Talk:Sodium

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Article changed over to Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements format by maveric149. Elementbox converted 19:18, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) by Femto. Previous revision was that of 05:04, 22 Jun 2005

Contents

[edit] Information Sources

Some of the text in this entry was rewritten from Los Alamos National Laboratory - Sodium. Other information was obtained from the sources listed on the main page but was reformatted and converted into SI units.

[edit] Talk

I don't see much reason to keep Temp around; does anyone else? -- LDC

In this case I would say no -- I worked on it 3 hours straight instead of my usual habit of speading the work over a few days. If it bugs you that it exists then delete it. --mav

I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some reason to keep it that I hadn't thought of. If no one objects for a while, I will.

Anything on sodium as it relates to nutrition? Actually, there are many things on sodium that relate to nutrition. One example is your soda drink. sodium is used in cooking items in both salt and baking soda. Most nutrional values of sodium always contain sodium used as a mixture. Sodium is used in medicine, the compound that is used in medicine is nitrous oxide, which it is also widely used as an anesthetic during surgery, in which it is injected into the patient to produce unconsciousness for 1 to 3 minutes, only because nitrous oxide has a property to escape the blood stream fast.

Nitrous oxide has nothing to do with sodium. N2O is nitrogen compound and it is a GAS and it is not injected. Dr Vyas

In the formula for a hydrate, I don't think a subscript asterisk is the proper symbol between the compound and its water component. Isn't the proper symbol a centered dot, like the · you get with ·? Or some more distinctive bullet symbol? Furthermore, I think that using a wiki link on just that symbol is silly, making it look like the symbol is an underlined subscript asterisk. Wouldn't following the formula with something like "(see [[hydrate]])" make more sense? Gene Nygaard 00:44, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It sure would make a lot more sense. By the way, to be more HTML 4.0 compatible, you should use • instead of ·.

[edit] Sodium (English, soda) has long been recognized in compounds...

This is clumsy. Any better offers? Rich Farmbrough 17:39, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cost?

Well back then the cost was lower, for certain types of Sodium, but what is the price of Pure, 100%, Sodium today?

[edit] Oxidation number

Isn't the oxidation number of sodium +1? not +2?

Yes, it is. Duly edited. Pedriana 20:42, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Values

someone has put thermal expansion in and in some others too, yet you have not put the starting temp or size of sample or method used (24.221.73.69)

Values are as referenced by chemical elements data references. Thermal expansion of an isotropic solid is a material property that is adequately described by a single coefficient for a given temperature. The coefficient of linear thermal expansion α=71 µm/(m·K) is a mathematical factor that is independent of the size of sample. Femto 1 July 2005 10:05 (UTC)

[edit] Page looks horrible in IE

Image:Napage.jpg

Darrien, this is what the page looks like in IE with normal settings now: not good..

Fixed for now? Since this isn't the only Wikipedia article with an infobox, do we have technical guidelines for the left-aligned-image-flow-around issue? Femto 4 July 2005 11:46 (UTC)

[edit] Minerals of sodium

Sodium chloride, better known as common salt, is the most common compound of sodium, but sodium occurs in many other minerals, such as amphibole, cryolite, halite, soda niter and zeolite

This sentence is a bit misleading since halite is the mineral form of NaCl. Also this sentence implies that NaCl is a mineral on its own. Fornadan (t) 22:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

isn't the laten name for sodium nadium? how is it spelled anyway?

The Latin name for sodium is natrium.

[edit] Insoluble salts?

Are there any (practically) insoluble salts of sodium? If not, why not? --njh 07:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe all group 1 salts are soluble

Sodium Metaphosphate is insoluble, but is soluble in mineral acids, Potassium Chloride or Ammonium Chloride solution. As far as other group 1 elements are concerned; Potassium Chlorate and Potassium Perchlorate have low solubility...

From jtbaker.com and my Handbook of Chemistry by Lange the solubilties are:

Potassium Chlorate 3.3g/100g water at 0°, 7g at 20°C, 57g at 100°C

Potassium Perchlorate 0.75g/100g water at 0°, 1.5g at 21°C, 21.8g at 100°C Scot.parker 20:11, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NaCl as heat transfer?

"NaCl, a compound of sodium ions and chloride ions, is an important heat transfer material." Is this true? It seems that it wouldn't conduct heat very well unless it was molten, which takes about 800˚C. Perhaps NaCl is being confused with sodium metal. Can anyone confirm this?

Removed until sourced. Femto 10:55, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Even if correct, it seems the food industry use is far more important than it's heat transfer characteristics. Stifynsemons 13:46, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of sodium in organic chemistry

"Sodium in its metallic form is an essential component in the making of esters and in the manufacture of organic compounds."

This is completely incorrect. Sodium (or its alloys) may be used as reducing agents or catalysts, but they are not "essential" in making organic compounds. Esters are made by reacting an alcohol with and acid in the presence of a strong acid; there is no sodium, metallic or as a compound, in esters, nor is it used in their production process. Until someone can come up with a good summary of the use of sodium in organic chemistry, I am removing this sentence. --71.227.190.111 00:52, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not too familar with Wikipedia

But the yellow sodium light emitted from the telescope in the image from the SOR, Starfire Optical Range, is not from a dye laser. I tried to edit the page, it seemed to work at work, but at home I don't see the same edits.

The light source is a FASOR, which stands for Frequency Addition Source of Optical Radiation. It is two single mode, single frequency IR solid state lasers, 1.064 and 1.319 microns that are sum frequency mixed in an LBO crystal within a doubly resonant cavity.


It seems to be okay for me. Try dumping your .tmp files. Your system may be giving you a photo with an old caption. I've been fooled that way before. SBHarris 07:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Repetitive

In the first paragraph the description of sodium is repeated in the second paragragh (now under Notable charactaristics). Also the word 'metal' seems to be overly repeated. For example under 'Notable charactaristics' it says, "Like the other alkali metals, sodium metal is a soft, light-weight, silvery white, reactive metal. Well the rest of the paragragh goes on like that. I would leave the word metal in the expression, 'alkali metal' and remove it every where else in the paragraph. For example from the first paragragh...

Sodium is a chemical element that has been assigned the symbol Na (Natrium in Latin) and the atomic number 11. Sodium is a soft, silvery, very reactive element and is a member of the alkali metals within ‘group 1’ (formally known as ‘group IA’) of the periodic table. Sodium readily oxidizes in air necessitating storage in an inert environment.

Notable Characteristics

Compared with the other alkali metals, sodium is generally more reactive than lithium but less so than potassium in accordance with periodic law; for example, their reaction in water, chlorine gas, etc. Owing to it’s extreme reactivity it is found in nature only as a compound and never as the free element. It burns in air producing sodium oxide and/or sodium peroxide but will not form the nitride as does lithium. The density of Sodium is less than that of water with which it reacts exothermically (produces heat). Small pea sized pieces will swim around the surface of water until they are consumed by it whereas large pieces will explode. The reaction with water produces very caustic sodium hydroxide and highly flammable hydrogen gas. In any case metallic sodium is considered an extreme hazard and will cause severe skin and eye injury if suitable precautions are not observed.

Scot.parker 18:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] All sodium salts without exception are soluble in water?

This statement is not true and needs to be removed.

Yes, go back and read the article.Scot.parker 14:05, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just Wondering...

If you wanted to show your friends how reactive sodium really is, how much is a safe amount to use? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Frogger22 (talk • contribs) 04:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

Isn't it cool that when you eat salt, that you are really eating two harmful substances, sodium and chlorine? Ha! I never thought about that until a few days ago... Taekwondo_Tiger_Girl_22

[edit] Reactivity Li > Na > K

I'm highly suspicious of this sentence:

"Compared with the other alkali metals, sodium is generally more reactive than lithium and less so than potassium,"

My understanding is that reactivity decreases as you go down the periodic table.

As I recall, the ionization energy of Li is greater than Na which is greater than K, but not being a chemist, somebody more knowledgeable than me should verify this.


I think the sentence ought to read: "Compared with the other alkali metals, sodium is generally less reactive than lithium and more so than potassium,"


Clemwang 23:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure I can find a reference for the statement tonight. When I do, I will include the reference in the text, with rewriting of the sentence as necessary. Karl Hahn (T) (C) 23:08, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I think based on the above section entitled "Repetitive", the sentence was worded about the way I suggested. I think somebody accidently changed the meaning of the sentence without intending to while removing the repetition. I'm going to fix it the way I think is correct (and corresponds to the older edit.

Clemwang 23:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The truth about this is more complicated than expected. Reduction potential in aquia are Li=-3.02V, Na=-2.71V, K=-2.92V, Rb=-2.93V, Cs=-2.92. So energy release reacting with water is greatest for Li, least for Na, and in between for the other two. But energy release for direct combination with Cl, Br, or I is Li < Na < K < Rb < Cs. But combination with F is the opposite. So is the formation of M2O energy. So there is no unified trend. There are also solubility trends between Na and K depending upon the strength of the anion. But there is no way to sum all this up in one or two sentences. So your original suspicion was warranted. I haven't decided what to do about it yet. Karl Hahn (T) (C) 02:57, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emission Spectrum

Why is there no information on the emission spectrum of Na? Especially considering sodium's use in astronomy, and, well, anything that uses the "Sodium Line" because it's so obvious and well known... MyOwnLittlWorld 00:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] manufacture of sodium

Since the melting point of sodium hydrogencarbonate(bicarbonate) is 50°C and it will decompose at 60°C, why don't we make sodium by electrolysis when the bicarbonate is melted? This will be cheaper and easier than the method mentioned in the article.Superdvd 11:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know where you got your info about NaHCO3 melting at 50°C. Try melting it for yourself. All you need is some baking soda, a metal tablespoon, and a mug of hot water to gently heat the spoon. You'll see for yourself how good your info is. Karl Hahn (T) (C) 13:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I had got that info from wiki.........but it is now deleted.lolSuperdvd 09:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Atomic Spectrum Lines

I liked this new section up to and including, "This fine structure results from a spin-orbit interaction of the valence electron in the 3p electronic state." After that, the discussion of hyperfine orbital states becomes too arcane for an article like this. There are very few readers who will have a clue what the orbital symbols mean, much less how they result in the splitting of the D lines. An article like this shouldn't be assuming detailed knowledge of quantum physics. Simply explaining that there are subtle effects that further split the D1 and D2 lines into hyperfine lines ought to be sufficient. Karl Hahn (T) (C) 00:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

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