Talk:Stained glass

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Arpingstone, you actually like the all-images-on-right look? I think the old layout looked much better. – Quadell ^{(talk) (help)}[[]] 22:19, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

The reason for the change was that on my 1024 by 768 screen one pic was stuck horizontally against another (hard to describe it!) so most were on the right but one was out of place. It seems that what looks good on your screen looks terrible on mine. So to make the article look good for everyone a simple right-column is sometimes the only choice because the ideal situation of a left-right alternation doesn't work. If you don't like what I've done, just revert, I don't mind - Adrian Pingstone 22:34, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Painted stained glass 2 Largest collection 3 Painted glass: a separate thing or a misnomer? 4 Jim Gary? 5 examples of windows needed 6 Reformation 7 Desg 8 Additional stained glass resources 9 Vidimus Magazine 10 Removal of additions to intro 11 Re Removal of new pictures 12 Reading stained glass

[edit] Painted stained glass

There is no mention of the common habit of painting detail (e.g. faces) onto stained glass. Is that because it is a different craft, or just an omission? Notinasnaid 11:22, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Largest collection

Does anyone know what the largest collection of stained glass is? Number of windows in a building, for example. CoolGuy 08:38, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Painted glass: a separate thing or a misnomer?

Painted glass is mentioned here in the "See also" section, but it's redirected to the article itself. There are two more articles linking to painted glass: Oliver Cromwell and Lillafüred. Is there really such a thing as a painted glass different from stained glass? If so, it should be clarified at least in a stub how they relate to each other (instead of the redirect). If not, and it's a misnomer, links to painted glass should be replaced by stained glass, I suppose. -- Adam78 00:03, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Stained verses painted

Actually, the term "Stained" refers to a process developed by the Germans in the 14th century. Silver nitrate was mixed with a binder and painted on the reverse side of the "trace line" and "matted" side of the glass, then fired at a lower temperature, 1180 degrees F., the medium (binder) is then washed off to reveal the yellow or golden color "stain". The trace line and mattes (mattes are applied as a thin even coat and then selective areas are removed with brushes to create highlights, fired at 1275F, roughly)) The glass is, truly, "stained" by the silver nitrate and allowed the Medieval artists to achieve 2 colors therefore greater versatility with a single piece of clear glass to describe architectural, clothing pattern, or other details. As well, minor correction: Glass is sold by the square foot by some manufacturers, and by the pound by others.

Jane Jacobson, Glass Roots Studio, Oct 23, 2005

[edit] Jim Gary?

On April 15, 2006, user 63.232.117.214 added under "See also":

 * Sculpture
 ** Jim Gary 

However, the article on Jim Gary mentions nothing about glass. Does he indeed work with stained glass?

RickP 06:51, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, American sculptor Jim Gary made many -- life-sized figures -- of stained glass. He also created many other, smaller stained glass sculptures. It was a material he returned to frequently in his career. Discussion of his stained glass work was put in the Wikipedia article on him, but was removed by a wiki administrator, haro. The extensive history of the article recorded in the talk and edits, documents the struggles of contributors who seem to have given up fighting off "the administrator". There are many photographs of large stained glass sculptures by Gary in the early biography of him that is still available on the Internet through used book sellers. It is, Jim Gary: his life and art by Tova Navarra, which was published in 1987 by HFN, Inc. His official web site is still very active and his studio director is quite accessible if you have any questions. Many photographs of this work used to be posted on the Internet, but the sites have changed what they feature. As someone interested in his work for a long time, I have had many questions about his sculpture answered quickly through the official site. It looks as if the long and detailed original article, was contributed by Jim Gary's studio director right after he died. The article now has been slashed down to a sketchy stub -- unfortunately --

Thanks for the answer. A few words in the Jim Gary article about this would be appreciated. Any chance of uploaded copyright-free images of his stained glass work to commons? RickP 20:35, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

It's a pity: the article was large, and while it was certainly a bit uncritical, the editorial response was to simply delete all but a stub. This doesn't really encourage new editors. Or old ones. Notinasnaid 20:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

contacted Jim Gary's studio director, who has photographs, but I do not know how to upload a photograph to Wikipedia, nor whether it then becomes the property of Wikipedia -- she is reluctant to provide them or write anything in the article given the treatment of the new editors who have tried to make it a good entry... (can't blame her, she can post to her own site without such interference). Want to tackle it yourself with the material provided in this article and talk? Perhaps the obsessed administrator, a bully monitoring the site at the expense of the new contributors would act differently to established editors. -- who knows? -- I might be able to get the studio director send you materials you need if it works out, or you could contact her directly. LMK

Was the other editor an administrator? Photos must be either public domain or released under a license that allows any use, including commercial, with a credit. Notinasnaid 09:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

The id for the administrator who kept reverting only to his edits, is listed as harro 5 (all one word). His rigidity is confusing because, looking at the Wikipedia regulations, allowing a great deal of editorial freedom is expressed along with a Wikipedia statement that nothing is established to prevent different styles. Curiously, he made no attempt to make any edits except deletions -- so he did _ nothing _ to contribute to the article, seeming only interested in preventing others from the freedoms they ought to have had -- don't understand the motivation. I will see whether a credit would be okay for a good photograph of one of his stained glass figures -- would that just be a (c) notation or some indication such as, courtsey of... ? I have seen notes accompanying some photographs here that indicate the use is only for the article, not any other use... what are the rules for those? That might be better to offer. LMK

Interestingly, the bulk deletion of most of the article was not done by the admininstrator you name, but someone anonymous. So, following Wikipedia's recommendations, I have been bold and put it back, so it can be improved into the great article it can be. So, editors, please come back and have a go at it. See Talk:Jim Gary Notinasnaid 14:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

bold and brilliant -- let's see if your action promotes co-operation on the article! It may take a while, but am glad to see your effort. Regarding the stained glass figure, how do I ask for the photograph credit format? LMK

[edit] examples of windows needed

An article about windows should include examples. All the examples are modern. We need examples of mediaeval and Victorian stained glass. I tried to put something in about a period, ie the 19th. century when there was a huge amount of glass put in both in the UK and USA, but of which there is not much record. Many of the firms have perished leaving no records. I put in a good deal of what I know but did not include too much for fear of unbalancing the article. If anyone knows how to include availabel pix of windows, please do. I have some good windows in our church and will include them if no one else does. OK? Roger Arguile June 6th 2006 3.40 pm (UTC)

[edit] Reformation

In the section discussing the reformation the article states that "Few [windows] remain undamaged." This needs some context. Does this mean only in Britain? In all Protestant areas? Throughout Europe? - SimonP 01:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Desg

In making a small addition and putting in a link to a commercial site, you also lost a large part of the article, in fact everything below your own addition. You need to check carefully by using the 'show preview' option before saving.

I have removed your link to the nice little window in a dear little weatherboard church that took us straight to the commercial site.

Firstly, the heading that you put it under pertained to the greatest examples of stained glass in the world, eg Chartres Cathedral. Your example is hardly one that a person would travel ten thousand miles to see.

Secondly, Wikipedia isn't the place for advertising.

--Amandajm 21:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I removed the link to the small forum "stainedglassville.com" added by Desg. This is another of his commercial sites.

--RogerJ 21:29, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Desg returned to re-insert the link to the "nice little window in a dear little weatherboard church" with the link to the commercial site, as well as the link to his newly formed commercial forum.

Similar additions of his commercial links on the "Lead came and copper foil glasswork" Wiki page have been removed.

A very good link to the Preservation of Stained Glass was removed by Desg, which he replaced with a link to his forum. The original link was restored. Similar behavior (replacing a pre-existing link with his own) was also observed and fixed on the "Lead came and copper foil glasswork" page.

--RogerJ 16:48, 16 September 2006 (UTC) I have corrected the links and will point out that the preservation link went to nothing to do with glass. The memorial dove window you speak of is visited by many to a very historical location with a single chapel. Mention of this work in "Stained Glass" is quite appropriate in relation to memorial windows. I am new to Wiki and am clear as to the rules. I have removed the commercial link for web-o-rama as it is relative to your guidelines. Thank you, DESG

The preservation link has as its title, and I quote, "The Preservation and Repair of Historic Stained and Leaded Glass." Are you sure you were following the link correctly? It links directly to the Technical Preservation Services of the U.S. Department of Interior, and has a very comprehensive writeup concerning stained glass, difficulties with preservation, etc. I was willing to believe you at first... but this strains credulity. I would urge you to please click on links before you remove them, especially since you seem to be having difficulty with Wikipedia's external links policy. Captainktainer * Talk 15:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I urge you again to read the link provided. From the page: "This Brief gives a short history of stained and leaded glass in America. It also surveys basic preservation and documentation issues facing owners of buildings with leaded glass. It addresses common causes of deterioration and presents repair, restoration, and protection options. Captainktainer * Talk 16:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I am willing to check it again. I have before and it goes to the National Park service. If the artical you speek of is there I will link to it correctly. DESG

I have checked the link again and it points to [1] under rule #5 the link doesn't support all operating systems. Check with the administrators or host of the web page to see why there is a redirection. I have looked deeper into the site and found the stained glass article but only after jumping through a few hoops.

[edit] Additional stained glass resources

However, it is also the only "source" remaining for the article. Your quote seems a bit short of fact. Have you even read my tutorial pages? stained glass art tips If so you will see alot of additional professional advice on the subject. Please consider inclusion or not deleting the valuable resource when it is reinstated, Thank you Desg 03:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vidimus Magazine

T'm not in favour of deleting this link, so I've reinstated it. I think we ought to be patient and see what Vidimus come up with, as it's the first monthly publication, and the article on the featured panel is very detailed and the photo very clear, illustrating some of the subject matter of our present article, likethe use of yellow stain etc. It seems a pity to be so hardline with an accademic, non-commercial publication!

--Amandajm 12:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. While the link is not objectionable, it is not worthy of being a reference in the WIkipedia article. Let's check again in 6 months to a year, before reinstating. RogerJ 19:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of additions to intro

Just to explain my self-

I've just removed several lines that were recently inserted in the intro. The bit about metal salts repeated what had already been written, about two lines above it. The description of the fact that the gLass gets cut into pieces is all there under the heading Technical. The person (no user name) obviously hadn't read the whole long detailed description before editting the brief summary. In other words, it was superfluous.

--Amandajm 09:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC) 09:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re Removal of new pictures

All those new pictures are beautiful and will be useful somewhere.... But

• We've tried to keep this article fairly tightly constructed, but it's well over the usual length because it's a very big subject.
• Every pic that is in place has been selected for a purpose.
• Having 5 pictures in a small gallery looks bad. That's why there's only four in each.
• I've put the new pics into the gallery at the bottom, and will remove them into appropriate articles at a later date.
• please see what's already in place! In a gallery of 4 pics there was already a pic from the Morris studio. Didn't need two! There was already an excellent alabaster window. Didn't need two of those either.

--Amandajm 13:57, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reading stained glass

There was a comment posted that said that this site doesn't tell you how to read stained glass.

The reason for that is that there is a maximum desirable size for a Wikipedia article. This article already exceeds that size.

"Reading" artworks such as stained glass is a whole subject in itself. You can find some of the answers under Poor Man's Bible. You can also look up Iconography. There is another interesting and useful page called Tree of Jesse.

--Amandajm 10:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)