Talk:Spirou et Fantasio

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Contents 1 Tembo Tabou & publication dates 2 Confusion about the Marsupilami 3 Translation of album names 4 Spirou magazine 5 Top image 6 Villains

[edit] Tembo Tabou & publication dates

I've just reverted a change re: Tembo Tabou. WhiteEcho has modified the date to 1968 which coincides with the first book publication. However, the first publication date is, as I understand it, 1958, when it was first published in Le Parisien Libéré. The other dates are meant to mark first magazine/newspaper publication, not books. This is why dates are in fact assigned to individual stories. David t 19:04, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confusion about the Marsupilami

The information about Le Nid des Marsupilamis in 1.2 is slightly misleading. The Marsupilami featured in this book is in fact a different individual from the one which lives with Spirou and Fantasio; it is still a wild animal, with a family. This is I believe also the individual featured in the spin-off comic by Batem et al. Thermaland 20:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You are right in that those are two separate characters (and maybe three, counting the spin-off one). The confusion comes from the fact that Spirou and Fantasio call their marsupilami "Marsupilami" (as if my cat was named Cat), so although the distinction is pretty clear in the book, it's not particularly easy to disambiguate in wording. Perhaps this should be explained under Marsupilami? David t 18:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation of album names

Are these the official translations? Because some of the translations are rather odd (Luna fatale, Spirou sur le ring etc.), but I don't want to edit them if they are official translations. Dizzy D 12:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The page says there's only been two English translations of Spirou books: Z comme Zorglub and L'ombre du Z. The rest of the English titles in the page, to the best of my knowledge, are unofficial. Indeed, the Luna Fatale translation seems odd to me too (keeping it untranslated would be preferable IMO, since it would preserve the pun on "femme fatale" which many English speakers understand), not sure about Ring. David t 17:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. In that case I'll change some of them. Dizzy D 21:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spirou magazine

Was the magazine created by Dupuis or by Rob-Vel? The comic is created by Rob-Vel, no discussion, but the magazine? According to the Comiclopedia[1], it was created by Dupuis. French Wikipedia says the same[2].So does BdOubliées[3], ... I have not found a reference to the contrary (though some are unclear by stating that Robvel created Spirou, without making explicit if they mean the series or the magazine). If you can provide serious references that Rob-Vel created (and owned?) the magazine until 1943 or whenever, I'ld be more than happy to include it in the article. Otherwise, it is unreferenced and since there are sources to the contrary, it has to go. Fram 18:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to trust your sources because I can't remember what my own sources are; I just remember reading that Rob-Vel started the magazine which was later bought by Dupuis. But I might be mistaken. If I find the source then I'll post it here. David t 20:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Top image

Getting reverted several times by User:Andromeda over differences of opinion of what should be the top image, first, because said user arguments there are too many images, and when that no longer can be the case, because he feels affinity with "the current authors", I feel I need to put this to consensus. As an editor with a terribly long relationship with the subject, I think its slightly offensive that Morvan & Munuera take "encyclopedic top billing" of this subject. They are not cause of Spirou's degree of notability, and I imagine, to many followers of Spirou their work represent a disappointment of the series' direction and drop in quality. Had I been reading about Spirou for the first time, I would also expect first to be given elementary documentation, before "what it became 60 years on". So no, I don't think "It's better to have that image on top", but rather a seminal illustration, such as Il y a un sorcier a Champignac, or something else more sensible.

Furthermore, Andromeda, in future reverts of moot or no reasoning, take into account other edits that get negated as a consequence of your whim of fancy. MURGH ^disc. 10:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I have been asked by Murgh to comment on this (not, I think, because we are known to think similar about things or because I am certain to support him or so, but because I'm one of the more active contributors on articles about Belgian comics). I agree in general with Andromeda that we shouldn't have too many images on an article page (certainly when they are fair use and not public domain), and so I have no problem with the removal of one of the Franquin covers (if another one has to go, drop the Broca / Cauvin one and the Fantôme one at the bottom: there are much better covers by other Spirou artist, e.g. the very first album, "Spirou et l'Aventure" by Jijé[4]). I do agree with Murgh however that Franquin is the best known of the artists involved in the series (and the one with the most albums to date), and as such can be well argued to be given the top position. It would be perhaps the best solution if we could find a fair use image of the cover of one of the English editions, both because this is an English language encyclopedia after all, and because these two books (Z) are some of the best of the series and some of the best, most striking covers. If either of those cannot be found though, I would support giving any Franquin cover the top position (I'm not very fond of the current Champignac one though, perhaps chapeaux noirs?). Fram 13:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Salomonic enough for me. And yes, not for bringing in an "ally" but resolving 2 opinions locked in opposition, I did ask Fram to comment, knowing only about him that he has subject matter insight. That Jijé cover is certainly seminal, but I feel probably too gif-grainy to look decent, even thumbed. I'd certainly be fine with Chapeaux noirs, but agree about English language presence (and the weight of Zorglub), and I'll look for that. -MURGH ^disc. 14:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I scanned the cover to the English edition of Z is for Zorglub, if you want to use that. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Spirou-15_(EN)-Z_is_for_Zorglub.jpg It's not a very pretty design, though, so I wouldn't really recommend it. -Snarkibartfast 16:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

This was resolved by avoiding a cover image for that slot, but the Z comme Zorglub article includes this image, although of inferior quality to your scan. I'll see about switching them. And yes I agree, the fantasyflight design is godawful. MURGH ^disc. 16:49, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Most comics articles have the image of the current authors/roster on top. I think it's a very logical decision, which I agree with. Franquin may be the best known for long-time fans, but newer fans may not know him (I know of a couple of cases), so it's not as easy as you think. I also think than one cover from each author is the best solution, since it gives a more broader view on the series history. --Andromeda 20:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I can't say I agree with this reasoning, nor your impretation of bold editing. I do gather you are protective of your canon of uploaded imagery but not so interested in coming to any agreement. Is it your view that this article has reached its visual apex and should henceforth look like this? -MURGH ^disc. 00:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

No, but I don't agree with your changes either. There's a difference. --Andromeda 17:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Thats been obvious from the start. But the righteousness of the arguments, 'too many images', 'newer artist is better' don't hold up. If you were to illustrate the comics of Donald Duck in comics, do you show Carl Barks or something by the "the current artists"? You don't just blind revert because "you don't agree" with changes, then the only option is to be constructive. I've tried a few different things, and that English Zorglub cover has validity far beyond Nic & Cauvin or Fantôme. It's also miffing that you nailed it shut to a Franquin album considered among his least successful. The earliest art needs to be shown, which isn't there at all, and the Morvan & Munuera needs to be moved down to its later mention in history. I'm all for an non-album top image, which is the current convention, an ensemble or seminal image. I have cleaned up the Jijé album cover and would put that up, but have a feeling you'd revert it upon sight. -MURGH ^disc. 17:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know the Donald Duck comics, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Non-cover sounds fine, but not Jijé. Franquin at least or the current ones will be better. Jijé is too old and too different. Many people won't recognize his characters as Spirou & Fantasio.

"It's also miffing that you nailed it shut to a Franquin album considered among his least successful" -> ???

--Andromeda 19:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Villains

I've removed the Villains sub-category (while keeping its content) because it makes little sense to have just one sub-category under Characters. If someone puts it back, please put the other characters under another sub-category for symetry's sake. Thermaland 14:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I also agree a villains subcat isn't ideal, but it got reverted. In the long run, I still think (as suggested in Talk:Spip) that we keep to a light character mention here and build a more extensive Spirou characters of its own. MURGH ^disc. 17:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Good plan. I've created the characters in Spirou et Fantasio page as the first step is supposedly the hardest. For now there is only material from here on it. Thermaland 14:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)