Talk:Spanish conjugation

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I'm thinking this should be moved to Spanish conjugation. — Chameleon 21:47, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Spanish verb conjugation would be better IMHO. My advice: check other "conjugation" articles. There's Latin conjugation and Portuguese verb conjugation, but I don't know what else. --Pablo D. Flores 02:18, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"X verb conjugation" is redundant. They should all be at "X conjugation". — Chameleon 08:22, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't agree. It is kind of redundant, but only in the sense as "lawn mower" is redundant (what else are you going to mow?). Do you think "noun declension" is redundant too? "Spanish verb conjugation" shows up 7650 times in Google; "Spanish conjugation" only a 10% of that. "Verb conjugation" alone pops up more than 75000 times (12000 times in a USENET group search). I'm not a fan of Google for this, but see Wikipedia:Google test. I also believe "XXX verb conjugation" is a more suggestive title, because it works well with main articles called "XXX verbs". I do agree that "paradigm" might be too much of a word. --Pablo D. Flores 11:08, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"Lawnmower" is more of a fused compound, sometimes even written as one word. "Verb conjugation" isn't. "Noun declension" isn't a good analogy because there is "adjectival declension" too. "Spanish verb conjugation" just has an annoying extra word to type. "Conjugation" already has four syllables and eleven letters, more than "lawnmower" has even including its redundant "lawn". The only good argument is that Google has more results for "Spanish verb conjugation", but that just shows that people say a lot of redundant stuff. They say "P[ersonal]I[dentification]N[umber] number" too. — Chameleon 12:55, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
As you say, people say a lot of redundant stuff. "Verb conjugation" is redundant and yet it is used throughout language teaching sites, linguistics sites, etc., and it is common use, exactly like "PIN number". I'm not sure there's a specific Wikipedia policy on this, but as long as a name is common use and not inaccurate or POV, I think it should be OK to title an article like that. I have no emotional attachment to "verb conjugation", so I'm fine with either title. If you still choose to move the page to the new title, please check the inward links. --Pablo D. Flores 13:32, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Negative imperatives needed?

For completeness, shouldn't the tables contain the negative imperative forms, which are different for tú and vosotros? Perhaps this point is made in another article, but since this article is supposed to be a more or less comprehensive summary of verb forms, I would think these forms should be included here.Tawagoto 03:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

All that is needed is to say that the negative imperative makes use of the subjuntivo: "no ames", "no temas", "no partas". You provably mean tu and vos; yes, its same for both. Mariano(t/c) 09:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I meant "tu/vos" AND "vosotros". According to the "Spanish verbs" article, the negative imperative for vosotros is different from the positive imperative. I understand that the negative imperative forms for tu/vos and vosotros make use of the respective present subjunctive forms. However, since this is an otherwise comprehensive table useful as a quick-glance reference, we might as well fill in the forms explicitly. (After all, by the previous poster's reasoning, we could skip the Imperative cells altogether and explain in a footnote that the positive "tu" imperative is the same as the third person present indicative, and so on, but that would defeat the purpose of the table.) Tawagoto 13:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] tú / vos

The tables seem incomplete in this regard. I book I have entitled "1001 Pitfalls in Spanish" (Barron's, (c) 1986) makes the following points:

  1. The present indicative of the vos form varies from the tú form. This is already reflected in the tables of the regular verbs here. However, the vos form (indeed, the heading vos) is missing from most of the irregular verb tables.
  2. The present SUBJUNCTIVE form also varies. This is not included in any of the tables. For regular verbs, the forms would be amés, temás, partás.
  3. The affirmative IMPERATIVE also varies. You drop the -d of the vosotros imperative form and accent the final vowel: amá, temé, recibí.
  4. The negative imperative is the same as the present subjunctive, although the tú form can also be used: no amés (no ames); no temás (no temas); no partás (no partas).

I would be grateful if someone who knows what he/she is doing could fill these forms in. Tawagoto 19:51, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

in Rioplatense Spanish, the vos person is conjugeted as tu for for the present subjuntive. I don't think the negative imperative can be used with the affirmative form; if so, it is surely not used.
I will add the affirmative imperative for vos. Mariano(t/c) 08:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
When yo uthink you know your language...
I haven't been able to complete the table with Affirmative and Negative imperatives of vos for the verbs haber and ir. I can't think an example of a phrase with Haber in imperative, except Hete aquí (which I'm not sure to be the case) Anyway, I don't known how would that be for vos, perhaps just the same.
For ir, well, to send someone somewere we say andá (andar). I don't know how to selve this 2 examples. Mariano(t/c) 11:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Looks good. (Having forgotten to log in...) I separated the imperative row into affirmative and negative rows for the other verb tables. Please feel free to check these. I wasn't sure about the the reflexive forms for the negative imperative of estar, so you may want to fill them in. Thanks. Tawagoto 12:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some things

1. I put the Spanish names of conjugation forms, only the first verb if you don't agree or it must be changed.

2. Conditional is also indicative.

3. The pronouns must be after the imperative:

come tú/vos, comed vosotros.

4. what about composed forms, such as present perfect?--Daniel bg 16:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] imperative of haber

As far as I can tell, the tú form of the imperative of haber should be "hé," not "he." Also, I'm a bit confused about the imperative of haber, in general. I don't understand how it could be translated, and sites vary in their explanations. One site claims that haber doesn't even exist in the imperative form. There are also some confusing notes on http://www.123teachme.com/learn_spanish/interrogative_pronouns_adjectives , which states the following:

"Given as a form only, as Haber has no Imperative Mood in modern Spanish, except in Héme, héte, héle, aquí, etc. (here I am, here thou art, here he is, etc.), and in some other rare cases.

In Spanish there is no imperative negative, the Pres. Subj. negative being used instead, as:

  • =Hablar=. No hables (do not (thou) speak).
  • No habléis (do not (you) speak).]"

Can anyone clarify this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.38.224.100 (talk • contribs).

I believe the imperative negative is quite covered. For the imperative of Haber, it is true that it is not (commonly) used. We should find a qualified source on the topic first (RAE?) --Mariano(t/c) 11:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Suggestion External Link

Found a nice site which I think will compliment this article. Not so much on the theory, rather the Spanish read along(on the Español tab), and the Spanish verb trainer. http://www.spanishdaddy.com/Presente.aspx What do you think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.46.202.189 (talk) 09:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

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