Talk:Spinnaker

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I'm not quite sure how to rewrite this page. The spinnaker is more than a bag of wind. It conforms to exactly the same laws of aerodynamics as other sails do! But what is currently in the article is a common misconception. Andrewa 21:31, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Broaching

The discussion of broaching is misleading. Broaching is not uncommon with asymmetrical spinnakers, and the wind never comes from the opposite side of the sail. It is true that it's nearly a capsize. - Bob S.--68.192.140.211 23:05, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Anyone have any input on how to rework that? Never having sailed with a spinnaker, I'm working entirely with secondhand knowledge here... scot 22:06, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

As someone who has done a lot of broaching, I think it needs a page of its own. I will write one. Malcolm Morley 09:22, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History of asymmetrics

Asymmetric spinnakers have been around much longer than mentioned. 18 foot skiffs may have been the first. Certainly they had them as early as 1987.

I'll look into that and see what I can find. It may be hard to pin down, as highly cambered genoas (gennakers) tend to look a lot like asymmetric spinnakers, the only definitive difference (as far as I can see) being whether or not they're attached to the forestay. scot 22:06, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Here's a promising link: http://www.monmouth.com/~nsnj/demystasym.htm It seems to be a bit fuzzy to me on the descriptions of the sails--is a sail with a wire luff, for example, considered an asymmetric spinnaker, or a gennaker? I'll keep looking... scot 02:02, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

https://www.setsail.com/c_central/sail_advice/sail_advice.html#fourinone More nomenclature to confuse the issue more... scot 02:12, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merger of cruising chute and gennaker

I think given the similarity of the above sails to the spinnaker (they're all lightwieght nylon sails, usually colorful, attached at 3 points rather than along the luff, used for mainly downwind sailing and only deployed as needed) that those pages should be merged in. While the sails may be used differently, there seems to be a fairly blurrly line to each of the categories, and having all the types in one article would allow the distinctions (or lack thereof) to be clearly noted. scot 21:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The term "Gennaker" and "Cruising Chute" are slang off-shoots (pun intended) of the spinnaker- namely that of an "asymmetrical" type of that head sail.--Dana 21:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Just wait a moment. There is a difference between a spinnaker and a gennaker, namely that spinnaker normally refers to a symmetric sail and gennaker to the asymmetric ones. A spinnaker is used with two sheets and just fixed with one point (top of the mast), a gennaker is used with only one sheet and fixed with two points (top of the mast/bow) --84.163.250.134 18:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

That is (mostly) correct, however this article covers both symmetric and asymmetric spinnakers. The "mostly" was for the fact that the lines to control a spinnaker are generally called "guys" rather than "sheets", and a gennaker does have a pair, attached to the same corner of the sail and passing on different sides of the forestay (just like a jib's sheets pass on opposite sides of the mast). scot 18:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm back (from sailing- actually; and could have used either of these!) I would maintain that a gennaker is a form of headsail that is lightly constructed and designed to enhance off-wind performance. Hence, it is a form of spinnaker just as a genoa is a form of headsail called a jib. I'm not really sure but I doubt that you'd use a gennaker into the teeth of the wind, would you? We are talking about a robust entry in a encycol so, I guess, gennaker could be cross-reffed to "jib".--Dana 20:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I know the need--I live in Oklahoma, where the winds tend to be all or nothing (two weeks ago I was out on a lake in a Guppy 13 in 25+ knot winds--that'll make you a believer in reef points!) so I just picked up a used asymmetric and dousing sock to put on my MacGregor 21, and I've found a place in Tulsa that will put reef points in the main. Dousing spinnaker plus reef points plus the DIY PVC roller furling rig (see the article for a picture of the one on the Guppy) ought to have me ready for just about any wind. And for zero wind, there's always the iron jib...

As for close reaching with genoas and spinnakers, it can be done. The big issue is how flat the sail is. Some of the asymmetrics are pretty flat, and will get you pretty close to the wind. As for genoas, they tend to be a lot flatter than most asymmetrics, though there is some overlap. The earliest asymmetrics were actually the high camber "balloon" genoas that showed up in the late 1800s. Marchaj has some pictures of those in Sail Performance that look just like modern asymmetrics that fly off the retractable bowsprits. scot 21:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course gennakers are indeed a form of spinnaker, but in writing articles I've found it useful to use a link to both 'spinnaker' and 'gennaker' within a couple of lines. Maybe I could/should have written 'symmetric spinnaker' and 'asymmetric spinnaker', but I find the present set-up convenient. A photo in the gennaker article would save a thousand words - see for example image Y&Ytest1.jpg. Cruising chute, spinnoa and all such terms should naturally lead to the same article as gennaker.Tony 14:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

From the perspective of someone who knows next to nothing about sailing (and what I do know I've learned from reading these articles) I'd agree it would make more sense to have the two merged together. As an example, I can't tell if gennaker is just another name (maybe a brand name?) for an asymmetrical spinnaker or, if not, what the difference between the two is (if anyone could clear that up I'd appreciate it). JaySH 23:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC)