Talk:Southern Ocean

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[edit] Southern Ocean?

When did the Southern Ocean come into being? I thought Antarctica was surrounded by the Pacific Ocean, Indian Ocean, and the South Atlantic. I have never heard of a 'southern ocean' until I visited Wikipedia, having always been taught there were only four.

  • Did you read the article? Try the first three sentences. :-) Fawcett5 18:46, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I didn't know about the new designation until recently, either. This would make an excellent candidate for Featured Article.


I agree, I just stumbled upon this 'fifth' ocean as well. WTF?

"Only 28 of the world's 193 nations responded to the IHO survey in 2000, with just 18 voting for a new name, 'Southern Ocean.'"

18 countries? They can't just start inventing new oceans! There's only four in my book.

Well i was always taught that Australia was surrounded by three oceans- Pacific, Indian and Southern Soundabuser 13:32, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

"They can't just start inventing new oceans!" -- It's simply a redefinition. What do you think about the metric system, which was defined in the 19th century? Even the English system, which was defined at one point, whereas before that time it was undefined. Do you measure a piece of paper by the number of thumb lengths that can fit end to end? D. F. Schmidt 16:51, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

In school we were taught Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, and Arctic. Jude86 17:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


Geography is not important in defining oceans today. It's oceanography that defines them.

Regional Oceanography: an Introduction by M. Tomczak and J. S. Godfrey, p64 (PDF):

Many oceanographers refer to the region around the continent of Antarctica as the Southern Ocean. The International Hydrographic Bureau, which is the authority responsible for the naming of oceanic features, does not recognize a sub-region of the world ocean of that name but includes its various parts in the other three oceans.
...
From an oceanographic point of view, subdivisions of the world ocean should reflect regional differences in its dynamics. The Southern Ocean certainly deserves its own name on that ground.

On the other hand, what is called the Arctic Ocean is not an ocean oceanographically.

p83:

It does not take much to realize that the impact of the Arctic region on the circulation and water masses of the World Ocean differs substantially from that of the Southern Ocean. The major reason is found in the topography. The Arctic Seas belong to a class of ocean basins known as mediterranean seas (Dietrich et al., 1980).

Oceanographers therefore define four (not five) oceans: the Pacific, the Atlantic, the Indian, and the Southern Oceans. I have added the book to the reference section of the article. - TAKASUGI Shinji 02:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


Takasugi wrote, "Geography is not important in defining oceans today. It's oceanography that defines them."
I respectfully disagree. It is geography, not oceanography. Oceanography is to the geography of oceans as geology is the the geography of land. Asking oceanographers to redefine the maps of the oceans based on the composition of the water is like asking geologists to redefine the maps of the continents based on the composition of the rocks. It's out of their purview.
The [Encarta] definition of "geography" says that it is "the study of all the physical features of the Earth's surface," which is correct. The four oceans are the most prominant physical features of all, which makes this an issue of geography, not oceanography. Oceanographers have no business trying to redefine the geography of the earth. NCdave 11:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Climate heading

Does "drainage winds" refer to katabatic wind? D. F. Schmidt (talk) 07:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

should somebody not mention about "Antarctica Ocean" as a alternate name

Wouldn't that be "Antartic Ocean"? Yes, that's the name I was taught at school. Jimp 19Oct05

[edit] Ports and harbours

Palmer harbour's should link to Palmer (harbour) or Palmer harbour or some such, rather than a disambiguation page Palmer. Which one would be better? D. F. Schmidt (talk) 08:08, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] another name

should somebody not mention about "Antarctica Ocean" as an alternate name [anon edit from 65.219.235.99]

Can you cite a source for that? I will add the alternate name if you can show me that "Antarctica ocean" is used by some number of people. Cheers – Fudoreaper 21:22:01, 2005-09-11 (UTC)
  • I've never heard of the southern ocean before, but here everyone just calls it Antarctica ocean. It should at least be mentioned. Elfguy 03:10, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
  • I've never heard of "Antarctic Ocean" (and "Antarctica ocean" just looks plain wrong); but there are many, many references in the sailing literature to it as the "Southern Ocean". — Johan the Ghost seance 14:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
The term Antarctic Ocean was once used. See the following excerpt of Encyclopædia Britannica: Antarctic Ocean. IHO has decided to call it Southern Ocean officially. - TAKASUGI Shinji 02:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
In fifty years of life, nor as both an avid recreational and professional sailor of thirty years plus, have I've ever heard of the 'Southern Ocean', nor seen it in print until two minutes ago following it's strange occurence in a Regions of the world template. It must be some newfangled invention by academics that is somehow percieved to be less incorrect or more P.C.! My recent atlas specifically mentions the equivilence: "There are five major oceans of the world— the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, Artic, and Antartic (also known as the Southern or South Polar Ocean)." (Note the slight spelling differences.)
Book cite follows: [1999] (2002 reprinted in 2004) "The Oceans", in Editors: List @ Random House, Ltd.: [n/a "Geographica, The complete illustrated Atlas of the world"] (softcover), Barnes & Noble Books (edition), 2004 reprinting of 2002 (in English), Auckland, Australia: Random House Australia Pty Ltd, 618. ISBN 076075974X. “"There are five major oceans of the world— the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, Artic, and Antartic (also known as the Southern or South Polar Ocean)."” 
  • So, I'm adding these alternate terms. Historical reference works and the corpus of printed literature far outweigh the internet and P.C. modern foolishness and 'recent fashion', and we must keep such references. // FrankB 23:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terrain

quite why the phrase 'this is gay' appeared at the end of the terrain section is a mystery....i've removed this homophobic slur from the entry. ahpook 15:11, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, I didn't write it, so I don't know what the intent was. It could have been simple vandalism. But it might have been an allusion to the redefinition of the word "gay," from its traditional meaning of "merry and cheerful," to its recent meaning of "homosexual."
The redefinition of the word "gay" had nothing to do with science, and everything to do with politics. Similarly, it seems that the attempt to redefine the oceans is also motivated, at least in part, by politics. For proof see M dorothy's contribution, here: [1]. NCdave 01:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Southern Ocean" mmm-hmm....

the "Southern Ocean" is not in any history or geography book on the planet. a bunch of ricj countries cannot just get together and decide crap like this. there is no "southern" ocean...

Agreed. Real oceans are separated from one another primarily by land masses, just as real continents are separated from one another by seas and mountain ranges. This imaginary ocean is bounded by... oceans?
How silly! You might as well declare the creation of the new continent of Atlantic, consisting of the coastal areas surrounding the Atlantic Ocean, formerly thought to be parts of North & South America, Africa, and Europe. NCdave 12:36, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
It was mentioned in World Book 2003 (or was it 2004?). Dreyfus2006 14:31, sometime in February (I'm not signed in)

[edit] Difference in Names

I grew up in the 70s and we were taught there were 5 oceans. Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, Arctic and Antarctic Oceans.

By the early 80s in college the Arctic ocean was moved to be simply an "arm" of the Atlantic Ocean, the way the Baltic and the Black Sea are part of the Arctic.

Times change standards change. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.40.152.37 (talk) 00:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC).

Where did you grow up? NCdave 22:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History?

Compared to the Pacific Ocean article this article has no history of early exploration - anyone interested/know good sources? SatuSuro 15:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

That's because it's hard to have early exploration of something that was just invented six years ago. NCdave 12:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
heheh thats one way of thinking about it - the point is the physical southern ocean never got invented - its always been there... SatuSuro 01:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
And missing the point - antartic ocean redireccts here - so your point is a bit strange...SatuSuro 01:49, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Looking more at the other ocean articles - the lack of adequate history about the earlier form Antartic Ocean and the current named Southern Ocean makes this article the poorer cousin SatuSuro 04:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asian Ocean?

Recently, a full-sized ocean has been discovered under Asia.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/070228_beijing_anomoly.html

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