Talk:St. Louis Blues (hockey)

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I think the list of coaches is incomplete. Jacques Martin is not listed and he was the coach of the Monday Night Miracle team! There should also be a more complete description of the Monday Night Miracle.

Gretzky played for the Blues in 1995-96 a trade deadline acquisition.

[1]

Check those facts before submitting =) vudu 03:24, 14 Oct 2003 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] St. Louis Blues vs. The St. Louis Blues

This is very awkward, having the hockey team at St. Louis Blues and the tune at the curiously punctuated 'Saint Louis Blues'. If no one has a serious objection, I'd like to make this a disambiguation page, moving the team to saySaint Louis Blues (hockey) and the song to Saint Louis Blues (music). -- Infrogmation 18:51, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I agree it is awkward to have the National Hockey League team at St. Louis Blues and the tune at 'Saint Louis Blues'. However, to be fair and consistent with other professional sports teams e.g. National Hockey League, they are listed as geographic location followed by nickname.

One possibility might be to use The St. Louis Blues for 'Saint Louis Blues' per Image:ColumbiaLabelBSmith.jpg.

St. Louis blues uses a footnote for 'Saint Louis Blues'.

24.217.219.69 04:28, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. The usual policy is that when a title can refer to more than one thing that title is made into a disambiguation page. I think that's what is needed here. While I'm not overly fond of explanitory words in parenthesis after the title, such is a pretty common way of doing things, and I can't think of anything that's clearer. I'm open to suggestions if someone thinks some other wording would be better than "(hockey)" and "(music)". Cheers, -- Infrogmation 04:53, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I've made the moves and turned Saint Louis Blues into a disambiguation page. I've fixed the majority of the links already, and am getting the rest bit by bit (help in this is welcome). -- Infrogmation 21:22, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

While the usual policy may be to disambiguate, I agree that consistency and fairness are equally important. No current National Hockey League team uses "(hockey)", a term you are "not overly fond of". Although "Saint Louis, Missouri" is commonly abbreviated "St. Louis", St. Louis Blues is listed alphabetically after San Jose Sharks by the National Hockey League. Therefore, they might not consider it an abbreviation of Saint Louis Blues. With W. C. Handy's "Saint Louis Blues" we can make this distinction. -- 24.217.211.99 19:53, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
As I mention on User talk:24.217.211.99, I reverted your move of the hockey article from "St. Louis Blues (hockey)" to "St. Louis Blues", due to your improper procedure rather than just because we seem to have a disagreement as to the best way to disambiguate. If you think the page needs to be disambiguated or renamed differently, perhaps we need to get other opinions on the question elsewhere on wikipedia. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 23:20, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I think it's less a matter of official title than what term a typical user is going to look for (that's why we have Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). In this situation I think the disambiguation page (and the redirect to it) will be most helpful to a typical reader. - Hephaestos|§ 18:05, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

There are better ways to disambiguate. See Wikipedia:Disambiguation#The disambiguation page.
24.217.211.99 14:52, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

St. Louis Blues should be a disambiguation page. It should not redirect to the hockey team. Nothing wrong with St. Louis Blues (hockey). It's a special-case name. If "New Orleans Jazz" were still a basketball team, the same might be required of it. Likewise if the Flyers were renamed the Philadelphia Experiment, or if the Avalanche were renamed the Colorado Front Range.-- Decumanus | Talk 18:53, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Exactly. "St. Louis Blues" is the name of more than one famous thing. -- Infrogmation 22:28, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

As a compromise Saint Louis Blues already is a disambiguation page, and St. Louis Blues disambiguates with Saint Louis Blues (music) as Wikipedia:Disambiguation#The disambiguation page. -- 24.217.211.99 19:10, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

24.217.211.99, Please stop your unilateral moves, which I have not been the only one to object to. I applaud your desire to have other people discuss the question, let's wait to move things around until we see if we can get some sort of consensus. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 22:12, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
The first unilateral move was 20:13, 23 Mar 2004 by none other than Infrogmation. -- 24.217.211.99 04:22, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Okay, I've started a poll at Talk:St. Louis Blues, which is where the request on Wikipedia:Requests for comment was linked to. I also, I hope, made the request for comment language more neutral. (If someone else, preferably someone not involved in the dispute previously, can do a better job of it I encourage them to do so). Anon, please make your case for what you wish to do on the talk page, not at the request for comment. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 22:25, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Current Stars

I'm as big a fan as anybody of my hometown Blues, but is Jeff Woywitka really worthy of "Current Stars" status? And for that matter, is Pronger worthy of "Not to be Forgotten?" Now hear me out - of the three players on that list before Pronger, we have two who have banners hanging at Savvis, and then Brett Hull, who is third on the all-time scoring list and is second on the all-time list for goals in a season (in addition to numerous other accomplishments), and he played here longer than Pronger. Just a thought. - Chris


Chris--I'd argue that Pronger, as a former Hart Trophy winner, probably deserves to be in the not to be forgotten category. He's probably also a future HOFer. I'd say he's not to be forgotten. Zeus1233 10:29, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Pronger is already listed in the Captains. Its redundant to list him in NTBF. Think of it this way: There are three listing: HOFers, Capts and NTBF (other/misc). ccwaters 11:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of St. Louis Blues players

I have started a List of St. Louis Blues players. It would be a great help if when adding players to the main Blues page, that the same player be added to the list. Thanks Masterhatch 14 August 2005

[edit] Hall of Fame listings

Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey/Team_pages_format contains the format for Hall of Fame listings, which provides that players must have played several seasons for the team in question, and those seasons have a material impact on their selection as Hall of Famers. None of the players reverted qualify. RGTraynor 08:28, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


You're kinda slow, aren't you? ---burgz. 08:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uniform colors

Someone might add a mention somewhere of the period during which the team also had a stripe of red on their uniforms. I'd do it myself but I don't know the exact years this was in effect.Nahtmmm 18:02, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


The Blues wore the ugly Blue/Yellow/Red jerseys from the shortened 1995 season to the 97-98 season when the current jersey was introduced as the third jersey, only to be adopted as the main jersey in the 98-99 season. Check out NHLUniforms.com. sseagle 10:34, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chicago influence

A few nits to pick. For one thing, the Eagles' stay in the NHL was brief and abortive -- it would be like citing the Philadelphia Quakers in any discussion of the Flyers' history. For another, the St. Louis Braves weren't around for "many" years; they existed for four. For a third, the phrasing implied that Arthur Wirtz was supportive of St. Louis big league hockey ambitions, when the truth was that he demanded a St. Louis team (when no local group had applied for a franchise) to buy the local arena he owned as the price of his support for the 1967 expansion. RGTraynor 20:46, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


eh, the eagles is actually a fairly significant team for many reason, i've no problem with a minor mention of them. they were an original tenant of the arena which is the same building the Wertz family ended up with which got the BLues the franchise. But in addition to that, the Eagles provided proof of a St. Louis fan base that was attempted to be used by a group to get the Maroons in town (assuming a little of the real problem-- travel costs and schedualing) could be fixed. The NHL decided instead to give the rights to the Maroon's to that Flyer's town, and shut them down- later events created a financial situation where the Maroons were never restarted. there is no infomation on st. louis hockey. it is a shame that the encyclopedia knowledge contained in the existence of the St. Louis Blues as the 6th team selected for the first expansion is not provided to anyone who doesnt already know it. Childhoodtrauma 23:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)childhoodtrauma

[edit] Young, Tkachuk & ??

Now that Captain Dallas Drake and alterenat captain Barret Jackman are done for the season (2005-06), there are now three alternate captains in the lineup. There's Scott Young, Keith Tkachuk and Who? There has to be at least 3-letter players (A's) GoodDay 19:48, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Watched a Blues game, and I think I saw McAmmond wearing an 'A' (though I'm not sure). I've added McAmmond to the alternate captains section. If anyone disagree, simply reverse my edit. GoodDay 16:17, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General query: What is a single member of the St. Louis Blues called?

I'm working on the English plural article, specifically the section on Plurals (and singulars) of headless nouns. The question is: What is a lone member of the Blues called? A Blues? A Blue? Or does one write about them so as to avoid ever, ever constructing a sentence in which that comes up? I gather the team name is based on the classic song and not directly on the color, so it might be deemed more "correct" for the singular version to be "Blues" rather than "Blue"; the issue, however, isn't what's grammatically "correct," it's what--if anything--is actually used. Thanks very much. Dan —DCGeist 17:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

A "Blue." RGTraynor 19:02, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
A "Blue-Note" Zanter 26 August 2006 (UTC)
A "Blue." A player who used to play for the team is called either "a former Blue," or "a former member of the Blues" because of that exact awkwardness. 128.252.89.243 15:56, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
a hockey player. ccwaters 16:48, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


A "Blue", i.e. Brett Hull will always be a Blue. ---burgz. 08:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cursed?

Anyone else think that something should be added to this phrase "In addition, the team has never won a game in the Stanley Cup finals. They made it to the Stanley Cup finals in each of their first three seasons but were swept all three times and have not been to a finals since." Given the fact that these first three Cup finals were the first three years after the NHL expansion, where all the expansion teams were in the West Division, and therefore it wasn't a suprise that the Blues never won a single game of those Cup Finals. Zanter 17:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hall of Fame

I thought this was settled, Gretzy & Fuhr (for example) don't belong in the sections. GoodDay 22:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Hmm, since they both played for the Blues and they are in the HHoF, I'd say they need to be listed here. Unless there is some guidline maybe WP:HOCKEY, that players should only be listed on the team page for their "primary" team? Could be too subjective, IMHO. — MrDolomite | Talk 01:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
There's a guideline at Wikipedia: WikiProject Ice Hockey/Team pages format, dealing with the HHOF section. Under that guideline, Gretzky & Fuhr wouldn't belong. GoodDay 15:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Gretzky played in St. Louis for less than six months, Fuhr played in St. Louis for four seasons. Gretzky does not belong on this list, and even Fuhr is debatable.sseagle 16:51, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the guideline & put back the previous guideline (which backs the removal of Gretzky & Fuhr). My reason for reverting the guideline? I'm not a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. GoodDay 22:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Gretzky belongs on the list because he was a Blues captain. Fuhr being the the Blues for four seasons is a long ass time. You call that debatable? You must be joking. ---burgz. 08:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate Captains

Has coach Andy Murray (upon his hiring) named Bill Guerin as a 3rd alternate captain (joining B.Jackman & D.Weight)? Or has he replaced Jackman as a 2nd alternate captain with Guerin. GoodDay 18:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I guess it's 3 alternates, been watching a few Blues games lately. GoodDay 18:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
According to the 2005-2006 Rulebook (the 06-07 Rulebook had no rule change to this matter), "In addition, if the permanent Captain is not on the ice, Alternate Captains (not more than two) shall be accorded the privileges of the Captain...(NOTE) Only when the captain is not in uniform, the Coach shall have the right to designate three Alternate Captains." I'm curious to know how they can get away with this, unless they don't designate all three for one game, especially seeing as how Drake has been on the ice. I haven't been able to watch lately so I don't know what they've been doing on a game-to-game basis. Thunderstix33 03:10, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Weight, Jackman and Guerin 'rotate' the 2 alternate captaincies per game. This is what all NHL teams with a Captain & more then 2 alternates, do. GoodDay 21:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the current last paragraph about the "we was robbed"

21 paragrphs, less than one per season, and we are devoting a large paragraph to a game that was poorly ref'ed? i find it an inapproipriat use of space, and i strongly suspect that the game is not memorable, or really remarkable, it certianly is going to prove inconsequencial in the panteon of local sports history dealing with errors by officials (the 1985 world series anyone, missouri's defense forced to play a fifth down at the goal line?)

I'd really prefer that the St Louis Blues are not saddled (muddy) with fan reaction to a single game in an unremarkable season.Childhoodtrauma 23:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)childhoodtrauma

the game was dubbed the worst reffing of any nhl game in the 2006/07 season, PLUS theres a lot of controversy with Mick McGeough after this game, and the oilers game.  [`.Thirty Thr33]  (Talk)  20:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

making it a nhl officiating controversy or a mick mcgeough issue (who is habitually ranked amoung the worse nhl refs) is this mentioned on the senators link? nope. why saddle the blues with it? if the answer to that is because the blues came up on the short side of a rather meaningless game, i do not think it is an appropriate use of space for the BLUES. perhaps mr mcgeough deserves his own listing, but other than the blues, his only claims to wiki fame is being jim mcgeough's brother, and ticking off the easily ticked off craig mactavish. I would like to point out that mick's other notable screw up this season is NOT on the oilers page. it is on MACTAVISH's page, and actually might warrent inclusion there (but never on the oilers page) since it resulted in disaplinary actions...

someone going to muddy up the oilers with some anti mcgeough stuff?

ultimately it is COMMENTARY and NOT ABOUT THE BLUES

nor does it have naything to do with luck, the opposite opinion has been voiced in which the blues earned that type of officiating by being a bottom dwelling team, and as much as i'd like to find out to what degree the bottom NHL officials are assigned to teh bottom dwelling teams, it is a bit hard to doChildhoodtrauma 03:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


meaningless game? listen to doug weights comments about the game. this game WAS NOT meaningless, mick mcgeough basically screwed the blues out of the playoffs, if they woulda won that game like they should, it would of gave them hope, and they could of made the playoffs. now, they know they can't make it, and basically the season is done because of one game. MAYBE it should be on the mick mcgeough page, a new section with each team hes ruined. Heres one mans opinion on it. [2] [`.Thirty Thr33]  (Talk)  22:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The paragraph has got to go. The Blues put themselves in the situation for a 'bad' call (they stank most of the season). The 'McGeough' incident should 'at least' be reduced to a couple of sentences. GoodDay 18:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree - Zanter 21:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

They're almost above .500... thats a pretty good team... Also,Mick McGeough might not return to reffing because of what happened here and in edmonton. He already said hes not going to ref in the playoffs (thank god), so that pretty much means hes done.  [`.Thirty Thr33]  (Talk)  22:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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