Talk:Srinivasa Ramanujan

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Srinivasa Ramanujan article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (`~~~~`). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

A request has been made for this article to be peer reviewed to receive a broader perspective on how it may be improved. Please make any edits you see fit to improve the quality of this article.

It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.

	This article is part of the History of Science WikiProject, an attempt to improve and organize the history of science content on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. You can also help with the History of Science Collaboration of the Month.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the importance scale.

Srinivasa Ramanujan was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake.

Date of review: August 24, 2006

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] (If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
	This article is supported by the Science and academia work group.

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mathematics.
Mathematics grading
B Class	High Importance
Field: Mathematicians
A vital article

This article is within the scope of WikiProject India.

Quality: B-Class (add comments)

This article is maintained by the Indian history workgroup.

[edit] Religion

Is this article written by a BJP activist? Please note that Ramanujan was a scientist and must be regarded as one. Science has no religion. I would, therefore, suggest modifying the article accordingly without references to his caste, astrological beliefs, etc. Currently it has a feeling of BJP's manifesto. Dec. 7, 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.123.243.168 (talk) 17:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Spiritual Life

The article contains the phrase "like most modern scientists who believe it 'professionally necessary and helpful' to dub themselves atheist". I cannot understand where this comes from. I've certainly seen no reference to such a 'professional' requirement on the part of scientists anywhere else, and the phrase the article puts in quotes ("professionally necessary and helpful") shows up nowhere in Google except on this page.

Might I suggest something closer to the following: ...whereas G. H. Hardy believed him to be essentially agnostic as far as metaphysical matters were concerned. It could be that Hardy, an atheist, simply preferred to describe him thus too.

[edit] Poor Religion Section

I found the religion section with grammatical mistakes, a non sequitor, and very little comment. I fixed the grammatical mistakes and removed the non-sequitor, but I'm not qualified to beef the section up.

[edit] Name in Tamil

is there any reason his name should be transliterated in tamil script too?? this is not an article about tamil, tamil literatrure or tamil history or arts...nor is his contribution in the field of tamil language. will remove it unless someone clarifies.

the above anon is right. why hasnt anybody clarified this?? there indeed, is no reason why the name should be in tamil. would you add Euler's name in brackets in tamil on Wiki's page on Euler?? would u do it for Newton. Ramanujam's field of study was in no way connected to tamil, except for the fact that his mother toungue adopted the arabic numerals into its script and he also used the same arabic numerals in this research.209.180.28.6 17:23, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

This is absurd. Euler was Swiss and Newton was British. These are written in Latin script. Ramanujan is Tamil and spent most of his life in India. His name is Tamil. It makes sense to have his name in Tamil script. Having Euler or Newton's name in Tamil would make no sense. NTK 04:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

In fact, it is common practice on wikipedia to specify the names in the original languages (Vladimir Drinfel'd in Cyrillic, Mikis Theodorakis in Greek, Yitzhak Rabin in Hebrew, ...). Not only is it respectful, it is often very useful since transliteration is a process in which almost invariantly information is lost. Thus having the original name helps for example into identifying a person or into pronouncing a name. I am sure this discussion has been held countless times on wikipedia, and I do not feel at all for reopening it. So I propose to put back the name in Tamil, and for somebody qualified to verify its correctness. --Lenthe 22:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I completely agreeing Lenthe's view. It is absolutley mandatory to have his name in Tamil , when one attain proud from his origin. If his name not in Tamil, then his nationality also be expelled, then field also be deleted from the article and so on so forth. Eventually what would be left in an article Saravan_p 4th march 2006

Yes, it's standard to have it in there. Please put it back. - Taxman ^Talk 15:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

It it Wikipedia custom to provide names in their original languages if the language has a non-Roman alphabet. See Fyodor Dostoyevsky or Akira Kurosawa.

[edit] Ramanujan's wife

It is really true that Ammal is still alive? If so, she will be 103 this year.

No, She died in 1994 (http://www.imsc.res.in/~rao/ramanujan/newnow/janaki.pdf)

-- Paddu 15:07 25 Jun 2003 (UTC)

   To clarify on the numerals, its the Hindu numerals which was propogated by Arabs.  So there is no concept of adoption of numbers by India.  India is the inventor of the decimal numerals not the adopter.

[edit] Article name

Has somebody checked the spelling of 'Aaiyangar'? To my knowledge, it is spelled either as 'Iyengar' or as 'Aiyangar'.
Gokul

I agree. There are 19 Google hits for "Srinivasa Aaiyangar Ramanujan" when you exclude the word Wikipedia compared to 155 for "Srinivasa Aiyangar Ramanujan". I have moved the page. Angela 19:14, Oct 4, 2003 (UTC)

I moved the page to "Srinivasa Ramanujan" since Wikipedia's policy is most-common-name and his middle name is only rarely used. --Lowellian 07:25, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

His 1st name is his fathers name, his last is his caste name. Only the middle name was actually "his". FT2 01:39, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

No, 1st and 3rd are his real name (ie Srinivasa Ramanujan) His middle name is caste's.

[edit] False formulas

I have read that out of Ramanujan's long lists of formulas, written without proof, many of them were in fact false. If this is correct, it should be mentioned in the article. -- Cwitty

It is said that about 2/3 were new and strioking. However since he was self educated, using out of date books, and had not been aware of the change overseas, the new European trend towards analytic rigour, there were cases where the actual results he concluded were incorrect. However this is not as serious as it seems. A very large number (the majority) were correct, and even the incorrect ones often gave keen insight into mathematical structures which later mathematicians could build upon. FT2 01:38, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Yes absoultely correct, it's not prudent to critise an untrained mathematician who was the best in his contemporaries. Rejecting wrong result and accepting the new correct things is indeed this world should do. 61.1.216.85 02:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC) saravan_p

According to this article--http://www.las.uiuc.edu/alumni/news/fall2006/06fall_lostnotebook.html-- the mathematician Bruce Berndt of the University of Illinois has proven all but five of Ramanujan's unproven formulas with the help of some other mathematicians as well. He's published the results in books along with GE Andrews, who found the lost notebook. Out of thousands of proofs, five is a pretty tiny number, and they may still be proven one day. It is quite a stretch to say "most" of his proofs are wrong.Gloriamarie 22:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation of name

What does "[srInivAsa aiyangAr rAmAnujan]" after Ramanujan's name in the intro mean? It appears to have been added by an anonymous user. Wmahan . 18:11, 2004 Apr 25 (UTC)

I dunno, maybe it's an accentuation guide? Fredrik 18:19, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

That's the way Ramanujan's name is pronounced in Tamil. The first syllable of 'Srinivasa' is stressed; the third syllable is also stressed, though to a lesser extent. 'Aiyangar' is pronounced 'Eye-yen-gaar'. In 'ramanujan', the first and second syllables are equally stressed, and the vowel is pronounced like the 'a' in 'father'; hence RAA-mAA-nu-jan. Gokul 10:14, May 9, 2004 (UTC)

It would be a plus for the article to have the indication of the pronunciation put back in. I've heard an American math prof pronounce "Ramanujan" with the accent squarely on the third syllable. The guy in Good Will Hunting says it as you indicate, with accents on the first and second syllables, maybe more strongly on the second. Is the "u" pronounced as long-u (ū) or as "oo"?--BillFlis 20:54, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kanigel

Unfortunately the Kanigel book is not that good. The author is a journalist rather than a scholar. He's at sea with British culture from 90 years ago, and doesn't know much mathematics. The quote about Indian mathematicians - where does that leave Harish Chandra? Charles Matthews 09:23, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well I don't know anything about Kanigel, but the only thing his book is currently used for is a quote about Ramanujan, so I don't see the problem. - Taxman 14:02, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the quote is somewhat inaccurate and out of place in this article. Also, a section entitled "Quotes" is normally for quotes by the subject of the article, not merely about him. I'd support the removal of the quote entirely, perhaps replaced by some of the things Ramanujan himself has said. --LostLeviathan 07:17, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Orthopractic?

The article says he was an "orthopractic Brahmin". I can't find any mention of this anywhere (the only mention of the phrase google can find on the whole web is this very article). I suspect this is a word-choice of a non-native speaker of english, where "orthodox Brahmin" would be the intended. I'll change the article accordingly, but won't be offended if someone reverts me, brandishing weblinks replete with Brahmin orthopraxis. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 00:46, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, I'll hold off for now, after thinking harder about the paragraph. If the intention is try to draw a difference between being orthodox and simply acting orthodox, I think a clearer phrasing should be used. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 00:49, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Orthodox vs. Orthopractic: Okay I'm intelligent to know the difference between the two. What we need for the Rest of Us(TM) is dictionary definitions. That way one does not need to know historical reference by rote to know the difference.

[edit] Mock theta functions

Can I clarify that these are not a type of theta function, but resemble them in some way? Reference: Hardy's lectures Ramanujan.

Charles Matthews 11:33, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Someone has done that again. They are not that important; I'll just cut them out of the article if they are linked to theta functions, which they are not. Charles Matthews 21:42, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea what they are, but this article seems to discuss Ramanujan's mock theta functions: http://www.physorg.com/news91813611.html "Mathematicians [at University of Wisconsin-Madison] have finally laid to rest the legendary mystery surrounding an elusive group of numerical expressions known as the "mock theta functions." Number theorists have struggled to understand the functions ever since the great Indian mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan first alluded to them in a letter written on his deathbed, in 1920..." Just thought it might be useful to make mention of it, for those of you who can un-techtalk it for the rest of us :) 199.214.26.24 00:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Caste?

The article currently contains the phrase "...because of religious concerns that he would lose his caste by traveling to foreign shores." This sentence makes very little sense to me. Is the phrase "to lose one's caste" meaningful? Does it refer to losing one's status in the caste in some way? I hope that someone who knows more about castes than I do will clarify/expand this part of the article. --LostLeviathan 07:12, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

The Hindu religion specifies that a Hindu becomes a member of a lower caste as a punishment for traveling over the sea. A Brahmin will no longer be a Brahmin after taking a sea voyage.Lestrade 02:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

After relinquishing the position as a member of a caste, a Hindu who has taken a sea voyage can be purified through engaging in pilgrimages. These pilgrimages are never-ending and they are to the many shrines that exist in India. See The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins.Lestrade 22:48, 2 February 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

[edit] 1729

The only two numbers which pop into my head are 10 and 9.. what are the other two? I suppose I'm only interested because that's the only part of the page I actually understand :D Dan 23:49, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmm.. the other numbers are 12 and 1. Thanks so much for your help :)

[edit] What would have been reached, if Ramanujan survived for more years?

friends please spare your opinions GIven his amazing ability, I am sure he would have tackled more harder problems and perhaps solving some really hard problems like The Riemann hypothesis. That guy is extraordinary.

[edit] Superlatives

There are many adjectives in this article that attribute extreme attributes to Ramanujan. They may be correct or they may be incorrect. Does this depend on a person's point of view or is it universally agreed upon by convention? Should I go through the whole article and remove all enthusiastic and gushing descriptors?Lestrade 13:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

I agree, the choice of words could be made more encyclopædic. However, this has been the subject of some back-and-forth reverting on this page. Perhaps it would be wise to list the phrases that you intend to change here on the talk page. This way the changes can be discussed, and hopefully implemented with some consensus. --Lenthe 13:44, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beyond the Bounds of Rational, Grammatical Sense

The article claims that Ramanujan's nickname was "the man who knew infinity." This was also the title of Kanigel's biography. Why did Kanigel title his book about Ramanujan The Man Who Knew Infinity? Does he think that Ramanujan experienced infinity? Infinity is a word that signifies a negative concept: the total, absolute absence of a limit, boundary, or endpoint. Can anyone know or experience such an nothingness? Even if, impossibly, someone could experience such a non-thing, how could Kanigel himself know that it was experienced by Ramanujan? In other words, to call Ramanujan "the man who knew infinity" is to make a doubly senseless, absurd, foolish statement.Lestrade 23:00, 20 February 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

Here is an anecdote in Ramanujan's chilidhood days. When he was studying his 7 th grade schooling. It was a class about rule of division. The government school teacher explained when five numbers of banana in room shared by five man each one would get one that is when a number divides itself would result one. Everyone agreed the rule completely , execpt a child prodigy with shinning eye named Ramanujan. That child raised his arm and incisive question " No banana in the room also no one , whether everyone would get one( Whether same rule could be applied to Zero also)". This incident explains the meaning profoundity of "infinity" , which means nothing could divide nothing ie( $0 / 0$ is indeterminant) This is how he has been entitled as " the man who knew infinity" Saravan_p 08:30 IST 25-2-2006

Indeterminant = infinite?152.163.100.8 03:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)Tetchy Smurf

The English language does not have a word "indeterminant." However, it has a word "indeterminate." "Indeterminate" means "unclear, not precisely established." Zero divided by zero is unclear because it does not conform to the conventional rules of arithmetic operation. It is not infinite in the sense of "having no limit, end, or boundary."Lestrade 03:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

these days i find some of the unknown user spoiling the quailty of the article such as deleting the articles.

I deleted one of my own postings because I used sarcastic language that I later regretted.Lestrade 15:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

Ok no problem as it is only a discussion column. Any one having the rights of freedom of talk. But simply trading of fire and critising viz., grammatical mistake and spelling mistake on both side alone will not solve the intended purpose. Our aim is to give high quality of articles to the reader from all over the world. Why i wrote about is that deleting Ramanujan's photograph at Cambridge University and deleting his name in Tamil Language. Kindly some one restore the same. Why cann't we people having same attitude to give good biography, to become friend? saravan_p 3:00 4-3-2006

[edit] Biopic

The cinema biography of Ramanujan may be unconvincing to anyone familiar with his history. The casting is questionable, since Tom Cruise may not be the correct type. Also, many people may not accept Brad Pitt as G.H. Hardy.

[edit] False quote?

"...[T]he greatest mathematicians made their most significant discoveries when they were very young. Galois who died at 18, Abel at 29, and Riemann at 40, had actually made their mark in history. So the real tragedy of Ramanujan was not his early death at the age of 32, but that in his most formative years, he did not receive proper training, and so a significant part of his work was rediscovery..."

This is attributed to Harding in the article, but a google for the phrases within it only turns up one source that does not appear to be a direct quote, just a paraphrase. I'm thinking it should be removed. - furrykef (Talk at me) 19:49, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

In Ramanujan by Hardy, reprinted Chelsea, NY, 1978, on p.6, he says

The real tragedy about Ramanujan was not his early death. It is of course a disaster that any great man should die young, but a mathematician is comparatively old at thirty, and his death may be less of a catastrophe than it seems. Abel died at twenty-six and, although he would no doubt have added a great deal more to mathematics, he could hardly have become a greater man. The tragedy of Ramanujan was not that he died young, but that, during his five unfortunate years, his genius was misdirected, sidetracked and to a certain extent distorted.

That's Hardy, BTW, not Harding. Richard Pinch 18:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On Ramanujam's mother

This sentence make no sense to me:

His mother is believed to have been well educated in Indian mathematics and he is conjectured by some to be as well.

to be as well WHAT?

To be educated in Indian mathematics. See page 11 of [1]. --Pranathi 19:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Superlatives redux

Most mathemeticians and historians of maths who've cut their teeth would put Ramanujan as in a league of his own but this article is above the cuff and pretty "gushing" as mentioned earlier. I can make minor edits here and there, clarify some grammar and sentence flows, but anyone have any better edits? Lestrade? Thanks, --M a s 00:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ramanujan was "self-taught," or Ramanujan was well educated in Indian maths?

Hi, there seems to be some contradiction between:

A child prodigy, he was largely self-taught in mathematics and had compiled over 3,000 theorems between 1914 and 1918 at the University of Cambridge

and

His mother is believed to have been well educated in Indian mathematics and Ramanujan is conjectured by some to have been as well

(emphasis added.) That's why I was confused and added the comment about Ramanujan's father (sorry for not following the link earlier.)

Is there a way to clarify?

Thanks! --M a s 21:32, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

How about a clarifying sentence like,

His mother .. conjectured by a few to have been as well {link}. The evidence for this being speculative though, he is considered by historians to be largely self taught.--Pranathi 21:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

His school teachers commented that they had nothing to teach him. he boorrowed textbooks of the basics from friends and outstripped them, and was teaching them. Self-taught it is. The contradiction could be resolved like this:

His mother is believed to have been well educated in Indian mathematics which may also have contributed to Ramanujan's education.

FT2 (Talk) 23:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

sounds good to me.--Pranathi 23:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

I failed this article due to the lack of references.That is it.Some P. E rson 22:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures of Ramanujan

Does anyone know of any other pictures of Ramanujan that exist, or can anyone give an explanation why there is only one? Thanks.RSimione 21:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Hardy, in a book wrote there is another one, but its him with pyjamas so its not nice.

In five minutes of web surfing: the picture with this article appears to be one of several copies from the Indian postage stamp. As for "why there is only one," it's nearly "Whisper Down the Lane" (i.e., copies of copies, with distortions imposed by people trying to make the image clearer, or more square, or change his shirt collar). I did see one image of Ramanujan that looked younger and appeared to come from a vintage photograph (maybe the basis for the art that went postal). You might try searching group portraits of university mathematicians from his days in England, but I wouldn't recommend rushing to post any of them online. Who photographed him -- or sketched, or painted -- when, where, and why, must make a difference to anyone seeking to look into his eyes 90 years later. 152.163.100.8 19:32, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] That formula

If I recall correctly, the apparently absurd formula $1+2+3+4+\cdots=(-1/12)$ makes sense in the deeper context of the analysis of the Riemann zeta function (ζ(-1) = -1/12, IIRC). Can anyone remember more details about this? -- The Anome 07:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah. A look at Riemann zeta function indicates that an article about Ramanujan summation needs to be written. -- The Anome 08:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Well that seems to be a marvelous achievement that a sum of all positive integers is (1) finite (2) negative. No wonder why his formulas had no proofs. [Dec. 27, 2006]

[edit] he's not even in bookshelf 2000

how come this guy isn't even named in bookshelf 2000, if he is one of the greatest mathematicians of all time? i'm not trying to bash indians or ramanujan, just asking for a logical answer. Tridungvo 18:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

What is Bookshelf 2000....I guess not many people know about him....He was listed among unsung heroes by TIME magazine......You can google it and see.......badripk

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../s/r/i/Talk%7ESrinivasa_Ramanujan_90e2.html"