User talk:Speakslowly

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[edit] Anglicizing the Ñ

You might think you know how people should spell their names better than they do themselves, but Wikipedia isn't the place to be spreading your wisdom. That ñ and n are pronounced differently in Spanish, and can change the meaning of a word, is a fact. The conclusion "hence, people shouldn't anglicize names" is not.

If you still insist on having it in the article, cite a source, and put it in the source's mouth (e.g. "XYZ recommends that immigrants not anglicize their names"). --Ptcamn 03:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I might think I know? No, I do know. Wikipedia prospers from my wisdom. By the way, perhaps you should re-read my statement on the ñ page, I never said that people shouldn't anglicize their names, I merely stated that doing so was breaking the rules of proper Spanish and spelling. Anybody is free to spell their name however they wish, even if they are incorrect. I am free to spread my knowledge in telling them that they are incorrect because that is a fact. --Speakslowly 04:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
If, say, the Real Academia Española has officially addressed the issue of the anglicization of names, then you should be able to link to a site or cite a publication where they say so. And also remember that different organizations and individuals have different standards of correctness—you'd have to say "the Real Academia Española says this is incorrect", not simply "it is incorrect", since what's incorrect for one might be fine for another.
If not, I consider it original research and will remove it. --Ptcamn 04:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Transfer this discussion to the official Ñ page, I've alread begun. As for original research, you're absolutely ridiculous. It's very simple, the Ñ is it's own letter, meaning it is not acceptable to substitute it for an N or for an X or for the number 1.--Speakslowly 04:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. --Ptcamn 05:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


Check this page of my buddy's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_incorporation It's from Describing Morphosyntax by Thomas Payne. I don't know what page he got it from.

[edit] Hi it's the person who wrote about lebanese christians in Shakira's bio

I myself am not Lebanese or Arab and a few years ago I would have thought Lebanese christians are Arabs. The thing is I met a Maronite Lebanese guy who's parents fled from the Arabs (muslims) during their civil war and came to my country. I then started to research the topic and realised that the great history of the Phoenician people, their language and most of their culture has been hidden and destroyed by the Muslims. Look what has happened now in Lebanon. It is wrong. I just think it is time to spread the truth about who the lebanese christians are. It is not fair that they have to die for the crimes of Arabs. Do you understand my point now? [196.11.241.43]

But the article doesn't even mention Arabs, that's an issue you brought up. You're talking about something different. The only difference between a Lebanase and a Christian Lebanese is that a Christian Lebanese is a Christian. Why are we stating the religion of an ethnic group? We don't state that Shakira's mother is a Christian Colombian. We wouldn't describe someone as a Christian American if we were speaking of their national background. Religion and nationality are two different things. I'm fine with stating that she is of that religion, just not in front of the word Lebanese. I feel like you're trying to immediately tell the reader that she is Christian before they read the word "Labanase" in fear that they might think for a second that she's Muslim. The two just don't go together. --Speakslowly 06:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
That is not what I am trying to do. I respect all religions. You still don't understand what I am saying. The thing is that Muslim Lebanese people and Christian Lebanese people are two different ethnicities. The only way to discribe Shakira's father's ethnicity is by calling him a "Lebanese Christian" for lack of a better word. We could call him Phoenician but you know as well as I do that there are many "Arabs" on editing her page. And they dispize the use of the word Phoenician because it tells the reality that Lebanon is not an Arab nation. The Arabs inveded the Phoenician's land. Do you know that in Greek mythology the continent of Europe was named after a Phoenicians princess called "Europa". Do you know that Aphrodite, the Greek goddes of love was a Phoenician? Very far from Arab.
I live in South Africa. I had a friend of Christian Lebanese decent who died a few years ago. That is why this is such an important thing to me. His parents fled from Lebanon during their civil war between the Christians and Muslims, two distinctly different ethnic groups.
Calling them Arabs is live saying an African American is British simply because he speaks english. Please reply to this because it is very important to me. I feel it's time to help the Lebanese Christians who have had to deny them selves in a so called "Arab world" of wich they are not part.
Oh btw I think the so-called "christian Arab" on that discussion forum is either lying on doesnt know the truth. You must understand the way they have been brainwashed. "Christian Arab" is an oxymoron. It isn't possible. Arabs were muslim when they invaded Lebanon, according to Islamic law an Arab who turns to christianity would be stoned to death. Mixing never occured. Oh and btw if you read on Justin Timberlake and many other people's bio. It does say protestant granfather or whatever. I don't see why people have such a problem with it on the Shakira bio. I think their are sinister forces at work. lol [196.11.241.43]
I really don't know much about the difference between the Muslim and Christian Lebanese people, but the term itself seems so divided. I just went to the Lebanon page and it says that the country is composed of three predominant ethnic groups: Muslims, Druze, and Christians. If the country itself considers the correlation between religion as part of a different type of ethnicity (and ethnicity is united based on religion, language, and behaviour) then I guess you've changed my mind. However, do you have proof that Shakira's father is a Christian Lebanese? If you do then we can go ahead and add the term back on the page. By the way Aprodite cannot be a Phoenician because she never existed. Why do you keep insisting on the Arab thing when nobody has mentioned Arabs? By the way a Christian Arab is not an oxymoron, it is possible. An Arab is a person who speaks Arabic and are mainly found in the Middle East. They can be whatever religion they want to be (even if it is against the law in their country. A government cannot force you to believe in something you don't want to, you can always hide your thoughts.) Not all Arabs are Muslims, that is an awful stereotype. I hope that we can reach a consensus, just please try and find a source so that we can declare this problem solved on the discussion page. --Speakslowly 04:31, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


  • Thanx for understanding. Lol btw I meant in Greek mythology Aphrodite was Phoenician (aka Lebanese). And some people believe the Greek Gods were based on people that were in Power at the time. So she could have existed. http://www.phoenician.org/aphrodite_legend.htm

And now the Christian thing. http://shakira.spain.com/bio.html This one even refers to her father as Phoenician: http://www.mididelight.com/pages/138/shakira http://experts.about.com/e/s/sh/Shakira.htm http://www.shakira.ws/index.php Catholic: http://www.ticketspot.com/concert/Shakira.html

There are many more articles on the internet. I am sick of fighting on that forum because a user called Yamla deletes everything I post that supports the "arab" thing and the Christain thing as well. Oh and btw it looks like iI am the only one who has this point of view but there have been many other users who have posted LONG pieces on the subject. But someone deletes it. I think it's the so-called Christan Arab and Yamla. I think such behaviour limits the accuracy, freedom and trust that this encyclopedia sets out to achieve. Is their anywhere things like this can be reported to? Because I am very new to this. I don't think it is fair to delete things in the "Talk" area. How is anything possible if this is done?

Another thing. I do know some people may say Lebanese christians can be called "arab" because of linguistic reasons, but what I argue is that because they do not have ancestry in Arabia, they are not arab. I already made an example like this. But a person who lives in America, is of 100% German decent and speaks only english, isn't British simply because of the language he speaks.

Anyway, whoo lol finally someone who sees some reason. Thanx for for being open do different views. That's what wikipedia is about. ;)

Oh btw yet another thing. If you go to the spanish version of the shakira article you will see it also says her father is of Christian Lebanese decent. "su padre de origen libanés (cristiano)". And I don't speak spanish so it wasnt me lol


      • I was just at the discussion for Shakira. Someone posted this:

There are NO ARABS, it is a LIE

Following is what Professor Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis, an obviously Muslim and Yemeni scholar on the subject has to say quoted by http://phoenicia.org to educated you: (PLEASE DO NOT EDIT OR CHANGE THIS MATERIAL, IF YOU WANT TO BE FAIR MINDED AND SCHOLARLY.)

The only historical truth in this respect is that there are no Arabs at all; there are Arabic speaking peoples with striking dissimilarities that testify to and assure only failures in any attempt at a union among these so different peoples. If this absolute and fundamental historical reality is not widely assessed and understood first, nothing good can come out of the Arab League!!!

In reality, the Lebanese are Phoenicians, who got hellenized and aramaized in Late Antiquity. Arabic speaking Syrians and Iraqis are Aramaeans. So are the Palestinians and the Kuwaitis, as well as the Emirates and the Qataris, who have certainly been intermixed with Persians. Egyptians are Copts, native Egyptians, descendants of the people of Ancient Egypt in their amalgamations with the numerous foreigners, who passed by the valley of the Nile: Aramaeans, Phoenicians, Yemenis, Greeks, Meroitic Sudanese, Romans, and others. Sudanese are descendants of the ancient Meroites and the Nubians. Libyans and the people of the Maghreb are descendants of the Khammitic peoples of the great Atlas, Berbers, in their genuine fusion with Carthaginians and Romans. And Yemenis are Yemenis, descendants of the ancient states of Saba, Qataban, Himyar, Hadramout and other; they are closer to Abyssinians (mistakenly called Ethiopians) than to the Arabs of Hedjaz.

All these peoples, by accepting Islam, sooner or later, started becoming arabized, but this happened at a linguistic, not at a racial, ethnic level. And we know only too well that the Arabs of the times of the Prophet were not numerous at all. One generation later, when let us say Islamic armies were reaching Carthage in today’s Tunisia, Central Asia and the Indus valley, the Muslim fighters were speaking Arabic but among them Arabs were already a minority. Aramaeans from Damascus and Ctesiphon, Egyptians from Alexandria, Yemenis from Muza and Persians from Praaspa were already a majority among them! They learnt the language of Quran, but they did not and could not change their racial and ethnic origin.

And never forget that if one tries to speak of racial mixture, at the times of the Prophet all the Arabs were not exceeding in number the population of just one Aramaic, Egyptian or Persian city (namely Tadmor, Alexandria, or Istakhr).

The Copts (Christians) of Egypt and the ‘Assyrians’ and ‘Chaldaeans’ of Iraq and Iran show very well what happened: those who remained Christians preserved initially their language (Coptic and Aramaic – Syriac) and lost it gradually in later dates. Among the people who accepted Islam in the early period, only Persians preserved their language. This is not strange, since the great cultural phenomenon of Ferdowsi gives us an insightful understanding of the subject. If Copts and Aranaeans had not been christianized and if they had kept a national traditional historical record of their glorious past, they would have resulted into a different perception of Islam, preserving their original languages and developing epics similar to Shahnameh.

Because this did not happen, we have the current situation, but this does not mean that these peoples are Arabs, or that a kind of union can be based on falsely perceived history and tons of misinformation and disinformation that was mostly due to colonial powers, mainly France and England, in their efforts against Islam and the Ottoman Empire.

It is from Western Europe that nationalism emanated. And as such, it caused serious problems to peoples of the East and the West, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and others. The confusion spread throughout the territories of the Ottoman Empire finds its equivalent in the disaster of the Irish, the Scots, the Corsicans and the Celts of Brittany. Actually, it leads to nowhere.

Earlier one understands this, sooner one escapes from the traps that led millions to wars and disaster.

Source:

   * Prof. Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis is a prominent Orientalist and Egyptologist, A word on European and African Unions, email: mhmd7shams7meg@yahoo.fr

Copyright © 2003 Yemen Times: Yemen's most widely read English newspaper | yementimes.com

          • I don't know who psted it but I am showing you this in case someone deletes it. Which tey probably will so. Just so you see that someone is deleting these things.
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