Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog (series)

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	To-do list for Sonic the Hedgehog (series):	edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
Expansion Status To do: Overview should be more comprehensive. Chronology section should at least discuss what each game was about. Character section: flesh out each character, esp. Sonic. (example) Tidy up: Other gameplay styles

Contents 1 put in the sonic article 2 Sonic Pinball Party Chronology? 3 Dead link 4 Sonic's Name 5 Anime/Movie References 6 Chronological order of Sonic Games 7 wiki 8 Things needing attention 9 Merge proposal 10 Chaotix isn't main characters! 11 rings once more 12 Idea for the character section 12.1 First section 12.2 Second section 13 Criticism 14 Sonic Jump 15 Sonic CD placement. 16 The Ring Picture 17 An Idea 18 Power-up 19 Main Chracters??? 20 What came first 21 "Sonic the Hedgehog (series)" vs "Sonic the Hedgehog series" 22 Reorganising article 23 Sonic 2 in the Chronology 24 DDR: Sonic Mix 25 Sonic Rush IS canon! 26 "Other gameplay styles" section 27 Music 28 POV?

[edit] put in the sonic article

souldent we put this article in to the sonic article

That's the character's article, this is for the games. Big difference. --Shadow Hog 15:10, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic Pinball Party Chronology?

Thanks for the chronology, people! That really came in handy. But where does Sonic Pinball Party fit in?

It wouldn't fit in anywhere, there is no storyline that would continue/advance the series, it is just a game, released by SEGA for "the fun of it." Tails0600 03:42, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia page for Sonic Pinball Party states that: "Sonic Pinball Party takes place before Sonic Heroes, as Metal Sonic still works for Dr. Eggman." Can anyone confirm or refute this? BTW, how do I sign my comments like I am supposed to? 205.250.222.77 08:32 25 Febuary 2007 (UTC)

Well, first of all, I don't think Metal Sonic does work for Eggman, I mean, in Sonic Heroes, he defied his master, and took plans into his own hands (or claws). But, always something to look into.
And to sign your name, you'll type four tildes (They look like this: ~), or there is a squiggly button () above. Don't worry, when you start talking more, you'll remember. In the meantime, I'll add your signiture for you. Tails0600 03:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dead link

I've removed the Sonic Information Treasury Wiki because it seems to be dead.

the spanish version is emerging, shouldn't we link them togehetr?

[edit] Sonic's Name

Shouldn't it be Sonic the Hedgehog? (note the capital T) I read that "The" was his middle name

No, Sonics full name offically has never been discosed by SEGA itself. The only time Sonic's been given an actual name is in the Archie comics and that name in it self is not considered cannon. Jennytablina 10:49, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anime/Movie References

Should there be a page about all the Anime and Movie references in Sonic games. Sonic's ability to turn into a faster, yellow "Super Sonic" mirrors the Super Saiyan ideas from Dragonball Z. The Death Egg seems to be directly ripped from Star Wars. Knuckles' Angel Island's ability to float also seems to be borrowed from Laputa: Castle in the Sky.87th 18:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

We know the Super Sonic idea is in fact a homage to Dragonball Z but the other References cant really be confirmed. Jennytablina 23:20, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Really? The Death Egg/Star seems extremely obvious. 87th 18:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chronological order of Sonic Games

Should the chronological order of the Sonic Games be displayed somewhere in the article? I read somewhere that the games' stories are not in order of release. Perhaps someone could clear it up. Rim-Fire 21:30, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

There isnt much story to speak of, besides this the newer games are in order, the only place the timeline gets confusing is around the Mega Drive, Game Gear and Master System releases. Though no offical time line has even been given by SEGA Jennytablina 09:50, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

How can Sonic Rush be canon? If it was, it would contradict the events of both Sonic the Hedgehog on Playstation 3 and X-Box 360(in Sonic the Hedgehog, Blaze is from the future, not from an alternate world) and Sonic Rivals(in Sonic Rivals, Eggman Nega is also from the future, not from an alternate world).Michael Mad 22:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Not really. Since time was restarted AND altered in SONIC the Hedgehog, Blaze never knew Sonic. Eggman Nega travels to the past to conquer it, which makes sense since it is basically what he does in Sonic Rivals. Blaze goes with him, and sees a world so radically different, she thinks it's a new dimension. Possibly, the Sol Emeralds are the Chaos Emeralds with a new name, but this emerald thing is too much of fanon. The rest... not so much, as it makes perfect sense.195.23.133.154 15:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I think we should either remove the chronology section altogether or make it to somewhat like the Legend of Zelda series article, we just can't confirm anything the order, and since we have no confirmation of what is canon; we cannot leave out games.The Conscience 10:55, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

True, the chronology section is mostly made up of rumors, opinions and ideas. As for now though, I suppose that Sonic Rush be removed, as it would probably be non-canon.Michael Mad 11:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Sonic and the Secret Rings and Sonic Riders isn't on the list. Ryu Ematsu 16:05, 07 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] wiki

I think there should be a sonic wiki. It would be so cool

User StrongCool from hrwiki.org

There is. http://info.sonicretro.org/ ~ Keiji (iNVERTED) (Talk | Contribs) 11:20, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Things needing attention

This article can eventually be a good article or feature article after we have expanded it. However, the following needs to be taken into account:

• As an overview of the series, this page should be far more comprehensive. For example, The Legend of Zelda series (WP:GA) and Link (Legend of Zelda) (WP:FA) have much larger summary sections for subarticles. The character section needs an overhaul.
• We also need more references, but we can't do that without more content.
• It has to be an example of good prose; at the moment it is only average.
• The article should let people know why the series is notable and compelling.

List by DavidHOzAu 08:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Meh, I'm going to expand this article myself. I think however I'll have to reshuffle a few sections once I'm done: for instance, I suspect that the list of characters will at least be after the "Common Features" section. Got to keep a smooth flow of the article. --DavidHOzAu 11:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, added the table you can see to your leftabove. Feel free to update you guys. --DavidHOzAu 06:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I previously posted a suggested layout here. You can find it in the page history. I removed it because we should wait until the article is more comprehensive before we decide where everything should go. --DavidHOzAu 07:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've rearranged the article; it is much more logical now, especially in regards to WP:WAF. --DavidHOzAu 11:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Note: The "to do" box has been moved to the top of the talk page, as is the case with all other Wikipedia articles. --DavidHOzAu 07:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal

Why do we need a page about rings as used in the Sonic games? There's not much you can say. Shouldn't that be handled on this page? Ace of Sevens 20:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Oppose No, that would give us too much information to put on this page, notably the section In other media does not belong on this page. I have reverted the merge. Please wait longer and met consensus first. --DavidHOzAu 08:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I tried to revert this, but Randall Brackett quoted WP:FICT and WP:BOLD in its merge, so my hand is forced. However, as stated above, In other media does not belong on this page at all, it belongs on the relevant pages about the spin offs. It will therefore be removed from the article. --DavidHOzAu 08:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... I think I'll have to revise that statement: Randall Brackett knows what he's talking about. The article definitely is much better for it. Also, check out his edit to Amy's article; he fixed that nagging problem about her article that I couldn't pin down. --DavidHOzAu 01:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chaotix isn't main characters!

Whoever has put the Chaotix as the main characters, they're not! So I'm moving it back to where it belongs; in the other characters section! And whats worse, when I put them back there somebody changed them to be the main characters and I don't know who it was! And as If I wasn't angry enough, somebody rearranged the other character section in no particular order and it took me some time to fix this! Now the reason Chaotix aren't the main characters is that they haven't had enough information and appearence to be main characters! If you were the one who put Chaotix as the main characters or were the on that screwed up the other character section, I'd like your feedback, please! And once again somebody has scrambled my effort again! That's it!!!!!! It's edit war! I'M NOT GONNA TOLERATE THIS ANYMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I have evidence it could have been Starionwolf! In fact, before he/she edited that it was normal so it is YOU, Starionwolf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- Said 13 20:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Jeez, calm down. Chaotix are minor characters, true, but also make many appearances throughout the Sonic series. At least they play a larger role than Big the Cat. Plus, they have key roles in two Sonic games, so they should remain in the Main Characters section. Just get over it. It's just a website. Shadoman 22:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rings once more

purpose of rings is obvious in games. what about their reason of existance in anime (especially sonic x)? it gives a high-speed power to sonic (funny that only sonic is using them) - somebody, who knows sth about details? how could they be found in world of chris, etc.?

83.24.231.247 21:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed that because it wasn't relevant to the article about the video games. Try putting it in the appropriate articles, where each paragraph can likely be further expanded in the new context. --DavidHOzAu 05:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Idea for the character section

As "Main characters" and "other characters" is ambiguous, especially from an out-of-universe perspective it makes more sense to try something different. Here's some suggestions for renaming the current "character" sections to something more appropriate:

[edit] First section

Playable characters This would give an overview of all characters who are playable in the 16-bit and 3D games. This is the first title that came to my mind was, namely, if a character is a player character or non-player character. The only thing about this is that Metal Sonic wouldn't qualify.

Central characters This would give an overview of all central characters in the 16-bit and 3D games. Note that playable characters are by definition central characters. Dr. Eggman and Metal Sonic would therefore be in this list.

[edit] Second section

Non playable characters

Minor or non-playable characters

Other characters

All of these sections would give an overview of all characters who are non playable characters or who were only playable in spinoffs. By defintion, if a character is not in the first character section, they are in the second. Of the three possible headers, I'm not really sure which one I prefer.

Comments? --DavidHOzAu 02:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

So it was YOU who scambled the other character section!Said 13 (UTC)

Nope; check the page history, it wasn't me. However, I have been improving other sections of the article. I haven't touched the content of the character section yet. --DavidHOzAu 11:30, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Said 13, Stop it! Are you one of those fans who complain about other characters being playable in the series. If so, then you need to get over it! The Chaotix maybe minor, but they still have a big role so don't you dare blame people for this. Leave them alone! - B. Anonymous

[edit] Criticism

I added a Criticism section

When I read it, I saw the most PAINFUL spelling and grammar I have seen in my life. People know how Shadow returned, one of Eggman's robots rescued him (it's explained in Shadow the Hedgehog). Sonic Team tries to fill in plotholes, so I think they were oversights. As for the games getting easy, by now, people who used to be total n00bs are now experts. It may be easy for experts, but quite difficult for newcomers. I, for one, am thankful it was removed. Shadoman 22:53, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Not to metion, it was a an opinion, not a statment supported by facts. UnDeRsCoRe 23:10, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic Jump

I keep seeing on Wikipedia in a list of upcoming Sonic games the game Sonic Jump. Originally, it had its own article, but now just links to the List of Sonic Games article, when it is never referenced there. Plus, I've never even heard anything about it until reading it here. Should it be removed? And, considering I'm not terribly experienced with editing here, how can I remove it? I.M.Fearless 22:46, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

It was a cellphone game. And, as agreed on it's disscusion page, it was un notable and no other sonic cell game has it's own article, and shouldn't. So, it was redirected here. (I was actually the one who redirected it). UnDeRsCoRe 22:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Uh, okay, I was just wondering why it was still important enough to have in that listing that they have at the bottom of each game page:

v • d • e Sonic the Hedgehog main series [list]

Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) · Sonic the Hedgehog 2 · Sonic the Hedgehog CD · Sonic the Hedgehog 3 · Sonic & Knuckles · Sonic Adventure · Sonic Adventure 2 · Sonic Heroes · Shadow the Hedgehog · Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) · Sonic and the Secret Rings

See? It's still there, and it appears to also be the only cellphone game on the list. (Sorry I posted the entire thing; it was the only thing I could think of.)

I see, I'll remove it from the list. UnDeRsCoRe 21:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic CD placement.

Hello all!

I've recently added the story of Sonic CD to the "plot" section, as it is the game which introduces Amy Rose, and is referenced in a few of the new games (so I decided that it is important enough to be placed). However, I understand that this game, which, while Canon, does not have an exact place in the timeline at this moment in time, as there has been no official confirmation by Sega OR Sonic Team. It is because of this that I have added it to the story BEFORE Sonic the Hedgehog 2's events take place. Listed Below are a few reasons as to why.

• Sonic CD was originally supposed to be released before Sonic 2, according to a few sources I have looked at (Secrets of Sonic Team - Emulation Zone, Magazines, various websites)

• Sonic sports his Sonic the Hedgehog look, and among his moves are what appears to be an early or alternative Spindash.

• An secret game image shows a picture of Tails with the Phrase "See you next game", possibly reffering to Tails in Sonic 2. The Car and Sunglasses are most likely an artists choice.

• Sonic 3 takes place during the Sonic 2 ark, and Eggman was building/fixing the Death Egg again so couldn't have been in Sonic CD thus making Sonic CD inbetween 2 and 3 illogical.

• Sonic CD could have come after 1, 2, 3 and K , but then most of the evidence stated above is then insignificant.

And I realize that originally magazines were calling it "Sonic 2 CD" and calling it a remake, but I don't ever remember this being officially being stated that it would be a remake. As this was done by a different team, it doesn't mean it should be placed after the others on the Megadrive, I suggest placing it before Sonic 2, as many elements suggest it should be. Tquinnathome1 16:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Um, actually, Sonic CD was handled by a separate development team, headed by Sonic creator Naoto Ohshima. Initially, as revealed in interviews and magazine clippings, Sonic CD, and Sonic 2 for the Mega Drive/Genesis, Master System and Game Gear were all supposed to be the same game. However, during development, Sonic CD evolved into a vastly different type of game. Eventually, the gameplay of Sonic 2 would be favoured for the future games, but this explains why the theme and handling of Sonic CD are different, as well as the use of Sonic 1's sprites for Sonic. The time posts also had pseudo-3D sprites similar to the Knuckles' Chaotix title screen.

It wasn't because it was to be released before sonic 2. It was supposed to be the same game altogether.

(If I may responde that) Sonic CD WAS (technically) developed by Sonic Team. Many of the people who worked on this title later became a part of Sonic Team. It even (supposedly) says on the back of the Japanese Packaging.Dragon DASH 03:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Sonic CD most likely takes place after Sonic & Knuckles. But that's irrevelanet, because I'm going to remove the Classic Plot section. The plot details of individual games are best left to those games own articles. It's not like the Sonic series has an overall plot arc other than "beat Eggman."—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.151.166.205 (talk)

Remove the summaries? I wouldn't recommend doing that. There is a progressive plot in the games because games make explicit references to previous games. (If you ignore me and remove "Classic Plot" anyway, then at least consider moving the material to each game article — writing concise summaries of S1, S2, S3, and S&K was not an easy task for me.) Besides, when I wrote that section I called it "Plot" because it wasn't meant to be just about the classic series; I have yet to get around to expanding the last paragraph of that section to include summaries about say SA, SA2 and SH. If you want to improve the article, feel free to add the needed information to make the article a more complete overview, but please don't brazenly delete content I slaved over for three days. :) (For the record, "Other gameplay styles" and "Super Sonic" need far more attention in the article than the plot section.) --DavidHOzAu 04:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Ring Picture

That picture of a ring looks nothing like a ring I've seen in a Sonic game, and doesn't really look too good in the article, in my opinion. Perhaps a picture something like this image could be used? It shows a more "Sonicy" style ring. --Someone Else's Problem 21:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe even an in-game screenshot, perhaps? --Tails0600 19:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Not unless it is free. commons:Image:SonicRing.jpg is subject to a Creative Commons License, specifically CC-BY-SA-2.5. We can't use fair-use images when there is a free alternative. Fair-use implies that there are no free images available, and in this case we do have a free image. Besides, that animation is too small... we need a 3D one if possible. To improve it we'd need to make our own.

I have made an animation of a ring in POVRay once; I'll work on it today and upload it to commons either tonight or in a day or so. Yes, I'll make sure it has anti-aliasing enabled. :) --DavidHOzAu 03:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I did it! I think I'll go update the article... --DavidHOzAu 11:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] An Idea

Does anyone think that we should make a timeline of Sonic events? Just curious. DeathGodDragon EDGE 00:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Like this? Yeah, that's what I've been trying to do in the plot section. --DavidHOzAu 04:10, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

A good idea. I'm guessing only the "main" games of the series would be included. The Sonic series has way more spin-offs and such than Zelda. 81.172.223.197 11:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Although my suggestion of a timeline seems like a good idea, the problem with it is two things: 1. Sonic CD's place in the timeline is still unspecified and could go in 1 of 2 places (before 2 or after S3&K) and 2. Some of the spinoffs are canon as they have references from canon games in them or are referenced by canon games. However...to include these games (Battle, Riders, Rush, Rivals, the Advance series) would prove difficult due to retcons and the time of the games being unspecified. ChromeWulf ZX 22:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, there is one now, apparently. It would do good with some clean-up though. Gurko 23:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Power-up

I tried to create a Sonic-style powerup which may be used in this article. Here is the result. It's not great, but it's svg, so somebody can improve it. BeŻet pl 14:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Main Chracters???

Some of the characters in the main character section arn't really very main. Like the babylon Rouges. Some of them should be in a minor character section.

Neofcon: Thats the case for the ones people still consider main, because they have lesser roles in the new games, like 06.

So i that case why isnt mighty and Ray in that section. So if there not main anymore shouldnt they be taken off. Even Cream and Big arnt really main character anymore.

I just deleted the Babylon Rogues and Tikal from the list. They are certainly NOT major characters in the series as a whole. (90.224.69.82 18:12, 1 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] What came first

im pretty sure Sonic The Hedgehog came after Sonic Rush. One because Blazes says the iblis trigger, a blue hedgehog can it be true? whitch suggest she does remeber Sonic. This is also suggested when Blaze says Blue Hedgehog????? .

That's what I think also, but there would be some plot holes to work out... ChromeWulf ZX 22:37, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Im not sure what you mean, but if its that Blaze comes from a different dimension in Sonic rush, it could be that Sonic and Blaze just THOUGHT they were from different dimensions.

[edit] "Sonic the Hedgehog (series)" vs "Sonic the Hedgehog series"

I think this page should be moved back. It is about the Sonic the Hedgehog series of games, not about some particular thing that happens to be called "Sonic the Hedgehog" and is a series. ~ Keiji (iNVERTED) (Talk | Contribs) 11:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that reasoning regarding the difference between the two - the same thing happened to The Matrix series recently, which was also a bit annoying. Presumably there's some manual of style guideline somewhere. --Nick R^Talk 13:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganising article

In the summary of this edit, I noted that related sections should be grouped together: the article should begin with descriptions of the nature of the games themselves ("Overview", "History", "Common features" and "Music"), then continue into sections about in-universe information ("Plot", "Characters, "Canon", "Chronology"). I think that this grouping of the article into two broad sections (along with that final bit summarising spin-off comics, books and cartoons) is the most logical way to organise it, because it presents a clear distinction between those two ways of looking at the games (as videogames, and as stories).

The section on the gameplay is reasonably good. However, the parts about the in-universe information need a lot of work: they are overly detailed regarding fan debates on what's "canon", and are very repetitive (compare the game summaries under "Chronology" and those under "Plot"). Condensing all this will require some effort. So, for the time being, I've grouped all the in-universe information into a large section entitled "Continuity" (for want of a better term; "Setting" or "Fictional universe" aren't really appropriate because plots and characters are described more than environments). It's very basic at the moment (hence the template messages), but hopefully it'll give a clearer direction for improving the article. --Nick R^Talk 03:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it is interesting that the layout reorganization is more-or-less what it used to be:

Old layout		New layout
		+	*Continuity
-	*Plot	+	**Plot
-	*Characters	+	**Characters
		+	**Canon
-	*Regional variations	+	***Variations
		+	***Chronology
	*Spin-offs		*Spin-offs

I'll have a go at performing the needed reorganizing. Speaking of which, what do you think about "Spin-offs"? Is it in-universe or out-of-universe information? —DavidHOzAu 07:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Done. The entire plot section had to go, though I'm not sure if the article is better off for it. —DavidHOzAu 07:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic 2 in the Chronology

It took a little bit of work to find this one, but in the chronolgy, it states that the Sonic 2 "instruction booklet..." and later talks about Sonic 2 coming directly after the events of Sonic 1. I was thinking, shouldn't we put part of the story, and reference page 4, where it is actually referenced indirectly with "This time..."? Tails0600 03:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Possibly! However, the reason why CD has to come before Sonic 2 is because of the new sprites, which 3 & K kept — Sonic actually looks older in Sonic 2 than in CD and 1. So 'directly after' might not be as direct as one might think. Besides, there's so many discrepancies between the instruction booklets and the games that it might not be worth mentioning. So while I'm leaning towards only citing the instruction booklets only when they aren't in conflict with the games, I'm still open to discussion about this. --DavidHOzAu 07:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Sonic 3 didn't really keep Sonic 2's sprites when it comes to Sonic, they're very different from one another. Tails is the same though. Sonic 2 sprites and Sonic 1 sprites of Sonic aren't all that different, 2 just has a clearer blue pallette. Gurko 19:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

But the sprites should have nothing to do with story, and where a game is put, Somebody should take the stories from each booklet, and see how they match up. Yes, Sonic CD is based after Sonic 1, and I understand that, but we need more evidence that the sprites to show that. That's why I looked in the booklet, because of these changes in storyline. So my next question is: How are we going to prove that Sonic CD comes AFTER the story of Sonic 1?
And, while I'm debating things, in the chronology, It states that Sonic Adventure 2 is the sequel to Sonic Adventure 1. That's true. BUT, it is not a sequel in terms of the story, actually, it is a brad new storyline, about Gerald, Maria, and the ARK.
AND, It also states that Shadow the Hedgehog follows Sonic Heroes' storyline. However, if I remember correctly, Shadow the Hedghog was produced in order to answer questins about Snic Adventure 2, and not necessarily a sequel, per se. Tails0600 03:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

First, I don't even know why I'm replying to this. The absence of Tails should be enough to convince you that Sonic CD comes before Sonic 2, but noooo.... I have to make sure you're convinced while the article is in an inaccurate state.

• Re: Sonic 1

Sonic 1 is the first game because I say so! As well as every other fan who says so. As well as Sega who has said so. Naka left Sonic Team for Sega Technical Institute, and thus Sonic 2's development split in two.[1] Secrets of Sonic Team has some relevant magazine scans you might want to read up on.

• Re: Sonic CD + Sonic 2

CD used Sonic 1's sprites with little modification, if there were any. Sonic has longer legs in Sonic 2 and thus looks older, although his face isn't that different. In Sonic 3 they got around to updating his face so that he stands erect/poised, and they added more frames to his animations. Anyway, there are of course other differences, which need to be taken into account. The double jumping code introduced in Sonic 2 was extended in S3&K to include shield actions, Tails, and (if memory serves) was heavily exploited by level design and additional boxes. In Sonic CD double-jumping code is conspicuously absent. If Sonic 1 were as closely connected to 3 as 2 is, S&K would've been able to work on it. Everything is pointing towards Sonic CD coming first, I'm afraid.

• Re: Sonic Adventure 1 + 2

Yes, SA2 has a different story from SA... but every Sonic game out there is different from each other, or else the series would get old really fast!

• Re: Heroes + Shadow the Hedgehog

SA2 ends with Shadow falling to Earth, presumably dead; Team Dark's opening cut-scene in Heroes shows that Shadow survived the fall but lost his memory in the process. ShTH is all about Shadow recovering his memories. Thus, we have SA2 → Heroes → ShTH.

—DavidHOzAu 04:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright, well, you got me in some points, and I've always agreed Sonic CD came before Sonic 2, I didn't, and won't change that, my point is, is that we need some sort of evidence that it is based before Sonic 2, Yes, I do agree about the sprites, and Yes, I do agree with Tails not being there, but, don't you think we should have more evidence? I mean, when people come to Wikipedia, they want facts, as far as I'm concerned, this is just an opinion, I hate to be rude, or to start an argument, but I just think we need more, to back up the point. One major thing is that Sonic CD was MADE after Sonic 2, and possibly Sonic 3. The story is what I'm trying to get at, though.
Yes, I realize Sonic 1 came first, and the two comments I made about SA2 and StH were for disscussion purposes, just ideas. Tails0600 20:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

How about:

The April 1993 issue of Sega Force reported that Sonic CD was originally slated for release in March of that year as a remake of Sonic 2 without Tails and with full motion video sequences, but was put back due to Sonic 2's success. The June 1993 issue of Megazone reported that the game had redesigned levels from Sonic 2 and featured a time attack option. The time attack feature never made it to stores.

...or something. Last sentence doesn't sound right. I suppose it could be placed in a <ref /> or worked into the article. —DavidHOzAu 07:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

update to the article. —DavidHOzAu 08:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I know the discussion has moved past it already, and that it never mattered much anyway, but here's a comparisment of sprites. Just for kicks, I guess. Gurko 09:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

THERE WE GO! That's what I was getting at! We need to put that into the article, proving the fact that Sonic CD comes before Sonic 2. You're brilliant, DavidHOzAu!! And, thanks for the comparison sheet, Gurko, something neat to look at!
And, while I'm thinking of it, the top of the page says that we need to tidy-up the "Other gameplay types" area. I was thinking, maybe the different styles of gameplay should be put under the Spin-offs section, and have a mini-chronology JUST for that section, maybe that will give visitors a little more of an insight about the games. I want to see what the community thinks about this. Tails0600 20:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

By 'tidy-up "Other gameplay types"', I meant amalgamate those six paragraphs into three without losing information. I've been meaning to do it for a while, I just haven't had the time or inspiration.
However, if you have an idea for the article, or have identified an area where the article might be lacking, I'm all ears. —DavidHOzAu 02:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I've done some thinking about what you suggested. "Spin-offs" is intended to be about things which are spin-offs to the entire series: i.e. things that have Sonic in them that aren't even video games. "Other gameplay styles" on the other hand is about games where Sonic Team was being adventurous with the gameplay. I'm not that sure that the two go together. Trying to work out some sort of chronology for the spin off games would be interesting however. (has anyone tried it before?) —davidh.oz.au 07:26, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with that, it shouldn't go into the "Spin-Offs Section." For the chronology, just make it like the main section, but it would be ONLY spin off games. You get what I'm saying, just make it like the Main Chronology. Tails0600 20:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose that could fit into a subsection of chronology. And I'll take this moment to give a gentle warning: I wouldn't know how they fit though because I haven't played most of them; I could however do some copy-editing to whatever gets added. —davidh.oz.au 05:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've played MOST of them, and we can even use info from some of the articles. If we need, I can find more information, andput in my 2 cents worth. Just ASK! Tails0600 23:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Be bold! —davidh.oz.au 07:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll edit the chronicles section to include a subsection, which will detail the Other gameplay styles, and then delete that section. Take a look at it, and see what you think. Tails0600 01:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and, with the character section, maybe we should get rid of all the characters except Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Shadow, and Eggman. These are the MAIN characters. Most of the others appear in only one or two games, or have just been created. What do you think? Tails0600 03:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Well... that is a very good idea and I think the article would benefit from it, provided the remaining characters are eventually discussed in more detail. (hopefully it would focus our edits in the right direction.) However, that section has been a source of contention in the past,^[1][2][3] and the current version is pretty much of a compromise. (Note: I am sure there have been other edit wars in the article's page history which I have forgotten.) So if you are feeling braver than I and you really want to touch it, go right ahead. —davidh.oz.au 13:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright, well, how about splitting it into 2 subsections then, one for main characters, and one for minor characters, which is easier than talking about the side characters later on? Tails0600 19:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DDR: Sonic Mix

There's already been a Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix, so not doing it for Sonic is kind of unfair. However, I think Sonic would probably die of embarassment if he had to go searching for "Music Keys"... So, instead, Dr. Eggman could stage a dancing tournament, and pretty much all of the Sonic characters would be participating. Your character would have to defeat the others in dance-offs until he or she could finally confront Dr. Eggman and, in one last dance-off, defeat the mad scientist... but then someone else (like Black Doom, Mephiles, Chaos, Metal Sonic, or some other villain) could crash the party... Sounds like a good idea, huh? Luigifan 12:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good, but unfortunately, Sega won't take your idea. It would be fun to see, however! And please not that you should sign your comments with four tildes. Tails0600 22:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Or press that handy squiggly button (). I'd also like to add that leaving some sort of siggy is a good habit to get into when leaving messages on talk pages, lest someone tag you with the dreaded {{subst:unsigned}}. —davidh.oz.au 08:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Definately a good point, didn't even see that there! Guess you DO learn something new everyday! Tails0600 03:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic Rush IS canon!

Duh! In Sonic the Hedgehog, Blaze knew Sonic! How could this be in SR isn't canon!!!!!?

First of, please sign your post with four tildes, I'll know who I'm embarrassing then. Now, Sonic Rush may not be considered canon because it focuses on a completely different story, which is the two worlds colliding. Now, in Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, it isn't stated by Blaze that the two worlds were merging, she just remembers Sonic. In terms of being canon, more than likely not. But, give me some proof, give me a line from the game, or even part of a cut scene in which Blaze talks about Sonic Rush's story. (I've never played STH06, so I wouldn't know.) Then we'll talk about it being canon.

By the way, what does the community think? Tails0600 02:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I haven't played STH06 either, but from the sound of things, Rush got retconned. Might be worth a note.

Alright, sounds good to me. Tails0600 19:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Here's a reason that it IS canon: Let's say that Sonic Rush isn't canon. In STH06, when Mephiles informs Silver and Blaze that a blue hedgehog named Sonic is the Iblis Trigger, Blaze mutters 'blue hedgehog...... as if she is trying to recall something. Later, when Blaze is lost in the past, she says, Iblis Trigger.... blue hedgehog? Can it be?- If she never met Sonic in SR, she wouldn't have said any of that, would she have? :P Also, Sonic appears to know Blaze too, as she is there with Sonic and Silver witnessing the Egg Carrier's explosion, and Sonic never asks her, "who are you? I'm Sonic!" So, now we can talk about it being canon, shall we? ^_^

Alright, that's proof enough to me. We'll put it back into the main Chronology, but, we'll add a note to it saying why it is Canon, sound good? Tails0600 01:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Thnx!

[edit] "Other gameplay styles" section

I noticed that the "other gameplay styles" section has been converted into a bulleted list with brief summaries of the plots. I agree with the move to a separate section further down the page, but not with the conversion to a list. There's nothing that wrong with it, but I think the information better as prose, because it's consistent with the overview of the the main 2D/3D platform games.

If it's kept as a list, something needs to be done about the summaries: judging by the name of the section and the focus of the article, they should really describe the games' gameplay rather than their plots! I've done that for Spinball, adapting the description from the old one in that previous version, but not for any of the others.

The other alternative is to keep it as a list, but change it to a list of genres, rather than game titles ("Racing games" for Sonic Drift/Sonic R/Sonic Riders; "Pinball games" for Spinball and Pinball Party). If it's not changed to prose, I'd much prefer a list of genres than one of games.

What do you think? --Nick R^Talk 02:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Very, very good points, and now, looking back on it, the small 1 or 2 paragraphs we had were better than the list, but I also like the list as well. Tell you what. Why don't we recreate the small paragraphs, but, have JUST release dates and names of the games, like this:

           Blah Blah Blah Blah...
           *Sonic R (1996) (Saturn)
           *Sonic 3d blast ---

And so on, see what I mean? Tails0600 20:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music

So, are Sega's in-house musicians called Wavemaster or Wave Master. It's in the article both ways.Sparticuz 20:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV?

Just reading the article, and was wondering if the below section i have Ctrl+V'ed is POV?

"In November 14, 2006, Sonic the Hedgehog, the first Sonic game for the seventh console generation, was released for the Xbox 360 with a PlayStation 3 version in January. Even though Blaze the Cat was brought back and introduced newcomer Silver the Hedgehog it too got mixed views with an average of 46% and it sold only 38,000 copies in its first two weeks. Its main controversies are long loading times, uninteresting mission systems and a few glitches.

In February 2007, Sonic debuted on the Nintendo Wii in a separate entry called Sonic and the Secret Rings. The game was praised for supposedly "returning the series to its roots", however it has been criticised for high difficulty, and a somewhat unappealing story (a loose retelling of the Arabian Nights)."

They are not referenced from any reviews, and mostly I am meaning about the "high diffculty and unappealing story". Sure, it may be tricky, and the stroy aint usual Sonic style, but this seems to be somes opinion? It would be better to reference a site that says this, and then say "that some sources have the opinion of...". Sheeldz 17:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this is mostly opinion, although maybe looking at websites such as GameSpot may help. Tails0600 23:35, 5 April 2007 (UTC)