Talk:Spiritual successor

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This article was nominated for deletion on 120106. The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

Contents 1 Doom 3 2 Stargate? 3 Fan work 4 Establishing connection 5 Rise of Legends 6 This article needs checking! 7 Warcraft=Diablo 8 Shadow Warrior 9 List removed 10 No article? 11 Examples 12 Ouendan and Elite Beat Agents 13 Hey

[edit] Doom 3

While I think Doom 3 was influenced by System Shock 2, I don't know if it can really be considered a spiritual sequel. To my knowledge there wasn't much team overlap. And all of the other spiritual sequels either have serious team overlap or the inspiration of the original game was publicly acknowledged by the team. -- Hardgoodbye

I highly doubt there would be any team overlap, but the general opinion I've seen is that it is so heavily inspired that it might as well be a spiritual sequel. By the way, don't forget to sign your comments.--DooMDrat 04:05, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I wonder if that makes it a "spiritual sequel", or just a rip-off? It might be a moot point, considering the similarities... because there are alot of them. I don't think we should list all rip-offs as spiritual sequels, but considering the high-profile nature of Doom 3, it's probably worth leaving it on the list. -- Hardgoodbye 04:13, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Doom 3 was supposed to be a remake of the orriginal, not really a sequel to anything —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.149.52.26 (talk) 00:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Stargate?

Why is Stargate a spiritual sequel to Raiders of the Lost Ark? I could maybe see "The Mummy" being a spiritual sequel to Raiders... but not Stargate...

[edit] Fan work

OnEscapee was listed as a spiritual sequel to Another World, which is fairly ridiculous. It's an homage (or a rip-off for the cynical) but because it was a fan game with no input from the original people it shouldn't be considered a spiritual sequel. If the meaning of 'spirtual sequel' gets relaxed enough, we might as well start including clones and fan fiction.

[edit] Establishing connection

We need to establish what the connection is between these games are. It's looking pretty plain and useless as is. I added a bunch of information but someone deleted them claiming them full of errors. Stupid since I mostly only mentioned the shared developers between the games, i.e. Chromehounds and Murakamo are both from Armored Core developer, From Software. Nothing wrong with that.

[edit] Rise of Legends

I just put down Rise of Legends as a spirtual sequel to Rise of Nations on the list. I thought it would have already been added there since the Rise of Legends wikipedia page says it is a spirtual successor to Rise of Nations.

[edit] This article needs checking!

The items added here need to be confirmed as being spiritual sequels/successors. Items should only be added if reliable sources can back them up (not because you think "Gee, Game X sure seems inspired by Game Y"). Otherwise it will become an indicriminate list (if it isn't already).--Drat (Talk) 06:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Warcraft=Diablo

I can see how Starcraft is a spirtual sequel to Warcraft, but not Diablo.--70.16.14.116 01:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Except that it's still Original Research, without sources.--Drat (Talk) 02:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shadow Warrior

Good points in your cleanup, Golbez. I'm confused though - I would think that Shadow Warrior would fit the criteria for a spiritual sequel - produced by the same company with the same run engine and a similar style of gameplay and humor. I'm not sure what other criteria we use to differentiate. I think that Warcraft/Starcraft are in the same boat. Sraan 21:16, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Being of the same engine, by the same company, with similar elements like a sense of humor doesn't necessarily make it a spiritual sequel. There's no... spirit? I don't know. It just doesn't feel right. Flashback shares many, many similarities with Out of This World - The control scheme, the look and feel, etc. The difference is, these control schemes and look and feels were unique for their day, whereas we can't say that every 3D first person shooter is a spiritual sequel of Wolf 3D. I think it probably also has to do with the intent of the developers (but obviously this isn't the only criteria, since different people developed Flashback and Out of this World - maybe we should add Flashback as a spiritual sequel of Prince of Persia as well?) - I can't speak for them, but I saw nothing in Shadow Warrior that said "We're making this as a spiritual sequel to Duke 3D", even though it was obvious with things like Ikaruga, Red Faction, probably Soul Blazer, but to draw broad lines like "Wolf 3D - Doom - Quake" or "Duke 3D - Shadow Warrior - Sin" is a bit much. --Golbez 21:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Umm, if "not having the same feeling" is a factor, then maybe timesplitters series shouldn't be associated to goldeneye 007, it's just not the same thing. I don't know if the developers are the same or not, but time splitters 1 is very different from goldeneye 007. I also don't think perfect dark is much of a spiritual sequel, but thats a bit more similar. --LeinaD natipaC 10:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

And another problem is, this entire list is original research. --Golbez 11:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

This article should be about spiritiual sequels, not a list of them. Instead, the categories should be used, and would be self-maintaining.--Drat (Talk) 11:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider Doom/Quake to be that tenuous a connection. Quake III had references to Doom, and Doom III had weapons from Quake III. Also, the BFG is in every version of both games, with the exception of the original Quake. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ben Morris (talk • contribs) 19:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] List removed

I've removed the list as none of it was sourced, and it was a magnet for everyone with an overactive imagination. Instead Category:Unofficial sequels can be used. I've put an unreferenced tag on the article. This is actually a verifiable phenomena, so it'd be good to see some sources. Just don't want anyone over-reacting and tossing it on AFD within five seconds.--Drat (Talk) 12:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No article?

I thought this AfD resulted in keep? There seems to be a lack of anything here... --Hawkian

I removed the list. The article mainly consisted of a list of spiritual sequels, and this article should be about spiritual sequels, not a mere list of them. The entire list was a magnet for original research. People were adding items to the list without providing any proof whatsoever, and it was pretty clear with some that it was a case of either overactive imagination, or mindless fanboy syndrome. A category is self-maintaining, as individual articles can be sourced more effectively, and is less likely to get out of control, like the list had.--Drat (Talk) 22:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The whole article looks to have disappeared now, though. Sraan 03:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

That's because the list was the vast and overwhelming majority of the article.--Drat (Talk) 05:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

No, seriously, the whole article had disappeared. It said there was no article by that name. But it is back now, so nevermind. Sraan 20:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Examples

This article would really benefit from an example of some kind. 210.49.218.220 06:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ouendan and Elite Beat Agents

Masam, I don't think that EBA would qualify as a spiritual successor or sequel of Ouendan, it's really more of a localized remake along the lines of Man About The House versus Three's Company or all those other shows remade for Americans. Wasteland and Fallout are a much better example of a concept floating from one game to another, especially since they embody all the silliest tropes of an idea that won't quite die in spite of repeated theft, disownment and abuse. 208.54.14.12 18:34, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the example of Wasteland/Fallout is better, though I've seen others call Ouendan/EBA as spiritual successors. However, prior, without examples, it could just be speculation, even if well known in the gaming community. With examples and references as it is now, it does stand out as a better example. (I've heard, but rather not put it in just yet, that Bioshock is a SS of System Shock, but I'd think just one well-referenced sample is better than trying to get every one in). --Masem 00:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Bioshock is indeed a Spiritual Successor to SS2. I'll try to track down a source tomorrow. You should have seen the mess this article was before.--Drat (Talk) 12:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

Why is half the article spent talking about one specific example? Very underwhelming fancruft. In addition, why is it considered a video-game related article? The text establishes in the first sentence that it can apply to several forms of media. --Pathogen 10:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)