Talk:South Moluccas
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
South Moluccas is part of WikiProject Indonesia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Indonesia and Indonesia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page. Please do not substitute this template.
|
| Stub | This article has been rated as stub-Class on the quality scale. |
| Low | This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale. |
|
|
|
[edit] Merger
I've merged Republik Maluku Selatan into South Moluccas because the two articles were about the same subject. I could have merged them into the Republik Maluku Selatan instead, but chose not to because we don't (or shouldn't) have articles for "Republik Indonesia", "Bundesrepublik Deutschland", "Republique Francaise", etc. I was around in the 1970s when the South Moluccans were blowing up trains in the Netherlands, and I recall that they were called "South Moluccans". I don't think that Republik Maluku Selatan was in common use in English-language media. Kevintoronto 19:25, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- ... which is really the explanation I was looking for. I seen that you've gone and bypassed the redirects, too, so I guess we're set. siafu 19:29, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I should have posted that explanation at the same time I merged, although not much time has elapsed. If you or someone else has a good reason for moving the merged article to Republik Maluku Selatan, it won't be difficult switching eveything over. There aren't that many links to the article. Kevintoronto 19:35, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- One more comment on the name. Around 1969, I came across some stamps printed with the name "Republik Maluku Selatan" and was unable to find a reference to them in any published stamp books (Scott's catalogs) or encyclopedias of the time. The stamps were not official (and could be fakes), so that might explain it, but all English sources did refer to the Moluccas, which I concluded was the same as Maluku. Of course, today that connection is trivial to make. I still have the stamps. The images are probably not copyrighted, so maybe I'll upload them. -- Slowmover 17:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- I should have posted that explanation at the same time I merged, although not much time has elapsed. If you or someone else has a good reason for moving the merged article to Republik Maluku Selatan, it won't be difficult switching eveything over. There aren't that many links to the article. Kevintoronto 19:35, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Also, the Wikipedia Style Guide recommends using English versions of place names where they are available. While an argument could be made that the RMS was an organization, and not a country, I don't agree. While I am not an expert in the RMS, I think that it would be more accurate to describe the RMS as a would-be country, and the organization fighting for its independence as the "RMS government-in-exile". Kevintoronto 20:07, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I am a Moluccan, and I can tell you that it was an organization. Not all people of Moluccas supported them then, and most of people here reject the provocation. South Moluccas incident was a trial of rebellion, and not a country forming. Moluccas is clearly a part of Indonesia now and then. 19 Apr 2006 -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.120.116.249 (talk • contribs).
[edit] Article upgrade
In recent days I have attempted to upgrade the article by giving it more structure, eliminating gram errors, adding some recent info and moving the picture (flag) to the correct section. The South Moluccas being a geo part of the Indonesian islands and the RMS being an organisation related to this geo area. However when re-reading certain elements remain somewhat contentious. The often repeated self proclaimed/declared republic (RMS) sounds a tat biased as in a historic timeframe that would also be applicable for the Republic of Indonesia. But isnt used as such for RI. JOHN NATHANN 18:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I recognized this too, thanks a lot for your effort. I'm myself a moluccan, I built most of the data here, however due to my english limitation it was hard to put all together in a nice writing. What you did is highly appreciated, this article is much better now. ( BlueCall 02:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC) )
The part of "self proclaimed/declared" seems important to me, to avoid the misunderstanding that can see South Moluccas Republic as victim of Indonesia's colonialism. It is necessary to stress the fact that this was an act of rebellion of small group of people, rather than a struggle of a nation. The history was clear that even most of Moluccans did not support this movement at that time. ( BlueCall 03:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC) )
Yr welcome. I have some friends who are fluent in Dutch and im told that in the Dutch language there appears to be a great amount of reference material (and further reading in general) available about this topic. I will also look for some historic pictures that cld enhance the articles cosmetics. JOHN NATHANN 15:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Grammar
Hi BlueCall, hope you like the images. I think I understand most amendments you made to the sentences (tue 27mar). But with regard to the grammar the changes are not quite right.
Original text:
+ The Moluccas were part of the Dutch East Indies, a colony of the Netherlands, since its conception in the 18th century. When Indonesian revolutionary leaders declared the independent Republic of Indonesia, the south Moluccas were automatically considered part of that country. Indonesia's war for independence lasted from 1945 until December 27, 1949
Changed text in bold:
+ The Moluccas were part of the Dutch East Indies, a colony of the Netherlands, since its conception in the 18th century. When Indonesian revolutionary leaders declared the independent Republic of Indonesia, the south Moluccas were the part of that country, declared by its freedom fighters. Indonesia's struggle for independence recognition lasted from 1945 until December 27, 1949
Suggest:
+ The Moluccas were part of the Dutch East Indies, a colony of the Netherlands, since its conception in the 18th century. When Indonesian revolutionary leaders declared the independent Republic of Indonesia, the South Moluccas were automatically considered part of that country. Indonesia's struggle for recognition of its independence lasted from 1945 until December 27, 1949
So the second sentence would stay the same as I think its says the same thing basically i.e. Sukarno considered the entire colony of the Dutch East Indies part of the RI. (Of course he even considered some parts of the former English colonies also part of RI e.g. English Borneo.)
The third sentence is enhanced in line with yr amendment. But without the grammar issue.
Krgds, JOHN NATHANN 19:20, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
