Talk:Sodium vapor lamp

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It was moved to "Sodium vapour lamp" earlier today for no reason. Dbenbenn 16:24, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• moved back. Gentgeen

Contents 1 LPS/SOX 2 Name change 3 Small data additions 4 Text temporarily removed 5 SON-E, SON-T 6 Image persistently removed 7 Discontinuuous spectrum 8 removal of image

[edit] LPS/SOX

I included the LPS abbreviation as well as there was no mention of it. Google: "LPS sodium lamp" gives 4750 hits, "SOX sodium lamp" gives 812. (apart from this, i dont know which one is more popular or if one term is being phased out) || deanos 11:24, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Name change

Dbenbenn:

Generaly speaking, I think the Wiki style is to leave differences in British/American spelling alone and it is definitely recommended style that the spelling at least be consistent throughout the article. I note that even though you moved the page to "Sodium Vapour Lamp", you didn't fix the first mention of "vapor" in the article. By the way, did you fix all the hyperlinks that link to this article?

I'd like to suggest that we undo the move and put the article back where it was, at "Sodium Vapor Lamp".

Atlant 13:55, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Um, what? I didn't move the article. I agree that it shouldn't have been moved. Dbenbenn 15:58, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

According to [deleted page], it was moved by MPF. Dbenbenn 16:00, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Alright, I tried to move Sodium vapor lamp out of the way so as to move Sodium vapour lamp back. That was the wrong thing to do. Oops. Dbenbenn 16:40, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I apologize for attributing the move to you (but I'm glad you agree the move was wrong :) )

Atlant 17:17, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I moved it back. Gentgeen 17:46, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Small data additions

If the sky is clear, the light is simply irradiated around, causing large enough cities to actually glow with an orange light!

If you've approached a large enough city, usually with 1 million people inside or more, in a clear night, chances are that, when you're about 50 km away, you could see a dim, dome-shaped orange glow where the city is; this is particularly noticeable with cities that grow out instead of growing up like Guadalajara. Da_Nuke 05:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Text temporarily removed

I removed this sentence

"In Germany HPS lamps are not allowed for use on roads. New Australian roadway lighting criteria requires HPS lamp lumens be reduced by .75 for roadway lighting designs."

only because it needs to be fixed. Why are HPS lamps not allowed in Germany? In Australia, HPS lamp lumens must be reduced to 75% of what? and why? Is it 75% or 0.75 lumens? PAR 14:12, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SON-E, SON-T

It is common to come across acronyms like SON-E and SON-T. I have also seen NES-E, NAV-E, NAV-T. I am new to this fascinating business of luminaires, and only know that E=elliptical and T=tubular (basically the shape of the luminaires, per se). Does anybody has a clue what SON stands for?

I suspect SOdium or Sodium Oxide something...

I would think it would be "Sodium Nitride", but that is a newly discovered compound from what I see. "Sodium Oxide Nitride" I could not find anything on. "Sodium Nickel" seems to be more involved with batteries, but since the nickel is used to make electrodes, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_battery) then maybe that is what it has to do with. Eric B 15:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image persistently removed

[edit] Discontinuuous spectrum

The article currently states that "These lamps produce continuous spectrum light (not monochromatic)." All gas discharge lamps (fluorescent and HID) are polychromatic, but all also produce discontinouous (line) spectra (unlike incandescent lamps, including halogen, which produce continouous spectra). This is clearly illustrated by a standard spectral power distribution graph. Chondrite 23:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Line spectra are not discontinuous. Even the narrowest line has a non-zero width. They just tend to be narrow, but the HPS lamp sodium D-line is very broad, hundreds of angstroms, and is not even close to discontinuous. PAR 02:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The individual lines within the spectral output are continuous, but HPS has multiple discrete spectral lines, which are discontinuous. "The sodium D-line is the main source of light from the HPS lamp, and it is extremely pressure broadened by the high sodium pressures in the lamp, hence colors of objects under them can be distinguished. " The spectral output of low-pressure sodium is also dominated by the sodium D line, but has very low CRI. The enhancement of CRI in HPS is only partially due to the pressure-broadening of the sodium D-line, but is much more related to the addition of non-sodium elements to the arc tube. Chondrite 06:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• Every physical spectral line is continuous. There is no such thing as a discontinuous line. A discontinuous line would have zero width. Every physical spectral line has a finite width.
• The only non-sodium elements in an HPS lamp are mercury and xenon. Neither of these two elements contribute anywhere near the amount of CRI that the broadening of the sodium D line does.

PAR 12:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you're being perfectly ridiculous. You know as well as anyone that he's talking about the spectrum as a whole as being discontinuous. That is a completele valid statement. A continuous spectrum light source is typically an incandescent source. Just because a Na lamp has broadened emission lines which themselves are continuous (and they aren't even! b/c of self absorption) doesn't meant the entire spectrum can rightly be called "continuous".--Deglr6328 07:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know what he's talking about, but I have always heard it referred to as a "line spectrum" as opposed to a "continuum spectrum", not a "continuous" versus "discontinuous". I object to it on the basis of experience and mathematics. Perhaps this nomenclature is used in a field in which I have no experience, but if its just an invention, then it shouldn't be used. PAR 16:39, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] removal of image

Dicklyon just removed the image I added to this page months ago, claiming it was a "tinted sillhouette". Actually, the photo is a color photo taken under sodium vapor illumination and the fact that it shows up as a tinted sillhouette illustrates how NA vapor lamps generate essentially monochromatic views. I think the image should be restored. What do other people think? Debivort 02:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I took it out because there's nothing in the picture that would be expected show a color difference in broad-spectrum light, and hence it fails to make the claimed point. Dicklyon 04:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The background would have been multicolored (brick and cement and grass) but I suppose, since you'd have to take my word for that, the image is less than ideal. Debivort 06:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. What I belive is irrelevant; if there's nothing visible in the background, the image fails to make its point. And the branches in the foreground are a complete distraction from the point, since they're unlighted. Dicklyon 07:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course, the image does illustrate a monochromatic view (regardless of whether the monochromaticity is due to the lamp or not) and it could be argued that without a replacement image, all you've done is reduce the total information on the page. Are you intending to find a replacement, or should I be on the look out for a better shot? Debivort 09:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The information about HPS color rendition is wrong. HPS lighting has a CRI of 22, which is very poor on a 1-100 scale. This information comes from my lighting texbook called Designing a Quality Lighting Environment, by Susan M. Winchip. Blue414 21:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)