Talk:Stanford University/Archive 1

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Contents

Municipal association

Stanford U. is not in Palo Alto! All addresses direct to "Stanford, CA" and not "Palo Alto, CA". --Jiang 20:43, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Stanford, CA is NOT a city as explained in the article. I would like to see some confirmation and proof otherwise. Kowloonese 06:18, 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Ok, my bad then...the article used to call it a "town" and someone changed it not too long ago without me noticing... --Jiang 06:21, 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Headers

Jiang, would you please revert your addition of headers to the Stanford University article? I spent a long time tonight on a complete rewrite and I put the things were they were for a reason. It had a nice flow and logical coherence after I was done, and now it does not. Let's let the page grow a bit more, organically, before we chop it up. Thank you in advance. jengod 08:11, Jan 17, 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately, our dictators have decided that the table of contents should go above the first header, thus forcing us to limit our introduction to a paragraph or two. Sooner or later, all that content above what was in the first header needs to be broken up into sections. Why not start now? The page is long enough for a TOC to be useful. Wouldn't starting now allow time for logical coherence to be established? How would more content prevent headers from breaking the flow? The Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities template could be applied too. --Jiang 08:16, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Looking at it again, I don't think I did much damage to the flow. Why should campus landmarks be separated from the paragraph on the physical campus by a discussion of the number of undergraduates? Is the band part of the athletic dept? --Jiang 08:20, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Seriously dude, this page was a wasteland for a really long time. I just gave it some soul. Don't force a template on it, don't make it make sense, don't build a TOC where one currently doesn't need to be. This page doesn't need you right now. It's fine. Please leave it alone. AND YES, THE BAND *IS* PART OF THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT. jengod 08:21, Jan 17, 2004 (UTC)
Are you a Stanfurd student or alum? --Jiang
Why yes, I am. Does that disqualify me from contributing to this article? jengod 08:25, Jan 17, 2004 (UTC)
No, I'm just trying to figure out why, rather than explaining why I violated the "logical coherence" of your text (part of my edit which you later partly restored), you ignored the issue, tried to establish possession of this article, and asked me to leave this article alone. --Jiang 09:27, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Alumni list

What is the logic behind the ordering of the alumni list? Or is there none? The degree and year should be added. --Jiang

Rankings & Reputation

Hi, I have reverted the page back to last edit. Some people seem to feel that anything that damages the school's reputation should not be placed here, even if it's true. Please recognize that Wikipedia articles should be neutral. Therefore, both positive and negative aspects of the school should be written. In this most recent case, Jengod decided that the comment "Stanford ranks lower than Harvard, Yale, and Princeton in U.S. News Rankings" to somehow be a violation or vandalous. This is a fact, and there is nothing wrong with stating it as such.

The comment was a crack at Stanford's ranking, deliberately inserted by a Yale IP address into the first sentence of a long article, in an attempt to make Stanford look bad. The presentation of facts can be manipulated to influence opinion almost as well as opinionated writing. silsor 02:42, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)
"Although Stanford students often refer to their school as the "Harvard of the West", for the past 10 years it has consistently ranked below Harvard, Yale and Princeton in the U.S. News and World Report annual college rankings." I reverted because it was denigrating and useless, but provide me a table of USNewsWorldReport undergrad and grad schools rankings for Stanford, Yale, Princeton and then Harvard. If it turns out to be true, which I suspect it is not, then surely add it in. It definitely won't start a ranking war amongst college rivals throughout the U.S. Also, a quick look at the edit history of Acorn and the IP address that made the origin edits reveals a very short Wikipedian history almost all of which is devoted to dismissing "lower Ivies" and promoting the prestige of Yale-Harvard-Princeton. All of which are damn fine institutions, but this is not a college fair, this is an encyclopedia. jengod 02:56, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)
"Stanford ...[is] one of the most prestigious [universities] in the world" is as NPOV as such things get. Does anyone doubt it's true? It's not even saying 'top thousand', much less 'more prestigious than Reed College'. --wwoods 08:22, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Stanford is a wonderful university. All this ordinal comparison (Harvard > Stanford, etc.) is childish; there is similar controversy on the Duke page. Casting ill-informed aspersions on someone else's alma mater doesn't magically make your own more prestigious. JTM 19:47, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Mistake In Translation

The German phrase "Die Luft der Freiheit weht", found on the Standford emblem, is subbed incorrectly ("Let the winds of freedom blow"). A correct translation would be:

"The winds of freedom blow"

Even more correct: "The wind of freedom blows"

Yes, "the wind of freedom blows" is the most correct translation. But I'm guessing they're leaving it as "the winds of freedom blow" because of the Beavis and Butthead connotation that "blows" carries. As in, huh huh dude... like, the wind of freedom totally BLOWS! User:Jawed
It is a bad idea to change a translation to thwart a misinterpretation by immature high schoolers, when the incorrect result leaves millions of mature Germans thinking that this university cannot teach the German language properly.

Well, to be a stickler about it, a word-for-word translation would be "The air of freedom blows" -- former Stanford pres. Gerhard Casper (German by birth) noted that -- but that's not really in the spirit of the motto, which I think was originally Latin. "The winds of freedom blow" is a perfectly reasonable and arguably more poetic-sounding translation. In any event, I don't think a plural version of "die Luft" even exists, and it's certainly not always the case that you would want to be so literal as always to match number in a translation -- die Hose and die Brille, pants and glasses respectively, are both singular in German but plural in English, for example. -Ergative 19:37, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)


I don't think it's a question so much of avoiding immature misinterpretation rather than being more idiomatic English. In English, metaphorical winds are almost always plural: "the winds of change", "the winds of war", "the winds of fortune", etc. I think "the winds of freedom" is much more natural sounding than "the wind of freedom". Although this doesn't match the exact syntax of the German, I think it captures the intent of the German while sounding like more natural English. Of course, one can find examples of singular metaphorical winds, so one could aruge that this alteration is not strictly necessary. Nevertheless, surely German speakers understand that not every phrase can be translated to English with word-for-word exactness. Nohat 19:43, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
(On edit conflict, also what Ergative says) Nohat 19:43, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)


Based on the text of Stanford ex-President Gerhardt Casper's 1995 paper, Die Luft der Freiheit weht - on and off: On the Origins and History of the Stanford Motto [1] (PDF), the correct translation of the motto (which is a possibly-incorrect German translation of a Latin phrase) appears to be "the wind of freedom is blowing" (see end of p. 2 of the pdf). This is the translation found in David Jordan's (Stanford's first president) 1896 paper on Ulrich von Hutten. However, Casper's paper also discusses the fact the "luft" actually means "air," not "wind," so the motto, if accurately translated from the original Latin, would be "Der Wind der Freiheit weht", and that the translation from the original Latin directly to English produces "the wind of freedom blows." However, the paper also quotes from Jordan's 1893 Charter Day speech at Berkeley, in which Jordan himself translates the motto as "the winds of freedom are blowing" (see middle of p. 3 of the pdf). In the paper, Casper never explicitly states what he deems to be the correct English translation of the motto. A 1995 Stanford press release ([2]) regarding the presentation of the above-mentioned paper contains the translation "the wind of freedom blows," and a Stanford webpage on the founding of the university ([3]) says the English translation of the motto is "the wind of freedom blows." Based on the above, I believe we should consider the most-appropriate translation of the motto to be "the wind of freedom blows," despite the more poetic nature of "the winds of freedom blow" and the possible increased accuracy of "the winds of freedom are blowing" and "the wind of freedom is blowing." Hence, User:Pdehaye's edit to the translation of the motto should remain.

I just realized (long after the fact), that I forgot to sign this edit. And it took me a fair amount of research too. Darn. -- ericl234 talk 10:36, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

Hello - just came onto this by accident and want to bring in another aspect: the reason "Luft" was chosen (back some hundreds of years ago) is because Air is something haptic static and somewhat consistent (as opposed to "Wind" which is basically just running through!) "Luft der Freiheit" is something you breath and my guess is the original Latin meaning was going into this direction (if time or language wasnt already pre-assuming so). The German plural for "Luft" is "Lüfte"; the plural for "Wind" is "Winde" - both commonly used esp for poetic contexts. Whereby "Lüfte" is more like "into high skies" - (that brings me into a new frame of mind).

Feb 19th 2006

Not wishing to be too pedantic here, but my take (for what it is worth) is that "weht" refers to "Freiheit" (Liberty, instead of Freedom) rather than "Luft" (Air), so it is not so much that the wind is blowing but that liberty is present in the very air (I guess "Liberty hangs in (or floats on, or is carried on) the air" might be another possible translation, but it's still awkward). I choose Liberty over Freedom since the well-known phrase contains "...with liberty and justice for all..." and I guess that would have been more significant then. AncientBrit 20:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The last post is wrong! the verbum refers to the nominative cause (which is air!) - freedom is only the genetive (Air of freedom)! 70.23.108.53 13:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Lead section

This article needs an expanded lead section about 2 paragraphs in length. --Jiang 04:48, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

added Memorial Church / Mausoleum articles

These could use some content...

Stanford Memorial Church Stanford Mausoleum

User:Jawed


Reputation revisited

OK, as it stands the article reads "Stanford University...is one of the more prestigious universities in the U.S.," which is pretty wishy-washy, no offense to whomever eventually phrased it this way (Jengod?). I do remember the NPOV objections to the various ways this was worded in the past, and not to be petty about it, but other schools who have as much right as Stanford to claim being one of the most prestigious universities in the world have articles that say this:

  • "Harvard is one of the world's most prestigious universities"
  • "Yale University...[is] one of the most prestigious and well-known [universities] in the world."
  • "Penn is known as one of America's best universities, and is internationally known as one of the world's most prestigious universities"
  • "Duke is recognized internationally as one of the leading institutions of higher education in the United States"
  • "Columbia is internationally recognized as one of the world's foremost and most prestigious research universities."
  • "Northwestern University is one of the United States' premier institutions of higher education"
  • "One of the most prestigious universities in the world, Brown distinguishes itself..."

etc.

So, would people be in favor of changing the phrase back into something along the lines of what was there before?

(disclaimer: I am a Stanford alumnus) -Ergative 01:55, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

There is no doubt that Stanford University is among the top ten universities in the world. Stanford has an excellent reputation for research facilities and its professors. I really do not think that there is a difference when comparing Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford. They all attract from the same pool of our nations brightest students. This is not a "black and white" argument, but a massive grey area. It does not matter which university is ranked #1 by various magazines, they are all great schools!
I do strongly believe, however, that when comparing our nations top institutions, one cannot neglect the U.S. Naval Academy and West Point. Ladies and Gentlemen, when judging various institutions, one must not judge on facilities, SAT scores,and professors, but production. What an inistituion produces is the "only" thing that matters. Yes, facilities, SAT scores, and professors can be incorporated into this ulimate goal, but they are simply subsets. Annapolis and West Point is constantly producing young men and women ready to succeed. They are the only colleges where competition is stressed, where complacency is not possible, and where adversity is overcome on a daily basis. When judging an institution, one must neglect all outside sources (Rich Father), and determine what the school does for the student in FOUR years. Ok, so a typical Stanford or Harvard student has a 1450 SAT and maybe an internship here or there. An Annapolis student has a 1350 SAT, but leadership experience(three years, the ability the think under pressure, and no debt. So, neglecting all outside sources(rich father), an Ivy League student or Stanford student has brains, little leadership experience, and over $100,000 of debt to pay back. An Annapolis and West Point student has brains, three years of leadership experience, no dept, and a really important job the day they graduate. I am just ranting and giving another side of the coin here. By the way, the U.S. Naval Academy has produced SEVEN RHODES SCHOLARS the past 2 years. The result is the the only part of the equation that matters!
ScottyP


Queued images

Image:Stanford gates.jpg Memorial Church

Vintage Stanford University postcard
View of Stanford University from the foothills

CSLI

Could someone merge CSLI with this page, or rename and expand the CSLI article, thanks--nixie 01:17, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cornell faculty

I reverted your change because it seems odd why you would only mention the Cornell faculty. You could provide a full breakdown of where all the other faculty "hailed" from. But I'm not sure it makes sense to single out a single school. Why this one? What about the other faculty?


I mention this, because I find it to be significant that half of the original faculty all had roots from the same school. I happened to find that fact while reading an official Cornell source and thought that others might be interested in that little factoid. --Xtreambar 13:37, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Your information is back in the article. It is significant, especially because Leland Stanford Sr. had previously tried to donate contributions (in memory of his deceased son) to the prominent established institutions in the East such as Yale and Harvard, which subsequently rejected him. Had they accepted Stanford's offerings, Stanford University never would have been born. Their rejection inspired Stanford to establish his own university, and importing a large number of Cornell people was definitely sending a message to the East Coast education establishment that Stanford was serious about his mission. David Starr Jordan, Stanford's first president, went to Cornell as an undergraduate. Regarding the pejorative comment one person wrote about Cornell being the "worst of the Ivy League", many current prominent faculty members at Stanford received their bachelor's degrees from Cornell, such as former Law Dean Kathleen Sullivan, Stephen Krasner (recently appointed to a high position in the State Department by Condolezza Rice), and Religious Studies professor Hester Gelber.
Just so you know, that story with Harvard and Yale etc is complete BS. See [4] [5]. Jawed 01:00, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Heck, that story was told as a joke, at least 25 years ago. The punchline was the unnamed mother losing her patience and saying, "Come on, Leland. Let's start our own university!"
—wwoods 16:44, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Also, see Stanford's take on the Harvard donation story.[6] [7]

Stanford pictures in Wikimedia Commons

Please contribute more pictures: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stanford_University

Jawed 08:10, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Old Chemistry Building

I recently walked by the old Chemistry Building on the Stanford campus. It has been unoccupied for a very long time -- the grass around it is waist-high, there are trees growing in front of the doors, the windows are shuttered, and the entire building is fenced off. The building carries the inscription "1900" on the front. It's a window into the past.

Does anyone know what's up with this building? Why is it unoccupied and abandoned? Jawed 07:58, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My understanding is that it's structurally unsound as a result of one earthquake or another. It's a historically significant building, so they can't/don't want to tear it down, but renovating it probably wouldn't be cost-effective. Ergative 13:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"The 1903 building, condemned in the mid-1980s for seismic safety reasons, is one of the few damaged buildings on campus that has not been restored since the earthquake."[8] jengod 19:54, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

Full Moon on the Quad?

Has anyone here actually witnessed Full Moon on the Quad? I'm a student here and eager to try this out :) Are there really just girls waiting to make out with guys? Please enlighten me.

this hardly seems like the place for this question, but the answer is, more or less, yes. i say more or less because it depends on your definition of "make out". of course, it varies by girl, but my (one year of) experience indicates that it ranges from a peck on the cheek to a slightly longer kiss with tongue. -- ericl234 talk 09:29, May 20, 2005 (UTC)
It's complete debauchery. Streakers, people openly having sex—I mean, you pretty much see it all there. So sketchy. Sophrosune (talk) 20:20, 17 July 2005 (UTC)


~~Here's some information that might be helpful~~

On the night of the first full moon in Fall quarter, tradition has it that freshman females and senior males come out onto the Quad and kiss at midnight. Over the years, the tradition has degenerated into all freshman and senior making out, often under the influence of alcohol. Residents from the co-ops usually come and streak the event. Sophomores, juniors, and even grad-students may show up, too. The administration is trying to do away with this tradition.

from the College Prowler guidebook, Stanford University - Off the Record

List of Stanford University people?

What do people think about moving the list of notable students, alumni, and faculty to a separate writeup as I've done for Case Western Reserve University (see List of Case Western Reserve University people)? Either way seems to be OK, just thought I'd suggest it, as many other universities are doing the same (Princeton, Harvard, MIT, etc). See Category:Lists of people by university affiliation for a full list of other schools with such lists. - Mark McCartney (talk) 18:43, 2005 May 25 (UTC)

Support. jengod 20:08, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

Well this is nowhere near a consensus but I just went ahead with the move anyway. I didn't change any of the structure, so feel free to revise if you would like. If anyone has any complaints please discuss them here. - Mark McCartney (talk) 14:36, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC)

"second-largest university complex in the world"

I always hear that this university has the second-largest complex in the world. So what is the largest in the world? Jawed 18:08, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think I've heard that it's something in Russia...University of Moscow, perhaps, if there even is such a thing. But I have no idea if this is correct or not. -- ericl234 talk contribs 09:35, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
I was always told it was Duke University. Our article says, "Duke owns 212 buildings on 9,432 acres (38 km²) of land. That includes the Duke Forest and the Sarah P. Duke Gardens." jengod 18:46, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
Nope, pretty sure it's not Duke - if I'm remembering what my tour guide friends have told me, it's Moscow State University. Jul 6, 2005

Well, I took off the part about Stanford being the second largest campus in the world. From what I can find, this is simply not true. If you check Purdue's Wikipedia page it is over twice the size in acreage. I don't go to Purdue, by the way; I go to Vanderbilt. Also, while it isn't a university, but a college technically, Berry College in Rome, GA has over 28,000 acres and probably qualifies as the largest campus.

I re-removed mention of this, and added a little blurb under Trivia. Both Duke and the Air Force Academy are larger. Ironically, Moscow State University is in reality much, MUCH smaller than Stanford. Purdue, by the way, is a system of six public campuses, so I wouldn't count that as bigger. Someone at a college search website mentioned that SUNY-ESL held the Guinness World Record for world's largest campus, but this record wasn't one of the ones accessible from the Guinness website, so I can't verify it. As it stands now, Stanford is at best the third-largest in the United States (after the USAF and Duke). --LyptonVillage 11:12, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Removal of copyright notice

I removed this copyright notice from the page:

University seal and S-tree images © Stanford University

because I thought it was unnecessary as the copyright status of each image is clearly explained on each image's Image: page, which can be found by clicking on the image. It is important that in cases like this we don't make it appear as though it is our policy to specify copyright status of each image inline on every article. If we did, articles would just be long mazes of copyright info. Keeping on the separate image info page is both sufficient and preferable. Nohat 00:17, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Leland Jr. note copied from article

The following was added to the article by User:219.64.65.44. — mendel ☎ 02:26, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

(Monitors - Please understand what you posted here is mere a rumour and nothing more. Leland Stanford Jr. died when he could have barely passed highschool. He never went to Harvard, leave alone passing out. Nor did ever Mr. Leland Stanford travel to Cambrige by rail. Please do not commit such silly mistakes as Wikipedia is my main source of informations on many subjects. - bushyshot@yahoo.com).

The above text replaced content claiming that the urban legend about Leland Stanford being rebuffed by Harvard. A debunking of the legend can be found at [9] - End of the page. — mendel ☎ 02:32, July 10, 2005 (UTC)


Zip Code of the University

Dear Mendel, In the article on the University, you could also add the information that Stanford University is the only university in the world to have its own ZIP code - 94305.

It isn't. Cornell does, too. [10] jdb ❋ (talk) 20:07, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for updating me on that. I certainly did not know that.
That may be so. But Cornell sucks. So Stanford is the only university that doesn't suck that has its own ZIP code.
A very impressive accomplishment, indeed. Perhaps we could put that in the introductory paragraph somehow. Nohat 07:58, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
Hee. :) jengod 17:54, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
Caltech actually has 2 of its own zip codes--one for campus addresses (91125), and one for student mailboxes (91126; it turns out that each mailbox actually has a unique 9 digit zip code)--and this is not including JPL or any of the other off-campus facilities. I suspect that there are numerous other schools that have their own as well.Blazotron 02:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I think many universities have their own zip code. I know my undergrad did (UMR); not sure about my new school, Vanderbilt. What is up with every University claiming they are the largest, the biggest campus, the this, the that, ......... ?

Macquarie University in Australia has its own post code (2109). I am sure others in Australia also do. So I am not sure why you thought Stanford would be the only one in the whole world. Dankru 01:10, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Same old same old:
Globe icon The examples and perspective in this article or section may not represent a worldwide view of the subject.
Please improve this article or discuss the issue on the talk page.

Stanford actually has two unique zip codes. 94305 for campus buildings and locations, and 94309 for PO boxes. -KrawNight 19:54, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Mascot

According to Stanford's official atheletic site [11]:

Since 1981, Stanford has been known as the Cardinal. Stanford was known as the "Indians" from 1930-72. As for the mascot, Stanford does not officially have one. The "Tree," which is a member of the Stanford Band, has been mistaken as the school’s mascot, but it is not.

This site [12] says otherwise:

The Stanford Indian has been officially removed as Stanford's Mascot with the "Cardinal" (color not bird) taking its place as the official mascot.

but I would trust the first source more. btm talk 05:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how much this counts, since it's sort of hearsay, but I am a current Stanford student and it's widely thought around campus that our mascot is the color cardinal. Hbackman 06:00, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
For college teams named after colors, Cornell University, Dartmouth College and Harvard University come to mind. Only Harvard's page lists an official mascot, but they all have some sort of mascot(s) (official or not). I think that often the terms "mascot" and "team name" are used interchangeably and that this leads to confusion. Usually the mascot and team name are the same, but in a few cases they are not. In Stanford's case, the Tree is used on the athletic logo, and seems to be often mistaken as the mascot. Regardless, Stanford's official position seems to be that there is no official mascot. btm talk 07:21, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
I am a current Stanford student. The University does not have an official mascot. Our sports teams are called the Stanford Cardinal (yes, the color, not the bird) and the Tree is the Band's mascot. Krawnight 18:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Nobel Laureates

Right not, the "academics" section reads, "The University has approximately 1,700 faculty members, including 17 Nobel laureates . . ." I'm not sure this is accurate. Stanford's facts page lists 16 Nobel Laureates, not 17. Of the sixteen, eight are emeriti (i.e. retired), three are Fellows at the Hoover Institution, a conservative think tank located on the campus but whose Fellows are not professors in any department and do not teach. Three are at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center and also presumably do not teach, which leaves two (both in physics). The inclusion of emeriti, in particular, seems erroneous to me. --Elliotreed 03:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

move to Stanfurd University?

I think that this page should be moved to Stanfurd University, because that's the proper name. Anyone agree? --Ixfd64 08:28, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha. (You actually got me there; I thought you were actually proposing a ridiculous move...) Flcelloguy (A note?) 22:26, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of moves...

This article was moved from Stanford University to Leland Stanford Junior University, citing Wikipedia:Naming conventions (schools). I have two problems with that:

I'll move it back. Melchoir 02:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

It's on the school's official seal, for Pete's sake. The diploma given to gradautes says "Leland Stanford Junior University."[13] The marching band is the Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band as noted on the school's website.[14]. Microsoft's Encarta encyclopedia says Leland Stanford Junior University is the official name.[15] What more do you need? I'm moving it back to follow school-specific naming guidelines. Please have a good, documented reason before you change it again in direct contradiction of Wikipedia guidelines. ⇒ BRossow T/C 02:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Since you've cited WP:NC(S), I advise you to have a second look at it; you might be surprised at what you find. Common sense dictates that we don't unilaterally implement new "guidelines" having no consensus and no history. Please consider that not everything in the Wikipedia: namespace is correct. Melchoir 02:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Common sense more appropriately dictates that we don't change guidelines or POLICY without discussion and consensus. Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#School_names is official policy stating that school articles use the full, official name of schools. It is the exception to the rule. You simply cannot unilaterally change policy to fit your own needs without input or consensus from the community. ⇒ BRossow T/C 03:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
If you really want to be conservative about changing policy, you should support me in challenging new additions which themselves never gathered policy or consensus. This edit to Wikipedia:Naming conventions inserted language ("full official name") that never gathered or even sought broad support. There was a quick poll on parentheses, so I left that bit in. These changes from November 2005 were never implemented and flew under everyone's radar until you took it upon yourself to act as if they were standard operating procedure. They aren't, and for good reason. Melchoir 03:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
It's been on the books for nealy half a year, according to what you just said. That alone says to me that it's a sound policy, having been in place for that long without anyone changing it until you came along and decided all on your own that you were going to change long-standing policy, regardless of your perception of how it came to be policy in the first place. ⇒ BRossow T/C 03:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
[16] Melchoir 03:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
[17] [18] Melchoir 03:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
I apologize for failing completely to see your point in providing these links. It's quite logical that a policy would have more links than a guideline, that a "parent" guideline would have more links than a "child" guideline, that an "ancient" guideline would have more links than a more recent guideline, and so on. Right? ⇒ BRossow T/C 03:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Two of these three pages have been applied hundreds of times each. One of them has never been applied before. NC(S) has been "on the books" only in the most technical and superficial of senses: it was there, but no one ever used it. You know those laws that turn up in trivia collections, how in X town it's illegal to chew gum and whistle on a Tuesday? That's what we're dealing with here. I'm sorry if you happened across the page and took it at face value, but now it's time to undo the damage. Melchoir 04:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Or, turning your argument around, I'm sorry that a then-guideline was applied that you didn't know about and you disagree with, but it's been "on the books" (whether or not you think it's only a technicality is irrelevant, IMHO) for months without dispute. Feel free to discuss it, obviously, and argue strenuously against it if you disagree, but it's not up to you to unilaterally decide that it doesn't apply and wipe it from the records. ⇒ BRossow T/C 04:21, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
This is not a courtroom; there are no judges to be swayed by technicalities. If I did anything unwise, it was not preserving the old language in the proposed guideline. Well, I'll fix that now. Melchoir 05:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

But if you insist... (I removed the name change proposal because it was already changed to Stanford University and no one was really voting on it anyway.) Jesuschex 15:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

"Leland Stanford Junior University" is the school's official name. The article should stay here. Hbackman 03:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

  • For those of us who are new to the discussion, this article was named Stanford University until a few hours ago. It was moved without discussion to its present name, Leland Stanford Junior University, citing Wikipedia:Naming conventions (schools) as support. The latter page is a proposed guideline that has gathered no consensus. On the other hand, a relevant guideline is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), which is summarized at the top of the policy page Wikipedia:Naming conventions. The most common name of the university is Stanford University, and it should stay there. Melchoir 03:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Yes, a move without requesting input from other editors based on a proposed guideline is inappropriate. I believe that the proposed guideline is a good one and makes logical sense, but I guess that we can't just follow it if there's no consensus. I guess go with the current guidelines for now. (Thanks for pointing those out, by the way. I wasn't actually aware of them.) Hbackman 03:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Well, neither was anyone else; see Special:Whatlinkshere for that page. Melchoir 03:15, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
      • NOTE: It wasn't a "proposed" guideline until Melchoir himself marked it as such. ⇒ BRossow T/C 03:25, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
        • Well, but it was also created in February 2006 and hadn't been discussed. (It isn't even linked right now anywhere on the Naming Conventions guidelines page, and there's a place for proposed guidelines.) People can't just create pages and mark them as guidelines; they should have some sort of community consensus behind them. Hbackman 03:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Ask someone who goes to Leland Stanford Junior University what school s/he goes to. S/he will respond, "Stanford." Therefore, let's just move the article to "Stanford" instead of "Stanford University." Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.... ⇒ BRossow T/C 03:29, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Why must you repeatedly use the slippery slope fallacy? No one is proposing it be moved to "Stanford." People just want it to be moved to the common name, not the colloquial. Jesuschex 04:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
  • It is utter balderdash for this article to be at Leland Stanford Junior University. NO ONE calls it htat except in official legal documemts or perhaps if trying to be intentionally ironic or funny. Stanford would also be acceptable, though I think Stanford University is the most commonly recognized and unambiguous name for the school. And if the NC for schools implies that it should be otherwise, then that NC needs to be fixed because it is way out of whack. older ≠ wiser 12:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
    • The current name is unacceptable; simply because it is the school's official name does not mean that the article should be moved to that location. Our current president is at George W. Bush, not at George Walker Bush; an Ivy-League school in Pennsylvania is at University of Pennsylvania, not The Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania, its official name. Wikipedia articles should (generally, as a rule of thumb) be under the title that is both officially recognized and most commonly referred to; as such, Stanford University is the proper title. Note that Encarta also has the entry under Stanford Univesity; while I recognize that we aren't Encarta, this shows that the commonly accepted entry name for this university is Stanford University. Given the current debate about the location of this article and the fact that most people seem to favor it under Stanford University than at Leland Stanford Junior University, I'm going to go ahead and move it back to Stanford University, the stable name, while we discuss this more. If there's a consensus to move it to Leland Stanford Junior University, then it can be moved back at the appropriate time. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 20:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually UPenn's official name probably is University of Pennsylvania. The Trustees bit is the legal entity that controls the university (Just as at Stanford "The Board of Trustees of The Leland Stanford Junior University" does). At Stanford the full name is used on legal documents and by the band but Stanford University is the usual phrasing (though any Stanford student should know the full name [the band ensures that]). I assume Rhode Island isn't listed under its official name (admittedly that itsn't an university)--Erp 21:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Nope, Rhode Island's title is Rhode Island, but the bolded title within the article is The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. I don't see why this can't be the case for universities and college, however. Jesuschex 21:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


huhhhhh, I just came to this page, and it seems utterly unlogical to have this well-known university under its almost never used name. :confused KimvdLinde 10:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll go you one worse. I struck the full name from an article where it appeared because I've never heard the full name before, but with "Junior" appearing so prominently in the name, it read like...well, like somebody from Cal had been editing the article. :) —C.Fred (talk) 02:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Politics?

Since the Hoover Institution is transparently conservative, which is unusual for a university or university segment, does that mean Stanford itself is conservative? Then again, the law school dean is notoriously liberal. You may have seen her on "Nightline" or other programs. Somebody please clarify. If Stanford is conservative, that's interesting given its proximity to Berkeley. -Amit —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.106.195.46 (talk • contribs) 2 May 2006 (UTC)

...I don't see where politics enters into the article... the only occurrence of the word "conservative" is in describing one of the student newspapers. What, exactly, is the source of your confusion? Hbackman 04:33, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, I think my comments well explain my confusion. In addition, Condoleeza Rice was a Stanford administrator. John Elway is just about as well-known a Republican there is. Again, presitigious institutions are supposed to be liberal, right? -Amit —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.22.216.150 (talk • contribs) 11 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't think they're "supposed" to be liberal. Institutions of higher education do tend to have a liberal bent, but people at universities are free to be conservative if they want to. I wouldn't say that a university as a whole was either conservative or liberal, personally. A school's job is to educate, not to get involved in politics. Hbackman 21:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Hoover Institution is somewhat independent of the rest of the university though still part of the university (in the 1980s the Hoover Director and the University President were often at loggerheads). Most people at Stanford probably tend to the left of the American mainstream though people of all political beliefs can be found there. See Hoover Fellows an Academic Freedom for some info (note there is a particular bias to the article but it does contain some facts about Hoover's relationship to the rest of the University)--Erp 23:44, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

M.A.L.

Under notable faculty, who is M.A.L.? I didn't find anything on google search. It needs verification. --Codeblue87 05:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Meh, reverted. Melchoir 05:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
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