Talk:South African Scout Association

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Scouting Wiki Project South African Scout Association is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Contents

[edit] Subject matter experts

We need somebody with more knowledge in Cubs and in Rovers to fill out those specific sections. I've done what I can with the Scouts section, although I do feel that the advancement badges need a bit more info. Our Advancement system is a unique in the world of Scouting (As far as I can tell) Jediwannabe 07:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cub programme

I've removed the following text from the article onto the talk page:

Could a Pack Scouter (or somebody who knows more about Cubs in SA) please fill in what the Cub program aims for
From what I know, the Cub programme aims to instill and teach in the cubs all the basic skills needed for the time that a cub becomes a scout. Cubbing, sometimes taken lightly, is a vital part of the movement as it is here that the foundations are laid, so that more progressive and intuitive learning can take place in the scouting environment. (Potzen)

Zaian 21:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article improvement

With a longer lead, more refs, and some tweaks, this could easily be a [[WP:GA|Good Article] or even A-class article. If anyone bites, let me know and I'll give the rating a re-look. Rlevse 18:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Let's move the talk here. For FA, do the lead summary, more footnotes, see if some lists can be converted to prose, and get rid of the 1-2 sentences paragraphs by combining short ones or expanding them; then have me take another look.Rlevse 11:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I've done a little bit more to the lead, added a few footnotes. I'll look into the lists and get rid of those short paragraphs. One thing I'm thinking about is possibly moving the history and Scout program sections into seperate daughter articles, do you think it will improve the quality of the article? I'll let you know when I think it's ready to be re-evaluated. Jediwannabe 08:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] South African Scout Association Peer Review output

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question.

  • The lead of this article may be too long, or may contain too many paragraphs. Please follow guidelines at WP:LEAD; be aware that the lead should adequately summarize the article.
  • Consider adding more links to the article; per WP:MOS-L and WP:BTW, create links to relevant articles.
  • Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:MOSDATE, months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.
  • Per WP:WIAFA, Images should have concise captions.[1]
  • Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18 mm.[2]
  • Per WP:MOSNUM, please spell out source units of measurements in text; for example, "the Moon is 380,000 kilometres (240,000 mi) from Earth.[3]
  • Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) maybe too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per WP:SS.[4]
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • While additive terms like “also”, “in addition”, “additionally”, “moreover”, and “furthermore” may sometimes be useful, overusing them when they aren't necessary can instead detract from the brilliancy of the article. This article has 16 additive terms, a bit too much.
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
  • This article needs footnotes, preferably in the cite.php format recommended by WP:WIAFA. Simply, enclose inline citations, with WP:CITE or WP:CITE/ES information, with <ref>THE FOOTNOTE</ref>. At the bottom of the article, in a section named “References” or “Footnotes”, add <div class="references-small"><references/></div>.[5]
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that the it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 2a. [6]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Rlevse 21:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, i've basically rewritten large portions of the article, resorted it and reduced the size of the table of contents, and lots else. Any other suggestions? Jediwannabe 07:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New PR to review for GA nom

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

  • Consider adding more links to the article; per WP:MOS-L and WP:BTW, create links to relevant articles.
  • Per WP:WIAFA, Images should have concise captions.
  • Per WP:MOSNUM, please spell out source units of measurements in text; for example, the Moon is 380,000 kilometres (240,000 mi) from Earth.
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
  • As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space inbetween. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2]
  • Please provide citations for all of the {{fact}}s.
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Rlevse 20:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC) Rlevse 20:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

I don't have time to write all my comments down, but here are my main thoughts on this. This is a very interesting and well written article. I almost passed it despite my concerns. But here are my concerns:

  • 1) It needs more references/citations---particularly in the history section. There were a lot of places that I felt you needed citations. I'll try to go through the article later to note those places.
  • 2) This article cries out for pictures. The pictures you absolutely have to find are: a-The beeds referenced of Kind Dinizulu, b- the uniform designed by Powell for the police c- the uniform that is now used that is based on b. This article HAS to have pictures!
  • 3) I know this is written in British or possibly S.A. English, but is Learnt the correct spelling? I didn't want to correct it, because I suspect that it's just a linquistical variation, but be forwarned that it looks and sounds very akward for American English speakers.

I'll add more notes later on, but I wanted to hit the main points really quick. Again, this is by far the best article that I've read in my short time as a GA reviewer.Balloonman 23:34, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

As promised a more in depth review:

  • Add another paragraph in the introduction, namely on the Springbok award. This is the designation people work for and I think it needs a place of prominence in the article.
  • The article needs more wikilinks.
  • The rise of Afrikaner nationalism in the early 20th century and the popularity of scouting in the early 20th century seemed at odds... I was wondering if Afrikaner nationalism was really early 20th century or mid-20th century?
  • "Baden-Powell successfully defended the town for 217 days." He did it by himself? He led the forces that did it? He was part of the unit that did it?
  • "a soldier in Southern Africa" do we know where? Or was this before the modern nations were established?
  • Mention why the interest in HIV, if you don't know anything about Africa or HIV this might look weird.
  • Define Chief Scout and Patron.
  • Moved the section on chief scouter as you use the term before defining it.
  • Could we blockquote or indent the Promise and Law?
  • is first rate citizen used by the scouts? If so, then it should be in quotes and cited. If not, then it is a subjective term with no meaning. Either way, something needs to be done with it.
  • "who no longer has time to run a Patrol," Being a troop leader is less demanding than being a patrol leader?
  • "Springbok badge" mentioned for the first time in Scouting section without explaining what it is. If you add it to the intro section, then that's fine here. But if you don't add it, then it needs to be explained here. Springbok badge meant nothing to me at this point.
  • Advancement levels, do we need to bold or italicize them so they stand out?
  • Is there a link/page where the National Anthem can be found?
  • What do you mean by "Scout grounds?" Does this mean in the wild/widerness?
  • Explorer / Air Explorer / Sea Explorer---does one earn one or all three? Does one get to choose or is it based upon the troop?
  • Is explorer the first rank where defined leadership is required?
  • What is a Springbok? I'm guessing that it is some type of deer? That might be something to add to the article.
  • Are there any interest badges required for Springbok? Or are they only required for the Explorer level?
  • Rover Program---I would consider expanding this section as it is something that distinquishes SA scouting.
  • The international link section was the weakest section of the article... before becoming an FA I would elaborate on this section.
  • The influence in SA section I expected to see two things. First, discussion of scoutings role/involvement with Apartheid. Since they were integrated before Apartheid ended, did scouting have a larger role on this subject? Second, discussion on HIV/Aids. It is apparent that HIV/Aids is a subject of concern in SA, so what role do the Scouts play? HAve they been acknowledged for their efforts?
  • Pictures... really look for those pictures, they aren't required, but it would be really nice to have... particularly the pictures of the modern uniform and the police uniform... I'd love that.
  • Citations... again not absolutely required, but I added notations where *I* would like to see additional documentation... feel free to delete them if you feel like the facts are 'common knowledge' among active scouts outside of SA.

Again, this article is essentially ready for GA... There are a few places that need to be cleaned up/elaborated, but this really is a good interesting well written article. I know, this looks like a lot, but really, it isn't... these are easy fixes that you are free to disagree with.Balloonman 03:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I've implemented most of your suggestions as best I could. Found some nice pictures to add, just waiting for the webmasters to get back to me with permission to use them. Jediwannabe 08:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Going to move this to pass (forgot to sign)Balloonman 20:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting Peer review

I'd like to see this article reach FA status, but first I'd like to get some comments and suggestions from members of the Scouting WikiProject for tips on how the article can be improved to increase it's chances of achieving FA. Thanks in advance. -- YiS, Jediwannabe 07:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

  • Consider adding more links to the article; per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links) and Wikipedia:Build the web, create links to relevant articles.[?]
  • See if possible if there is a free use image that can go on the top right corner of this article.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:What is a featured article?, Images should have concise captions.[?]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space - &nbsp; between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 30 kilometres, use 30 kilometres, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 30&nbsp;kilometres.[?]
  • Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: honour (B) (American: honor), metre (B) (American: meter), defence (B) (American: defense), recognize (A) (British: recognise), ization (A) (British: isation), isation (B) (American: ization), program (A) (British: programme), programme (B) (American: program ).
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
    • Avoid misplaced formality: “in order to/for” (-> to/for), “thereupon”, “notwithstanding”, etc.
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

You may wish to browse through these suggestions for further ideas. Several of these have been pointed out above, too. They are simple straightforward (but laborious) recommendations, and should definitely be solved before FA status is seriously proposed. Success. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 20:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

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