Talk:Spitting Image

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Could the US show Crank Yankers be considered to be influenced by Spitting Image? Rhymeless 00:35, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Looking at the puppets, it seems closer in (visual) style to Sesame Street, which predates Spitting Image by years; besides, Spitting Image wasn't shown in America. Also, "be considered to be" is clumsy. You should have said "Could it be said that the US show Crank Yankers was influenced by Spitting Image?". Also, what was the world like back in May 2004? Was the world any different then, were people different? It's odd talking to somebody from the past. Also, -Ashley Pomeroy 21:18, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Russian Spitting image info found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/guide/articles/s/spittingimage_7775945.shtml.

Kopspijkers is not spitting image related: The imitations only last for about 10% of the show.

I remember Norman Tebbit wanted to buy a leather jacket until he saw his puppet wearing one. Also, I seem to remember him buying, or wanting to buy, the puppet of himself. Can anyone verify this?Nfras 04:02, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

Sptting Image was shown in America during Reagan's period of office. They did three shows for NBC with David Frost as a producer and Tony Hendra (the manager in Spinal Tap and an early collaborator in the UK Spitting Image) as chief writer. The series bombed, mostly due to interference with the scripts. There were also puppets made for series in other European countries.

This was shown in Canada, and was wildly popular there during the 80s. --Kickstart70·Talk 22:03, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Wasn't there a Spitting Image Academy Award's Special show in the US one year featuring Mr. Spock? --Slapout 19:36, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I can't vouch for the Tebbit anecdote but I remember Michael Heseltine wanting to buy his puppet. Roger Law said he could have it for nothing on one condition: it had to be delivered to 10 Downing Street in a coffin. Surprisingly, this offer was never taken up


Although the original assistant of Fluck and Law in their work as illustrators (they aren't really cartoonists) Steve Bendelack wasn't a caricaturist as such. In the early days he must have done an awful lot for Roger and Pete but on the tv show his main contribution (before his heady rise to stardom) was in the paint shop.

The recent attempted revival of the show did not fail due to Roger's lack of involvement (he was asked to do a feasability study and spent some time talking to former senior Spits employees). It fell through due to difficulties and complications in finance. Spitting Image was a very expensive show to produce.

Contents

[edit] Spitting Image/Split Image/Spit and Image

Can anyone explain how a Deep South American saying propagated itself across the UK and Ireland, Australia, India, Canada etc? And how does that explain the use of the term "the very spit of him" in the early 1800's, "spit and image" in the late 1850's and the Oxford Dictionary of Proverbs listing its origin at least as far back as 1400's (regarding fathers 'spitting out' their sons) pre-dating "spirit and image" by ooo, say half a millenium at least. The idea that English immigrants would travel to the US, create a phrase, bastardise it through the accent, then have sufficient enough influence to return the phrase to not only their homeland - but to every English speaking country of the Commonwealth (and that simultaneously France and Germany would create identical sayings) before the invention of radio and proliferation of literacy is absurd. I find it amusing therefore someone states the alternative origins are given 'perhaps too glibly'. Perhaps the author should consider that the origin of the term may well lie with the original inventors of the language instead of attributing it to a "foreign" nation.

The truth of the matter is that traditional sayings often have more 'coarse' origins than they're given credit for and it's entirely likely 'spit', whilst referring literally to saliva (or in other words 'physical', but not our flesh), probably was something of a coarse reference to ejaculation. Children then would literally be formed of the very 'spit'. The fact "he's the very image" is common on its own, as is the use of "the very spit" to mean the same thing (i.e. to look alike, be alike, take after etc) suggests "spirit" is far fetched. Especially as "he's the very spirit of his father" if used, isn't popularised. And if we're talking 'corruptions' of words - it'd be more amusing to say it came from "spit" came from "spurt". no?

In his audacious (not to say outlandish) paper on "The Madonna's Conception through the Ear" Ernest Jones makes a similar point. The mouth is most frequently seen as a female (receptive) organ, he states. "It's capacity, however, to emit fluids (saliva and breath), and the circumstance of its containing the tongue... render it also suitable for portraying a male aperture; the idea of spitting, in particular, is one of the commonest symbolisms in folk-lore for the male act (hence, for the instance, the expression "the very spit of his father")".
So the impulse to spit, which is both expressed and held in check by the nervous cough, may symbolise ejaculation.
"Spitting image" is first recorded in 1901; "spit and image" is a bit older (from the late 19th century), which seems to refute the explanation "splitting image" (two split halves of the same tree). An older British expression is "He's the very spit of his father", which Eric Partridge, in his Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English (Routledge, 1950) traces back to 1400: "He's ... as like these as th'hads't spit him." Other languages have similar expressions; e.g., the French say C'est son pere tout crache = "He is his father completely spat." Alternative explanations are "so alike that even the spit out of their mouths is the same"
Several phrases have been used down the years to indicate that one person is the exact likeness of another: 'spitten image', 'spit and image', 'the very spit of', 'dead spit for'. There aretwo main theories about this, both of which suggest that our modern phrase is, via one or other of these forms, a corruption of 'spit and image'. This contains the even older 'spit' which existed by itself in phrases like "He's the very spit of his father". The dispute comes over the origin of 'spit'. One view is that it's the same as our usual meaning of liquid ejected from the mouth, perhaps meaning that one person is as like the other as though he'd been spat out by him.But another view is that 'spit' here is an abbreviation of 'spirit', suggesting that someone is sosimilar to another as to be identical in mind as well as body.
traces the phrase back further: "The germ of the idea behind this phrase has been traced back to 1400 by Partridge, who cites the early example, 'He's .as like these as th' hads't spit him.' Similarly, in England and the southern U.S., the expression 'he's the very spit of his father' is commonly heard. This may mean 'he's as like his father as if he had been spit out of his mouth,'
Spitting Image is an expression that lacks a clear consensus as to its origin. The Morris' (Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins) cite one authority who thinks that spit in this context comes from the Anglo-Saxon spittan, meaning "to eject from the mouth," and that the phrase means 'speaking likeness'. He quotes a source dating back to 1602 to support this notion. Harold Wentworth in the American Dialect Dictionary take a different view. He has documented a common phrase in the Southern United States, "He's the very spit of his father ," and suggested that 'spit' is probably derived from 'spirit'. His reasoning is the tendency of Southern dialect to soften or lose the letter 'r'. Thus, spitting image would have originated as the spirit and image. Hey, you be the judge.
Excerpt
spitting image n. A perfect likeness or counterpart. [Alteration of spit and image, from spit, an exact likeness, as in the very spit of. . . .]
—The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, 2000
A child who bears a striking resemblance to a parent is frequently referred to as a ['spItn 'Imd] of that parent, orthographically represented variously as X is the spitting image/spittin' image/spit and image of Y. But which of these (if any) is the original representation, and which the altered form and imperfect likeness?
Is it "spitting image" or "spittin' image" or "splitting image" —and why?
—Norma Brown, Denver
We vote for "spittin' image." Some scholars contend the phrase is a corruption of the term "spit and image," meaning so-and-so is so much like someone else that he could have been spit out of that person's mouth. Others suggest that the original phrase was "spirit and image," as in "he's the very spirit and image of his father," identical in spirit as well as in looks. The latter seems a bit more genteel, don't you think? In any case, the g should be silent.
We return below to Brown's genteel alternative, splitting image, and the role of the silent g.
Halma, 176: Hij gelijkt zijnen vader als of hij uit desselfs troonie gesneeden was; Tuinman I, 89. Te vergelijken is nog Campen, 76: Hy is hem also gelyck, als oft hy hem wt der huyd ghesneden waere, dat bij Agricola luidt, 639: Er ist yhm also ehnlich, als were er yhm aus der haut geschnitten. Thans zegt men in het nd. dat Kind is sinen Vater ût de Ogen krôpen (Mecklenburg); hd. einem wie aus den Augen (of aus dem Gesicht) geschnitten sein; eng. I'm sure he is the very moral of you, as like as if he had been spit of your own mouth (Smollet; zie Prick, 2); he is the very spit of his father; in het Friesch: hja is hir mem ut 'e mûle stapt, eig. zij is haar moeder uit den mond gestapt; in Vlaanderen: 't Is zijn vader gedraaid en gesponnen of gewisseld en gedraaid (De Cock1, 225).
For the majority of language columnists,1 spittin' image is a euphemistic alteration or "corruption" of the original expression, spit and image:

So, in conclusion, I think you'll find the general consensus is "spirit and image" is the answer given 'too glibly'.

Apologies for the extended slashing of the comment.--82.42.56.236 22:40, 6 May 2006 (UTC) Sincerely, Koncorde

There is a French expression which very closely relates to the term "Spitting Image" : "Portrait craché", where "craché" refers to the practice of spitting in order to seal a promise, an oath, a swear, or other solemn statement. Popular practice includes spitting on the ground, or in the palm of one's hand before shaking hands with the other party. The expression "portrait craché" is to be referred to statements like "C'est de lui, tout craché", where the person who pronounces this sentence would swear-and-spit on his statement. The title "spitting image" gives a twist to this expression, as in : this image is actually not "sworn & spitten", but actually "spitting at you".


[edit] The Racist song concering South African people

Could it please be noted that this song is very offensive to members of the Afrikaner race and that the sweeping message conveyed is in fact highly racist. Just to put it into perspective if the BBC were to broadcast a show saying that a song about never having met a nice Pakistani/black person or American would probably lead to riots and the destruction abd boycotting of them so this show was very racist to Afrikaners.

JBAK

That's not to put it in perspective. That's to throw it wildly out of perspective. The song is "satirical" and notorious for lampooning and exagerrating the qualities of those at the centre of its attention. Spitting Image was routinely as scathing against all who raised the heckles of those who wrote the scripts. Everybody from Mao to Reagan, to Gorbechav to Thatcher and beyond took full brunt with some close to the knuckle stuff.
In the end the song reflected worldwide opinion of what Apartheid South Africa was about. Was it racist? Only in so much as having all the Scots drinking and wearing kilts is racist. "Stereotypical" is perhaps more accurate.--Koncorde 19:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why did it End?

The "Why did it End?" section is garbled and nonsensicle. It also appears that such history fits better in the "Puppets" section as it is. I really want to just delete "Why did," but I'm restraining myself. --Amanaplanacanalpanama 02:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it might be better if I just tag it.--Darrelljon 19:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. That's more rational. --Amanaplanacanalpanama 22:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
This section of discussion was completely removed by Tiswaser with no explanation. Some edits have been done to Why did it end and the inappropriate tag has been removed by an ip address. I'm still not sure if it's inappropriate tone so restoring the tag should be considered.--Darrelljon 14:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] YouTube

YouTube

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. ---J.S (t|c) 15:06, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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