Talk:Southern Baptist Convention

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[edit] Who removed the statement on eternal hellfire?

That is absolutely true, even more so today. A baptist minister should be ashamed to remove such information since it is true. 213.96.18.235 23:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I removed the reference to eternal hellfire. I have been a member of four SBC churches and I currently am the pastor at a fifth and I cannot recall a single time that a preacher made mention of "eternal hellfire" in the invitation. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen (I may be forgetting the few times it occured) but it does mean that it is not common enough to be a part of the "Practices" section of the SBC encyclopedic article. Eugeneacurry 04:23, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed - I was raised in and have been a member of Southern Baptist churches my entire (39 year) life, all of them in Texas, and I can't recall any time this was mentioned in an invitation. Maybe I was lucky to be in the "right" kind (read moderate) churches. Chfowler 15:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bad Link to Jack Graham

The link to Jack Graham in the Prominent Southern Baptists Section (Jack Graham, pastor of the 25,000 member Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, Texas.) links to a biography of another person, not Pastor Graham. I just thought the article creator or someone otherwise might want to fix it.

[edit] Conservative Resurgence

The whole section on the "Conservative Resurgence" completely violates the neutral viewpoint principle. The title itself suggests the writer's bias. Those on the moderate side of the convention would refer to it as the "Conservative Takeover" - just as biased, but a valid viewpoint. Reverting the section back to the previous "Factions" text, would be closer to the neutral view.

I would also like to correct what I perceive as an error. The article states that the BGCT was the first State convention to remove itself from the SBC (1998) and that this did not cause a schism in the SBC. That is not entirely true. The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship was created in 1991 by moderate voices in the Southern Baptist Convention, as a reaction to the "Conservative Takeover." Many felt that the SBC was moving away from traditional Baptist distinctives and attempting to create a hierarchical, creedal denomination. For further information about the CBF and its work, please see: http://www.thefellowship.info.

[edit] Paul Pressler

The Paul Pressler article that "The Controversy" section links to is the wrong Paul Pressler. Information about the SBC-related Judge Paul Pressler can be found on sourcewatch.org, on amazon.com, in the About The Author section, and The Council for National Policy: Selected Member Biographies. Also, his first book, A Hill On Which To Die, contains significant biographical information.

[edit] help!!!!

I need more SBC people listed at conservative Christianity

[edit] Removed from article

I found the following contribution (in context, actual edit in italics):

It has 1,200 local associations, 41 state conventions and fellowships, and supports thousands of missionaries worldwide (over NOT TEN THOUSAND SOME IDIOT LIED SOMEBODY NEEDS TO FIX THIS AIM FOR LESS THAN TEN THOUSAND in 2003).

I reverted the article to its prior version, but would someone (who can type in both upper & lower case) research this & make the necessary changes -- with the necessary citations? -- llywrch 23:07, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Llywrch, I found the following at http://www.sbc.net/missionswork.asp

• Through the International Mission Board, Southern Baptists support 4,946 international missionaries in 153 different countries. Southern Baptist's North American Mission Board helped to send out 5,081 missionaries in North America last year and help start over 1,700 new churches.

I'm not a Southern Baptist and not a particular fan of their way of doing missions. BUT if I can add correctly the Southern Baptists support 10027 missionaries in some fashion - which is over 10,000 (assuming that none of the missionaries supported by the International & North American Boards are the same). In case the 2003 date is incorrect, I am changing it to 2005 (assuming that the site is current). - Rlvaughn 20:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Liturgical??

Usually in the social sciences (especially Political Science) the term “mainline denominations” refers to liturgical churches, e.g. Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, and the like. xx

The mainline churches include both liturgical and pietistic. The SBC started out as mostly pietistic but I think it has become increasingly liturgical (with emphasis on powerful ministers, role of Baptism, separate communion, anti-heresy etc). Rjensen 10:48, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Partisan books?

Someone added -- Jerry Sutton, The Baptist Reformation: The Conservative Resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention -- under the heading partisan books. Are we to assume that there is no bias in any of the other secondary sources listed in the article?

Partisan means the goal of a book is to argue for one side or the other. Sutton's publisher claims the book is "a testimony and an expression of gratitude to those who worked to bring about the Baptist Reformation" [Amazon.com]. That is it clearly takes sides, arguing one side is right and the other side is wrong. That makes it "partisan". The category says nothing about "bias" -- Wiki is NOT supposed to tell the reader which side is right or wrong. Rjensen 03:26, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia stays NPOV by presenting multiple views of an issue. The book reference is fine and should not be separated. Other view points can be added to balance out the article if needed. Separating out the book is pov. --FloNight 19:34, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV Header

I'm removing the NPOV header, as no discussion was added to this talk page by the person who added it. I personally think the article is pretty even-handed. Chfowler 19:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading Date

From the "Controversies in SBC history" section, next to last paragraph, "This change in control, termed the "Conservative Resurgence" by supporters and the "Fundamentalist Takeover" by detractors, culminated in the adoption of significant changes to the Baptist Faith and Message at the 2000 SBC Annual Meeting. At this point, the moderates then formed the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (CBF)," -This implies that the CBF began in 2000 when it actually began in 1991.

[edit] Southern Baptism Founded on Slavery

Why no mention of slavery except for one sentence? Slavery was the PRIMARY reason Southern baptists split with Northern baptists. The issue of slavery needs to be expanded greatly since it was a major part of Southern baptist history. You cannot escape history. Here are sources to get you started.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NXG/is_1_37/ai_94160891

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n21_v112/ai_17332136

http://www.highbeam.com/library/docfree.asp?DOCID=1G1:17094060&ctrlInfo=Round19%3AMode19b%3ADocG%3AResult&ao=

http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/sbc.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_United_States

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/043.html

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/religion/bible_slavery.html

Agreed. The history section should cover the reasons to why there is a branch of Soutern Baptism— the most obvious reason was the congregations of the North and South's differing beliefs on slavery under Christianity. As an African American historian and somewhat of a Southern Baptist, I would like to see these history issues covered in detail. —№tǒŖïøŭş4lĭfė ♫♪

[edit] Dakota Fanning

Dakota Fanning is a Southern Baptist? Does anybody know where this information came from? Is it true? A hoax? This is the first time I've ever seen this mentioned and I couldn't find any verification of it. Tsm1128 21:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Footwashing?

Do the Southern Baptists practice footwashing? Not as a standard practice.

Okay.

But some Baptists groups do so--General Association of General Baptists for example [Randall Balmer, Encyclopedia of Evangelicalism 2004 p 285] and the Original Free-Will Baptists and esp the United Baptists in Kentucky. [New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia p 477] Rjensen 19:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks again. I believe Primitive Baptists do too.

Feet washing is not a widespread practice of churches within the Southern Baptist Convention, but some churches do practice it. The most notable areas would be in north Alabama, north Georgia, and on up into the Appalachias. Even in these places, though, it is a minority practice. - Rlvaughn 03:56, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] McBeth Citation under Birth Pains

I just added this citation. I know this is talked about in this book, having read it a few month ago, but I don't have the exact page number. I also don't know how to make references that use the ref tag to show up at the bottom of the page. Help is appreciated. --Nhoj 11:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reformed?

Anyone know the history of the convention and reformed theology? Akubhai 15:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Most SBC church (if they have actually sat down and thought about it) would likely stake out some sort of theological position with a significant Reformed flavor (Perseverance of the Saints is even enshrined in the Baptist Faith and Message). But even so thoroughgoing Reformed theology has been and continues to be a source of controversy within the convention. Some (like Albert Mohler) consider themselves Reformed, others (like the late Adrian Rogers) not only eschew such an identity but vigorously oppose such ideas. Eugeneacurry 18:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)