Talk:Speed (disambiguation)

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[edit] Places named Speed

I want to explain why the school and the museum are included before they are removed again. In the context of the school, it is frequently said by people who went to UofL, "I attended Speed" or "I went to Speed". In the context of the museum, people say "The new exhibit is at the Speed". We must take into account people from the Louisville area, where Speed is a well-known historical family name, just entering 'Speed' when searching. Including these entries does no damage, and are in complete compliance with disambiguation guidelines. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 17:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:CITE, WP:RS, colleague. My son goes to school and he says "I will go to school", but I will not add "Meyerholz school" into school (disambiguation) just because this school is called simply "school" in the neighborhood. That Speed is a well-known family name, you should have no troubles in fiding good references about both school and museum instead of engaging in a revert war. Wikipedia rules are for good reason, not just because I decided to bug you because I don't like your haircut. `'mikka 22:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no requirement in disambiguation guidelines for what you're asking for. That the places are named Speed is proven by the articles and their references. There's no requirement that I prove that people call them by "Speed" alone. This "edit war" as it were is due to your insistence on irrational exclusion. I'm keeping items that clearly belong. Can you not see the word 'speed' at the front of the subject names (or former names)? I am following the convention of all other disambiguations in the Wikipedia, and since I've been here about three years, you would have to think I know what I'm talking about. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 22:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

This seems like a rather odd dispute. I could understand maybe if the list was huge, but it's still a fairly reasonable size. This doesn't seem like a WP:V or WP:CITE issue. If anything, it might be a notability issue. -- Ned Scott 23:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be easy for anyone to assess they are indeed notable. I thought the existence of the article, especially long-standing articles, and especially of subjects representing places that have been around for a very long time would qualify without question. These aren't exactly "fly-by-night" places. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 23:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Further, these places are named after James Breckenridge Speed, a notable Louisville philanthropist who was the son of James Speed, Lincoln's Attorney General. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 23:59, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't mean notable as topics, but notable as in, having a notable association with the name "Speed". Considering the word speed is in the full name, it's a fairly reasonable assumption (which, for a disambig page, is all you would need). Of course I can see such reasoning being abused, but Mikkalai seems... rather odd about his objection. -- Ned Scott 00:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

in Wikipedia everyting is a WP:CITE issue. Either you prove it, or go away. Imagine I create a redirect Jeebies to JBS School and start claiming it is called so. `'mikka 00:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Your position for such a requirement has no basis. These places are obviously named Speed. It's right there in front of your eyes. I have done no renaming as you oddly suggest. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 00:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

We don't cite gravity when we say something fell down.. -- Ned Scott 00:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

haha very funny. Yes, we cite, in wikipedia, I mean, if we say something fell down when in doubt whether it was because of gravity or because of stupidity. `'mikka 02:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Again, there's nothing to cite. Speed = Speed. I'm not trying to add "Spiedie Art Museum" as you strain to suggest I'm doing. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 03:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

My point is that there is a certain level of "no-shit-sherlock" on Wikipedia. I've never seen anything that says a disambig page requires citation for naming issues, especially when the article being listed contains the word "speed". If you want to argue something then argue this point mentioned on WP:DAB. Disambiguation pages aren't stating facts about the general topics, they're stating facts about the title of other Wikipedia pages. It might not be appropriate to include every page that contains a word in it's name, but that is a different issue than WP:V or WP:CITE. Another argument would be that J. B. Speed School of Engineering doesn't list references on it's actual article. Asking for the references on the dab page itself is out of the norm. -- Ned Scott 03:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

There should be no question (a la "no-shit-sherlock") that Speed is the primary/distinctive name for these places. It's obvious that the primary/distinctive names for art museums, schools and other places are used by themselves on occasion by English speakers to refer to such places. This is what anyone thinking in the neighborhood of rationality would accept.

Also, point taken on the Speed School references. The external link to the school site probably backs up most of the article, but you're right that it should be more explicit in some cases. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 04:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

OK seems like Ned have found a reasonable solution here. Thanks. Of course, if J. B. Speed School of Engineering will have a reputable quote to say that the school is commonly called "Speed" (just like Gdańsk article says that it is also called Danzig) this will provide a justification for disambiguation. `'mikka 04:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I am going to permanently protect this page from further reverts. I've already made all the points that are necessary for inclusion of these entries. I am convinced that you are game playing. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 04:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I was quite patient with you several last days. Since you ignored an excellent solution proposed by Ned Scott, I am going to delete the questioned entries unless you provide the necessary confirmation in the nearest 5 days. If you protect the page, I am afraid I will have to report the admin abuse (if you are an admin), together with blatant violation of the verty basic policy of wikipedia:Verifiability and WP:CITE. Once again, a person from Bombay has no reason to believe you that "J. B. Speed School of Engineering" is called "Speed". A reference somewhere in wikipeida or out. `'mikka 01:31, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Ned Scott will need to clarify the solution. At any rate, there is no requirement to prove that a place called "Speed" is called "Speed", as it is an obvious point. If you remove the entries, I will indeed have no choice but to escalate the matter using proper Wikipedia procedures. Again, your position is not in accordance with any known guidelines. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 18:32, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I am under no obligation to prove the obvious, but here a few valid sources for including the places named Speed:

• Speed Art Museum - [1] - Mainstream business newspaper calls the museum "the Speed" in four spots in one article.
• J. B. Speed School of Engineering (formerly called Speed Scientific School, which I can verify by uploading an image of my 1989 degree!)
  • Speed School Student Council, where on the page it says "Speed News" and "Speed Students".
  • The school's newsletter, widely circulated to alumni, is called "Speed Engineer". [2]

Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 19:43, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

We probably have very different opinions about what is obvious and what is not, and what needs references. Anyway, your findings rightfully belong to the respective articles. Since you are stubborn enough not to place them there and prefer to fight with me instead, I will gladly do it myself. `'mikka 00:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)