Talk:Southeast Asia Treaty Organization

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[3/23/06 12:12 AM] Corrected some typos in the original draft.

Contents

[edit] Graphic is wrong

need to adjust / edit graphic to show all members it is misleading.

[edit] graphic missing Republic of Korea

ROK/South Korea should be colored in. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.125.57.218 (talk) 19:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

  • Done. Also added more info to differentiate between founding members and non founding members, and those that stayed put until '77 and those that didn't.Paj.meister 12:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

I've started an infobox, hopefully something similar to that on NATO. Any contribution with more (often evasive) info is 0of course welcome! Paj.meister 09:43, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


South East Asia Treaty Organisation

Flag of SEATO.
Flag of SEATO.

SEATO countries are in purple.
SEATO countries are in purple.
Formation 1954
Headquarters Bangkok, Thailand
Membership 9


I took the liberty of doing a major rewrite of this article. One thing I altered was the membership list: neither South Vietnam nor South Korea were ever members.

Also, I am not certain why the Falklands Islands (located in the South Atlantic) were listed as a member of SEATO. The Falklands are a political dependency of the United Kingdom, and does not have its own foreign policy.

I used the 1968 Encyclopedia Britannica and several volumes of the World Almanac (1959-1977 as my basic sources.

Also, at this point, the map is incorrect (re South Vietnam and South Korea. I am not certain how to change it.

I also changed the reference to the author of the containment policy from John Foster Dulles to George F. Kennan. Since the original article correctly noted that the containment policy was an outgrowth of the Truman Doctrine, this was done in the Truman Administration (which included Kennan in the State Department Policy Planning Division); Dulles served as Secretary of State in the Eisenhower Administration.

I will continue to do research for any additional information that should be inserted in this article.

Sorry, I hit the "send" button too quickly. The above was written by NelsonLB 04:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

The Falklands was someone's idea of a joke. However: South Korea I'm not sure about, but I would be almost certain that South Vietnam was a member, I mean the establishment of North Vietnam was the main reason why SEATO was formed. Are you sure we aren't just listing founding members in the article and ignoring those who joined later? Regards, Grant65 | Talk 05:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, let me do some more checking on that!74.134.12.144 05:24, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I've edited the image, so it only has the founding members.Paj.meister 12:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WPMILHIST Assessment

Though perhaps a bit short, it does technically fulfill all the requirements of a B-class article, so congrats. And good work on the map! I'm really not sure how to handle task forces on these types of things, as the subject is far from centrally important to the history/politics of many member countries (UK, US) - if we had a SE Asian task force... LordAmeth 14:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

While doing some earlier changes, I raised the issue of the membership of SEATO not including either South Korea or South Vietnam. This assertion was questioned by one of my learned colleagues. Accordingly, as promised, I did some further research on this point over the last two weeks.

The reference materials I consulted included the World Almanacs for 1958 (p. 774), 1960 (p. 826), 1965 (pp. 155 and 213), 1967 (p. 682), 1968 (p. 549), 1969 (pp. 316 and 573), 1972 (p. 593), and 1973(p. 631); the Reader's Digest Almanacs for 1967 (p. 904), 1968 (p.60), 1969 (p. 832), and 1971 (p. 312); the Information Please Almanacs for 1958 (p. 60), 1959 (p. 66), 1960 (p. 464 and map on pp 180-181), and 1970 (p. 559 and the map on 242-243); The 1961 American Peoples' Encyclopedia Yearbook for 1960 (p. 826); The Times [of London] Atlas of World History (published 1978) (p. 328); The American Annual for 1958 (pp. 713-714), and the Encyclopedia Britannica Book of the Year for 1966 (p. 693). I also checked several websites, including the on-line Encyclopedia Britannica.

(Let me explain that I collect old almanacs, so I had all of these in my basement.)

In every listing about SEATO in these materials the members of the organization listed were the original founding members: France, the United Kingdom, the United States, Pakistan, Thailand, the Philippine Islands, Australia, and New Zealand. In no listing was either South Korea or South Vietnam included as a member. In no listing was there any mention of any other country joining the original eight in the organization.

Part of the confusion may be that South Korean troops did fight (pursuant to American diplomatic pressure and while being paid for and equipped by the American government)in Vietnam. However, they did so as an American ally, not because of any SEATO membership. The Allied Forces (as they were called) in Vietnam did not fight under any kind of SEATO command.

South Vietnam was not a member of SEATO as a result of the 1954 Geneva Accords, which forbade it from joining any military alliances. I do not have a good single citation on this, but I have seen this point referenced several times, and I will find a specific citation to it.

I submit this to my colleagues as a documented substantiation of the membership list for SEATO, and accordingly will change the listing in the article. I have a more technically gifted friend who is going to modify the map. Regards,NelsonLB 04:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Further research resulted in the determination that South Vietnam was prohibited from joining any military alliances (e.g., SEATO) by Article 19 of the Agreement to End Hostilities in Vietnam and Paragraph 5 of the Final Declaration, both of which emerged from the Geneva Conference of 1954. This is the reason that South Vietnam was not a member of SEATO, even though SEATO was created in response to the West's concern about the expansion of communism in southeast Asia.NelsonLB 08:24, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dulles

Isn't John Foster Dulles the architect of SEATO? --Noypi380 08:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think it is fair to say that Secretary fo State John Foster Dulles (1953-1959)was the main architect of SEATO. In the original article, Dulles was credited with being the architect of the "containment policy." This was actually started in the Truman Administration, with the intellectual basis created in 1946, the date of Kennan's famous "Long Telegram" from Moscow. Do you think the article should mention that Dulles was the lead architect of SEATO (and in a way the architect of the application of the containment policy to southeast Asia)? NelsonLB 00:56, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Dulles should be mentioned for that. :-) --Noypi380 12:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I haven't done this yet, because I am gathering some other material to add with it, but I will soon. NelsonLB 05:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

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