagre with them.Why don't I give an example? The history of Pakistan,or it's or on the discrimination of it's muhajir population is biased and simply written on the author's perspective.Since I am from Pakistan,it would be a joke for you or the author who writes these incorrect articles to say that I know less about my country then the author(s). My main point is wekepdia does not contain facts on all issues.Really,autheor's here have been posting what they desire and people have a right to correct them.That's why i feel i have the right to challenge author's if articles are inaccurate. "Having heard how horrible a resource Wikipedia is for students, I decided to scope things" outhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EEMeltonIV

Yes it's true that most of wikipedia is written by the editor's own perspective, and features no sources whatsoever. This is a problem, however these articles are symmetrical with the three featured articles and this fact of genre has been voted through all three times. I am unsure of when I ever referred to myself or others as "we wikipedians".

"I have already stated my arguements to you,but you refuse to accept them.So it really has fallen to what you want to except as fact,even though you know it is."

No, I contest your arguments. I do not have a problem with accepting your facts as the only facts you have shown me are some links to the fact that the realism and technology inside Star Wars has been discussed. However, your personal belief that Star Wars is science fiction has never been stated on the record by a specific source. I however could find many different sources that refer to Star Wars and "science fantasy" or variate on it.

WTF --Haizum 05:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
If you haven't got a productive comment or anything to say other than one abbreviation on the entire discussion. Please, move right along. The Filmaker 05:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

No,Im done discussing however,if you wish to speak to me privately man to man on this,let me know and I'll give you my MSN adress.

I will not, as I do not have MSN messenger and I am not willing to install an entire messenger to speak to you about this matter. This will do fine. How is this not "man to man"? The Filmaker 16:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay that's fine we dont have to talk.Talking live would be talking man to man rather than leaving a bunch of messages that we end up sometimes misunderstanding each other.

Skimming this discussion (I haven't read all of it, but it appears that, at this point, you two are arguing the same points over and over), it seems that The Filmmaker is arguing that Star Wars should be classified as science fantasy based on Lucas' authorial intentionality, whereas Nadirali/74.98.240.170 asserts that there is evidence that other people view SW as science fiction. If a reliable source can be cited that explicitly argues (preferably not just labels, since it might tread too close to original research to say that the label was in contrast to science fantasy) that Star Wars (not Star Trek) is science fiction instead of science fantasy, then WP:NPOV requires that both views be presented. Where there is controversy, the author doesn't really have special privileges as to how to interpret what was made. Sure, we can say what was intended, and that's an important viewpoint, but it's not the only one, or possibly even the prevalent one. If the classification is disputed in reliable sources, then we should avoid unilaterally favoring one position over another, although a simplistic compromise like "science fiction / science fantasy" is very awkwardly worded in the context of other prose. — TKD::Talk 03:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
and where does the term Space Opera fit into all of this? ;-)--Merbabu 03:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I think you both need to stop putting out facts, take a deep breath, relax. Then, find proof, hard soild proof, that it is either science fiction or fantasy. Now that DOES NOT mean you think it's that way because of the technology, blah, blah, blah, or that's what George Lucas says. You need to find it, and cite it. This is how it works on the music artist pages and is what I suggested to the dispute on Taking Back Sunday and My Chemical Romance. You need to find some article may it be from a book or the internet proving that it is science fiction or fantasy. No more he said she said, the fans said, George Lucas said. And no more tangents either. Maybe if you two colaborated you could find the solultion? Just a suggestion. But it is painful to see this arguement every time I go to this talk page. Darthgriz98 03:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Maybe this page could be archived, and they could carry our their critical (cough) discussion somewhere else. it's annoying for the rest of us.--Merbabu 03:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Star Wars being "science fantasy",I have reason to belive that you simply made up the word(technically speaking,it is a "cool idea"),with the meaning pulled out of words from scientists,but twisted to suit your meaning for the made-up word.I looked it up on 3 different dictionaries and found no meaning for the word.Really if you observe the word it sounds like an oxymoron. Just by taking a theme from a story and classying the genre of the story based on the theme is misinformative.And please by saying Star Wars is a saga rather than a universe is strongly misinfomative.All those books,spin-offs,cartoons.What were they if not Star Wars? An example have you seen "the exorcism of emily rose".Well its about a girl who dies at the hands of a priest who belived she was possessed by evil spirits,while the lawyer who prosecuted him charged that she was ill.The theme of the film is a message to the audiance what they want to beleive.Proof of this can clearly be heard in the directors commentry on the DVD version of the film as well as in the interview in the special features section.So therfor its been classified as mystery-but thats not the end of it.It contains frightening,disturbing and violent scenes,therefor its classified as mytery/horror/thriller/drama and not just as mystery. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0404032/

mythology is not always associated with fantasy.Just like the battle of troy is a mythology story,but not classified as fantasy.Harry potter is fantasy because it contains magic but its not mythology. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0332452/

But I really dont care,I was just trying to inform you of the fact that Star Wars is science fiction/mythology.People dont really rely on wekipedia as they charge that articles are really written to suit the authors satisfaction and not written as matter-of-fact.

With this I close the discussion premaently.If you have a last message,leave it for me on this talk page. Thankyou -Nadirali

Thank goodness. --EEMeltonIV 04:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, stop creating new sections and disrupting this page. Take it somewhere else.--Merbabu 04:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../s/t/a/Talk%7EStar_Wars_Archive_4_8c30.html"