User talk:Smith2006

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[edit] Reponse to your "kind reprimand"

Carissime frater in Christo,

You write: "The claims made by you about the validity of the Ngo Dinh Thuc consecrations". What claims did I make? I was careful to point out that the Holy See had made no declaration about the validity. It only said it said it would treat those involved as in the state they were in before. The Holy See did say that. So what have I done wrong? Oremus pro invicem. Lima 20:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Roman Catholic Church

You have uploaded a few pictures saying you are the creator of them. Were you really at Bishop Thuc's Mass in 1982, and also at that traditionalist ordination listed as 2002? Also, the Roman Catholic Church article is about the Church as a whole. The particular ordination picture looks nice and has a place somewhere (if it's yours to give), but it does not represent very well the face of the Church today. I don't push to have Eastern Catholic pictures there. Gimmetrow 14:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Monsieur,
ou Madame,
Je ne sais qui vous puissiez être... Mais ce que je puis dire, vous êtes un beau menteur. J'étais présente au sacre de Mgr Roux et de Mgr Boni, vous non.... Pourquoi mentir avec une "fonction" d'historien"...
Louise Littieri.
Monsieur ou Madame,
Je ne sais écrire en Anglais, je suis italienne, si vous voulez mon adresse, je puis vous la donner et puis témoigner de ce que j'ai vu.. le 18 septembre 1982 à Loano Italie et avec d'autres personnes je jure d'avoir assisée au sacre épiscopal de Mgr Roux et de Mgr Boni, à la chapelle qu'ils avait à Loano. D'ailleur Mgr Thuc était à la Pensione Millone de la Via Aurelia à Loano, vous pouvez demander à la questura de Savona puisque il y avait un régistre des personnes vivant à l'hotel. (j'étais femme de ménage dans cette pension). Louise Littieri.


I take some offense at your insinuations about my motives. Gimmetrow 14:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Obviously, Fontgombault is part of the Church. Let me put it this way - would you think it appropriate if I put in a picture of an Eastern full-immersion baptism and confirmation of an infant, and just referred to it as "confirmation"? Gimmetrow 15:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, then that identifies our difference. I would not find it appropriate to display a picture of Eastern infant confirmation and just refer to it as "confirmation" because I think that would misrepresent the majority Roman Catholic practice in the main RC article. It *would* be appropriate in the specialized confirmation article, where it could be given appropriate context as a custom in particular communities. I'm not sure what you mean by saying "Fontgombault is in the Latin rite Catholic Church" - we're talking about the Roman Catholic Church article. Gimmetrow 20:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

If you put antiques on display, it is only right that they be accompanied by an explanation, as you yourself have now begun to provide. The first explanation with which I accompanied your picture was incomplete: I must improve it. Oh, by the way, "show", not "elevate" is the word in the Tridentine Roman Missal: "Quibus verbis prolatis, statim Hostiam consecratam genuflexus adorat: surgit, ostendit populo, reponit super Corporale ..." Lima 04:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Please prove those acolythes kneeling int he Bohermeen pictures are priests. They are old acolythes. In 1950s Ireland, I was in my late teens and early twenties and neither then nor before did I ever see anything but young boys of elementary-school age (like the two in the picture) acting as altar servers in parish churches. On the occasion of the bishop's annual or, in some cases, biennial visit to the parish, children who would have left primary school before his next visit were confirmed; that's why the two altar boys are slightly younger than the confirmands. I don't need to prove the men kneeling at the altar rails were priests. If Smith2006 ceases to claim they were part of a normal Sunday congregation, I will cease to state what they were. The bishop is kneeling. Normally Confirmation is conferred at a Mass celebrated by the Bishop. Yes, though still not obligatory, that is normal now, one of the improvements made in the wake of the Second Vatican Council. It was not always so. So why are you constantly reverting my editions? Constantly removing my comments? I can't think why, unless perhaps (if the statement is true) Smith2006's editions and comments are constantly erroneous. Is Roman Catholicism your monopoly? Certainly not, not is it Smith2006's. Kind regards, Smith2006 14:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC) Warm good wishes to Smith2006. Lima 15:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I must apologize, not for the first time, to Gimmetrow for not having taken his observations seriously enough. I really am sorry, and have no sufficient excuse. The candles he refers to, and to see which I inexcusably failed to take the trouble to look again at the picture, are certainly the candles that used to be put out for Benediction or for the Quarant'Ore (Forty Hours) devotion.

On the other hand, the girls are not wearing a mantilla. Irish women wore hats to Mass, not mantillas, which they looked on as a Spanish custom and would sometimes bring back from a visit to Spain as a curiosity. (The mantillas that I saw brought back were always black, not white, and, if I remember right, shorter than those on the girls in the picture.) So who are the girls? Members of some sodality, like the Children of Mary? I confess I have nothing concrete to propose. Were they perhaps dressed like that for a Eucharistic Procession to follow the Mass? I no longer hold to my previous hypothesis that it is a Confirmation Mass.

The two candlesticks for seven candles each are indeed yet another indication that this Mass was no ordinary 1950s Mass, and indeed that, even with such a plentiful supply of priests, Catholics in Ireland hardly ever experienced a High Mass. Lima 18:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish chant and early Christian music

Hi, Smith2006! I've been working on bringing the Gregorian chant article, and have some thoughts about the recent edits you made to that page. When you get a chance, would you take a look at the talk page? I think you may be working with outdated information. Thanks! Peirigill 19:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your edits on German history

You do not own the Historical Eastern Germany article. Therefore please refrain from statements such as "Don´t touch my version." (see this edit[1]) The rest of the edit description is a personal attack against me. See the WP:NPA (No personal attacks) Wikipedia policy. For your information I'm not a Polish (or any other) nationalist. I'm just a proud Pomeranian who believes the heritage of both Polish and German people should be remebered in all the lands that changed hands between the two nations in their intertwined history. Your edit record shows a strong bias for making NPOV (seeWP:NPOV) and inflamatory statements on many issues related to German history. You also tend to add unsourced material whenever you think it can further your opinions (see Wikipedia:Citing sources). Please remember Wikipedia is for readers of any political views from all nations. Therefore we should try to present objective and unbiased facts and where a controversy exists, try to present the views of both sides in a non-inflamatory way. This is most of all an enyclopedia: a source of of objective facts. However in addition to that, I strongly believe it should be a place that heals old wounds, not re-opens them. Tschüss, from a ProudPomeranian 06:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edits (Szczecin etc.)

Hi, it seems I have interfered with some of your recent edits including Szczecin, Gdańsk etc. I only wanted to let you know that I believe in you doing the edits in good faith and that if I reerted anything it was not intended as any POV pushing on my side either. Particularly, it would be interesting to have some more sourced information on what happened to Stettin in 1945, how it got into Polish hands, who gave orders and also about subsequential expulsions of the German inhabitants of the town. Would you have some verifiable sources about this ? --Lysytalk 13:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pope Pius XII

Please discuss on the talk page before adding an unexplained NPOV tag to a featured article, removing images, or adding unreferenced text. The Pinchas Lapide figure is already sourced and in the "contemporary" section. As for the other things you wanted to add, you need a source. Please discuss on the talk page before making radical changes to an article. savidan(talk) (e@) 22:23, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Could you please enable you e-mail function?

How about signing here.

[edit] Your move proposal for Aloïs Hudal at Requested moves

Your move request has been archived from the Requested moves page, because nobody was given the chance to comment on the talk page of the article. If you still want to move the article, please re-submit the request by following the instructions at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Steps for requesting a page move. Regards, Kimchi.sg 08:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Assuming good faith

Hi there, two things regarding [2]:

  1. The edit in question was made in good faith, and so was not vandalism, so please don't call it that.
  2. Non-registered editors have the same editing privileges as registered editors.

Cheers, JYolkowski // talk 21:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Martin Luther Edit

Welcome to the Luther page. I'd like to comment on your addition. Before the Reformation, there was no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church. This is a term used after the Reformation to refer to those who remained loyal to the Pope rather than joining the Lutheran, Reformed or another Christian tradition. I just thought you'd like to know why I'll likely change it later today. Bob Smith --CTSWyneken(talk) 12:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

What I'm saying is, the term is anachronistic. It did not exist before the Reformation. So it is inaccurate to call the church "Roman Catholic." Second, there was no monastic order in the West that was not "Catholic" at the time, so the term itself, if meant to refer to submitting to the authority of the Pope is redundant. It's like saying "an American US Marine." Finally, we are supposed to use printed sources to support our edits. Do you have a source that calls Luther a "Roman Catholic monk?" If not, let's simply drop the language.--CTSWyneken(talk) 12:53, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! Although it's not about winning in my book, just trying to keep things accurate. I'd appreciate your thoughts on the content of the article on the Martin Luther talk page -- if you can read past the vigorous debate over Martin Luther and the Jews. I'm trying to work on the rest of the article while that struggle goes on. --CTSWyneken(talk) 12:58, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to the Martin Luther Page

Hello Smith, welcome to the Martin Luther page. Thanks for your participation and interest. You might want to check over Wikipedia's policy on documentation and source citation. You can see there is quite a lot of documentation for assertions and comments made on the Luther page, so when you post a statement, it is appreciated and often required that you provide a source for your comment. Wiki does not permit what it terms "original research" which really means statements that are not sourced. Have fun! If I can be of any assistance, let me know. Ptmccain 13:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please join!

I'm currently trying to get a Dutch military task force started, would you join us? From what I've seen on the Netherlands in World war II article, you could most certainly provide a (more than) worthy contribution.

If you're interested, and I hope you are, please drop a note at this talk page Cheers,  Rex  16:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Priestly ordination.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Priestly ordination.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page to provide the necessary information on the source or licensing of this image (if you have any), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Gimmetrow 18:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Could you either update the image page or explain the source better? I am hoping you can show this is a public domain image, because I would like to be able to use it for other projects. Gimmetrow 17:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I think there is still some confusion about the picture. If you took the picture yourself you can release it into the public domain, and then there is no need to mention "fair use". "Fair use" only applies to copyrighted images. So the first question is whether it is copyrighted or in the public domain. Where does the image come from? Did a friend of yours take the picture with a digital camera? Was it a photo print that you scanned? Did you grab it from a website and edit it? Gimmetrow 03:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
If a friend took it, then the image description should ideally be as clear as possible. For instance: "Taken by private individual (provide contact info) who releases it into the public domain." If it is certainly public domain, mentioning "fair use" is confusing. Gimmetrow 15:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Germans

Hi, care to take part in the Germans article, specifically the usage of the term regarding Austrian and Swiss nationals of German ethnicity? I see you have a healthy historical perspective on issues related to Germany. P.S. Good work on reversing the Nazi-Christian cooperation myth. Let's not forget that the church doscouraged its faithful from voting for the Nazis, while entry into the SS had far greater chances of success when one didnt belong to any religious congregation, and had proof thereof. Ulritz 15:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article needing cleanup, or not worth it?

I noticed your name on a number of Catholic articles, including traditionalists, and wonder if you could take a look at a new article that just popped up, Latin Mass Society of Australia. Reads like a personal essay by a member rather than an article, and it's not well written. Looks like they're more than Latin Tridentine advocates, with also a sedevacantist tinge, and not currently in good standing. Don't know if it's worth cleaning up, or is the organization really not worth noting? -- Fan-1967 03:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verdinaso request

Are you the author of this edit: [3]? (Curiously enough, it does not show up under your contributions.) If so, did you see this request: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#Please may I have the E-mail of the person who wrote article?  --LambiamTalk 23:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Extermination through labour

Hi there. I noticed you added a dispute tag to the article on Extermination through labour, yet you did not start a dispute at the talk page. I took the liberty of removing the tag. //Halibutt 23:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

As per your request I added the references you requested and removed the tag. Hope that's ok with you. If you want more references - just google them up for yourself, there's plenty of books in Google Books as well. Your nearest library would also be of some help, just ask for any book on the German WWII concentration camps. //Halibutt 06:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Albert Forster.jpg

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[edit] Danzig, etc.

Hi there. I basically agree with your comments on Danzig and other formerly German places in present-day Poland. I fought the Polish ultra-nationalists long and hard on these issues last year but eventually concluded they weren't amenable to reason. The explanation I've heard from others is that the Poles have internalized 50 years of their own propaganda about the so-called "recovered territories" into a mystical belief that Poland has a sacred right to all the territories east of the Oder-Neisse in perpetuity, and that the Germans were merely "occupying" them for six centuries. (Never mind that if you go back far enough, the Poles weren't there, either. Never mind that at one point the Goths lived in the Vistula Delta. Never mind that the human rights of all the Germans in those territories in '45 were systematically and savagely violated — they were all "Nazis" anyway).

The thing that makes Polish nationalism so intractable is, it's the Poles' personal identity, along with their peculiarly intense brand of Catholicism. The two are, I think, mystically bound up together.

Poles seem to have a kind of eternal-victim complex. ("Poland is not lost forever ...") That may be understandable given the history of Poland in the last three centuries. And one must keep in mind that the Germans were indeed arrogant, brutal and savage in their occupation of Poland during WWII. But it's time for the Poles to grow up and become a normal nation in a normal Europe -- as I think the Germans largely have. In Germany, people who stridently declare that Gdańsk, for example, will always and forever be "Danzig" are a small minority on the lunatic fringe of society. In Poland their counterparts in nationalism seem to be a mainstream majority.

Before I go, let me say that I'm not anti-Polish. I lived in Poland for about half a year and liked many Polish people I met. BTW, I also spent some time in Nederland, many years ago.

Tot ziens!

Sca 12:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply. It strikes me that the nationalism of present-day Poland may also be conditioned by the almost total homogeneity of the population, which formerly was much more diverse. (Thank you, Adolf!) It's too bad Poles can't appreciate some positive aspects of Deutschtum in their own history; Cf. the Wiki wrangle over Copernicus's ethnicity.

Sca 13:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they use the Kashubian claim to try to make out that Gũnter Grass is not wholly a 'German' writer. Sinnlos! BTW, Grass is a particular enthusiasm of mine; I contributed a bit to the Wiki entry on him.
It has struck me that most of Poland's larger cities are ex-German cities and some of them, notably Gdańsk and Wrocław, show in their restored sections the German/Prussian architectural heritage — as do many other places in Poland, such as Olsztyn.
It's been 10 years since I visited Gdańsk, but at that time one could not find a single reference in a museum, public building or tourist brochure to the city's German past, which I find culturally tragic and dishonest. It's different in Kaliningrad, where the Russians have come round to making quite a point of the city's Prusso-German history (see the first photo on my user page). I suspect this is because the Russians conquered Königsberg on their own in '45 — a fact they're immensely proud of, alas — while the Poles, unfortunately, were soundly beaten by the Germans and only acquired the ex-German cities at the hands of the Soviets, who also occupied Poland in their turn. Also, the Russkis want German tourist euros.
As to Poland's homogeneity: I'm no authority, and I do know that there remains a rather small ethnic-German population in the district of Opole/Oppeln in Upper Silesia, where ethnicities long were mixed — or flexible depending on the poltical winds. (Modern example: Miroslav Klose). But my understanding is that most of the million or so Germans remaining in Poland after the expulsions were allowed to emigrate in the '70s and '80s as a response to Ostpolitik and West German economic aid. Also, I understand that the Polish-speaking Masurians, who were culturally Germanized (and voted for Germany in 1921), were mostly expelled after the war, along with the Germans. I don't know about the Ukrainians you mention. Obviously, the Jews are all but gone, and most of prewar Poland's Belorussians and Lithuanians were in areas gobbled up by Uncle Joe in '39 in his deal with Onkel 'Dolf. All this leads me to believe that Poland today is maybe 97 percent Polish — and 94 percent Catholic.

Sca 14:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed in Kaliningrad that they make a beer called Ostmark (Остмарк). And the Russians also use the word Kartoffel for potato — as do the Poles! Perhaps the three groups could gather together under the sign of the lowly tuber — for which my state, sadly, is famous.

Sca 15:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Ja, I know about you Dutch and aardappels.

Sca 16:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Err... in addition to Sca's outrageous generalizations about the Polish people above (ever imagined anyone making the same set of remarks about, say, Dutch or Jewish people?), a small hint at the end of the page. First of all, people hardly believe in the recovered status of the recovered territories. It's merely a short-cut name, much easier to pronounce than parts of western Poland that used to be part of Germany between 1871 and 1945, and parts of various states prior to that date. Also, I don't think there is a single Catholic among our small Polish wiki community here. And certainly not among those whom Sca contacted. Anyway, sorry to interrupt and feel free to contact me if you want to know the other side of this story as well :) //Halibutt 06:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Frankly, I was born and raised in the capital. As all capitals in the world, the culture, traditions and even language of Warsaw differs from what is typical to the rest of the country. I never lived in the west of Poland and, frankly speaking, although I find the city of Wrocław fascinating (mostly thanks to great novels and short SF stories by Andrzej Ziemiański), what used to be Lwów is much closer to my heart than what used to be Breslau. I feel better in what used to be a Polish city that is now inhabitted almost exclusively by Ukrainians, than in a city that used to be a German city and now is inhabitted almost exclusively by... the descendants of those who lived in Lwów until 1945. But perhaps it's just me.
As to religiousness of my colleagues and friends, as I said Warsaw is different and I admit my friends might not be typical to the rest of the country. However, among us there's barely a trace of a "typically Polish Catholicism". As to me personally, my parents raised me in a liberally Catholic surrounding, baptized me and sent me to first communion and all. However, as intellectuals, they never were to religious themselves and never applied to the blindly-religious group, who went to the church to whisper some pre-prepared formulas. Likewise, as soon as I grew up, I started searching my own religiousness and spent lots of time in churches of many denominations, including the synagogue . Eventually I'm a believer, but I don't subscribe myself to any rite in particular.
Most of my friends (young generation of people from Warsaw) have passed the same route. Some have swayed towards agnosticism, others ended up in a place I am now. That doesn't have anything to do with neo-leftist tendencies, rather with lack of oppression. Note that what is a typical Polish Catholicism is a religion of the oppressed. For centuries the church was the only all-national institution that was allowed to exist - and was crucial in preserving the Polish culture. As an interesting fact, the Protestantism served the very same role in the area of Cieszyn, where the official religion of Catholic Austria was confronted with Protestantism of local Poles. Then came the Commies and again the Catholic Church became a state within a state for all those who felt their country is under foreign occupation. You could not emigrate as the Commies would not give you a passport, but you at least had your local church, an island of relative liberty within the oppressive, totalitarian state.
Now then, after 1989 (I was 8 then) we don't have to go to church in order to listen to true history of our country. You have it at school, even more than you could ask for. We don't have to go to church to read banned books, as there are none. We don't have to go to church to reassure ourselves that our side is more numerous - as there is no "Them" nowadays. However strange it might seem, religion started to play only the religious role. Social, economic or political roles are now open to any organization. Hence I might say that I simply do not need the church.
Anti-religiosity is yet another issue. I don't think there is any among my friends. On the other hand there is a growing resentment against this or that priest who rides a very expensive car and so on. But that sentiment was here since middle ages and was only briefly suppressed during the communist times. //Halibutt 11:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply to Halibutt

Hello, Halibutt. How are you?
When I was in Poland I was told – by the president of Unimil, of all things – that Poland was 94 percent Catholic. Is this not the case?
I'm sure there are all sorts of Catholics in Poland, as elsewhere. But generally my impression was and is that the Polish RC Church is one of the most conservative doctrinally. I agree that "for centuries the church was the only all-national institution that was allowed to exist - and was crucial in preserving the Polish culture." I read about this somewhere in the context of the Church being a repository for the Polish sense of national identity, since the state was highly variable over the centuries. And I do think that those Poles who are very strongly nationalist or, if you prefer, patriotic, have an almost mystical passion about it, as some and possibly many Poles do about religion. (The same can be said of not a few Americans being simultaneously nationalistic and fanatically religious, but usually they aren't RC.)
Of course there are Poles who are moderate in their views. But this whole discussion started out as an explanation of why the squabble over German place-names still is going on here on Wiki. Please note that in the beginning I said, "the explanation I've heard from others" (italics added). By "others" I mean some other Wikipedians in the past. The thoughts above are an attempt to find a rational explanation for what seems to me to be an irrational phenomenon. If I've over-generalized, I'm only expressing what I've read and experienced. It seems to me that if there were nothing unusually nationalistic about Poles in general – that is, not all Poles, but many and perhaps most Poles – then we wouldn't be having these discussions on Wiki. And also, certain Polish politicians wouldn't occasionally raise the spurious specter of German revanchism – or at least "revisionism" – 60 years and three generations after the Third Reich, which shall forever remain a cause for collective shame among Germans.
PS: I thought you were Jewish?

Sca 16:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

To Smith2006 and Halibutt: Thank you both for your interesting comments. Of course I fully endorse the thought that one may be Jewish and Polish, Jewish and German (as many of the initial Jewish victims of the Nazis thought they were), Jewish and American, etc. What I meant was, I had the impression from what Halibutt said previously that whatever religious identity he had centered on being Jewish; I certainly did not mean that he was somehow not Polish in an ethnic, cultural or political (nationality) sense.

BTW, and I know this may sound like a cliché, but my best friend, whose last name is Etlinger, is Jewish, though not religiously so. Also, my long-time doctor, whose last name is Schneider, in whom I have confided much of a personal nature, is Jewish.

Mazel tov.

Sca 16:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Günter Grass

You might be interested in my contribution to the Günter Grass discussion page, under the heading "Grass's admission."

Tot ziens.

Sca 15:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright problems with Image:Historical_Eastern_Germany_and_so-called_Sudetenland.jpg

An image that you uploaded, Image:Historical_Eastern_Germany_and_so-called_Sudetenland.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems because it is a suspected copyright violation. Please look there if you know that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), and then provide the necessary information there and on its page, if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

I have serious doubts about the copyright status of Image:Historical Eastern Germany and so-called Sudetenland.jpg. You claim in the image description that it was created in Nazi times. This is not true. There are post-1945 borders of Poland clearly marked in the image. Therefore it was most certainly created in Federal Republic of Germany and as such is still copyrighted. The fact of republishing it in the Soviet Union does not change the status of the image. I'm marking the image as a copyright infringement and removing it from Historical Eastern Germany. These steps are required by a Wikipedia policy: Wikipedia:Image use policy. Please do not take this personally. Tschüss! Friendly Neighbour 19:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Smith2006, please read the notice on the image page. You are not allowed to remove the notice, neither to use the image in articles before its fate is decided.
Besides, who told you that re-publishing a copyrighted work in the Soviet Union cancels the original copyright? It's obviously not true. The image is still copyrighted in Germany and therefore also in the whole EU and in countries which recognize its copyrights (including the United States). Friendly Neighbour 21:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Hitler_correct_picture.jpg

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[edit] Double standards?

Persecution by Stalinists and Communists? Well first of all wrt to Tsarists, (let's take things one at a time) in 1795 following the last partition of Poland Russian Empire gained a lion's share of ethnically Ruthenian land. Immediately there were voiced from the Russian Orthodox Church to force their revertion to Orthodoxy. But Empress Cathrine II overruled the ROC Synod's attempts with a mandate on religious freedom. Only those out of free will that chose to revert did so. Moreover the social structure of those lands remained unchanged. Polish magnates still ruled the countryside. Russian presence was very limited, whilst cities were mostly populated by Jewish/Polish people as well. That continued until 1831 when the Poles launched the November Uprising. Because the Uniate synod supported it, after the Russian Imperial victory, those bishops were purged. As were the authorities of Polish magnates. Eight years later, the Uniate church at the synod of Polotsk terminated the Brest Unia.

Today Belarus remains overwhelmingly an Orthodox country. Austro-Hungary, you might add the massacre of Thalergof, when over a thousand Galician Ruthenians who refused to remain Uniate were slaughtered. Or how about the later second republic of Poland when thousands of Orthdox property in eastern Poland was confiscated and handed to Catholic authorities.

Now then, Soviets, I as someone whose family lived through the USSR times know of what it was like from the inside, and yes it was not a honeymoon, but it was not living hell. After the war, the uniate church, agreed to live peacefully with the communists, in return hardly any church property was confiscated, even Nikita Khrushchev during his visit to Western Ukraine, paid a visit to the head of the Uniate church. Yes there was a group in 1940s which called for compleate annexation of the Uniates into Orthodoxy, yes they did manage to convince the Soviet authorities to do so. BUT the ROC actually condemns the Synod of Lvov. Also even though the synod did make all the uniate church Orthodox, the overall structure was unaffected. If you remained a local cleric, you still were a local cleric. The Orthodox canons were also relaxed on those territories, allowing the clergy to shave beards for example or conduct liturgy in Ukrainian rather than Slavonic. Talk about purges and repressions, at times when the Orthodox communities in the USSR numbered just over a thousand, nearly half of those were in western Ukraine. In Lviv only ONE chuch was closed. Finally let I remind you that even though the ROC does condemn the Synod of Lvov, nevertheless for two generations it raised the Uniate clergy in its seminaries and academies.

Now then 1989, Rukh and the new Uniate people declare that all property held by UGCC in 1939 be returned promptly. What happens next? Violance, of extreme measure, when gangs used to break into the churches and beat (sometimes to death) Orthodox priests. Or how the newely elected "democratic" local government turned a blind eye on it. You want to talk about NPOV, then I suggest heavily you first drop all double standards. --Kuban Cossack 18:09, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ngo Dinh Thuc

Hi, I'll watch that article for a while. Thanks for the heads up. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 08:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Hitler Posing Official Colour Picture.jpg

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[edit] World war II images taken by german citizens

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[edit] Pre-Tridentine Mass

You were asked to provide citations in support of your sweeping statements about the situation existing two hundred years before Gregory the Great. Instead you deleted the requests for verification. This naturally led to deletion of your unsourced statements. Quote sources for them, and then put them back in. Lima 14:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Start with any one of your statements. The first statement you were asked to provide a citation for was to the effect that many scholars deem musical scholar Richard Hoppin's analysis incomplete and partly incorrect. Please quote the words with which that judgement is expressed in a reliable source. Otherwise withdraw the statement. Are you implying that Father Adrian Fortescue said it in a 1912 book? Was Hoppin even born then? Lima 15:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questioning of origin for Image:Zeppelin Picture.jpg

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[edit] The omitted "not" makes a difference

Thanks for your correction to the Emmanuel Milingo article. My edit of 19:58, 1 October 2006 changed the photo caption to say he was an archbishop rather than the previous caption which said he was a priest, and my previous edit had said he was a retired archbishop rather than an ex-archbishop. But in the edit summary I left out "not" and reversed the intent of my edit. I understand that Roman Catholic canon law says a sacrament cannot be revomed by excommunication, so if he ordains someone a priest or bishop, the ordination is effective, and all that the penalty of excommunication can do is prevent them from serving a parish or diocese, and similarly excommunicate anyone who receives sacraments from them. The Roman Catholic Pope was excommunicated by the eastern church in 1054, and his successors have gotten along nicely since then, and contrariwise for the eastern church. The Pope in the late 18th century claimed that Anglican bishop ordinations were not valid because some forms were omitted, but the Anglican bishops responded that the Popes predecessors had not usede those forms either, so that would make him not a bishop either. Edison 14:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your edit to David Irving

Hi. I was interested in your edit [4] adding a NPOV query to the article. I couldn't see any evidence in the article's talk page reflecting this, so I reverted it. Apologies if I have missed something there, but I very strongly feel that any NPOV concerns should be addressed in talk first. Hope you agree. --Guinnog 00:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] At least Germans respect Slavic peoples

In you recent discussion with an anonymous editor at Talk:Historical Eastern Germany you wrote: At least Germans respect Slavic peoples, e.g. the Sorbians in the Oberlausitz. This respect is not mutual concerning the Nationalist Poles. You probably consider me to be one of the "nationalistic Poles", nevertheless I'd like to try to open your eyes to ethnic minority situations in Poland and Germany. According to 2002 census, there are about 150 thousand Germans in Poland. German minority in Poland has all the minority rights (language, newspapers, schools with 37 thousand students etc.), plus guaranteed seats in Polish parliament. On the other hand, there is over 320 thousand Polish minority in Germany (not including seasonal workers and Polish origin people, which would make it about 2 million). German government does not recognize any rights of Polish ethnic minority in Germany and does everything to assimilate them. As for the Sorbs, you might not know that they have tried to establish their own land of the Federal Republic in Lusatia, but this was suppressed by German government in 1990s. So much for your "mutual respect". --Lysytalk 13:13, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

You challenge the 150,000 figure of Germans in Poland. Yet this is the result of recent national census, while your 300,000 figure is just fiction not backed by any facts. You speak of Poles in Germany as "supposed Poles", which is already telling. You say that they hold German passports and therefore do not deserve their minority rights. Do you think that Germans in Poland do not have Polish passports ? As for Sorbs, they did not want a state separate from Germany, as you know Germany is a federal republic. They only wanted to have their state officially recognized within it, yet this was suppressed. Try to compare German policies towards minorities with e.g. Polish and you'll realize who is really backwards here. First, Germany denies official recognition to many minorities. Then even the officially recognized minorities have their minority rights limited and they are being gradually assimilated and Germanized. Have you heard of any guaranteed seats for Polish minority in Bundestag ? Or for any other ethnic minority ? Ask yourself why not. --Lysytalk 07:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Traditional minorities

All right, I'm not aware of any significant discrimination policies against the ethnic minorities in modern Poland. Sure this happened in the past, but today ? You wrote that Germans or Kashubians are being discriminated against. Do you have anything specific in mind, or are these just gossips ? As for Oppeln region (BTW: why don't you use the modern Opole name ?), there is both Opole County and Opole Voivodeship separate administrative units in Poland, so I'm not sure what do you mean. Poland is not a federal republic as I'm sure you know, so it does not have "Lands" as in Germany but "Voivodeships". Also what do you mean by "census being recognized by European Union" ? Is there any procedure for a census to be recognized that the Polish census failed ? I don't know how German education is being funded in Poland but I expect it is from public funds. Do you know of anything that proofs otherwise ? I agree with you that talking about the "Recovered Territories" today would be crazy, as it was mostly the political concept of the communist regime, but this belongs to the history. I am upset by all this Polish-German pushing and name changing on English wiki. I would prefer very much that instead of trying to prove that "we are better than you", both Poles and Germans would recognize their common heritage as something to be proud of. Especially that there were different waves of German colonization, and not all of them should be perceived as negative by Poles. Unfortunately all the clearer view is eclipsed by Nazism experience and later hatred that was only further developed and supported (without much difficulties of course) by the communist regime. --Lysytalk 08:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

All right, it seems we do agree on general issues but may disagree on details. We agree that most of the German colonization until 19th century was positive and often invited and promoted by the Poles themselves and was usually beneficial both for the Poles and Germans. We also agree that the later colonization was often aggressive and sometimes even criminal. Particularly the Nazi aggression and policies (too many to mention) resulted in mutual hatred. This was further increased by the expulsions of millions of Germans. Most of the people who were thrown out of their houses and humiliated, would remember this throughout their lifetime and pass this onto their children. This is so obvious that it may seem as the whole expulsions were designed by someone whose purposed was to further increase the enmity between Poles and Germans for the next many years. Obviously the Poles after the war felt frustrated and revengeful and these feelings could be very easily used for any political purposes. Also the border between Poland and Germany was not settled because Germany was so strong and in position to oppose it but only because the Soviets wanted this issue to remain open. This way Poland could be dependent on Soviet protection in the future ("if not for the protection of the Soviet Army in Poland, the ugly Germans would come again and eat you"). I think the Polish behaviour after WW2 could be easily understood and explained (but not justified) by the war trauma.

Now, what we do not agree on is the view on the modern situation. Bilingual government services for Poles in Germany are fiction as far as I know. "Poland refuses to offer anything to Germans" seems weasel talk to me. There are many things that Poland offered, e.g. the investment opportunities for German companies like Siemens A.G. Do you think that German companies invest in Poland because they love Poles so much ? No, they do it because there are offered better conditions. The attempt to use Donald Tusk father's Wehrmacht story against him was certainly tasteless, but we don't know who eventually got points for that. Actually many people voted for Tusk because of this. Also the same person (Jacek Kurski) who tried the trick in Tusk later demanded that Günter Grass honorary citizenship of Gdańsk is revoked because of his SS past. There was an opinion survey conducted on this and you might be surprised but the vast majority of Poles supported Grass, despite his hiding his SS service, and dismissed Kurski's idea. As for bilingual street names in Wrocław, why would you like to see that ? How about Adolf Hitler Strasse ? You ask who built Breslau. Why don't you think who destroyed it in 1945 and who rebuilt it later. The town was almost completely ruined by Germans and Soviets. I think Hala Ludowa was renamed along with the "Recovered Territories" ideology, but now the old name "Hala Stulecia" is being increasingly used[5]. Anyway, similar renaming is a rather normal practice not only in Poland. Germans changed the names of most of the towns and villages in Masuren to German already in 1930s. Also streets in Polish towns were immediately renamed whenever Germans entered there. Who named Łódź Litzmannstadt ? Or does Karl Marx Stadt ring a bell ? The same happened in Polish towns after WW2. The names of all the pre-war streets named e.g. after Piłsudski were changed and many streets were named after communist leaders. As for modern Germany policies, I still think that Poland has much more liberal policies towards its ethnic minorities than Germany. How many Polish language school are there in Germany per Polish person ? Compare this to over 300 German lecture language schools in Poland for 150,000 Germans. I know that you believe there are more Germans in Poland, and this is because you probably would like to count Silesians as Germans (while they usually do not feel Germans and did not declare themselves as such). As for Suwałki, I thought that it was claimed by Lithuanians rather than Germany ? A part of my family originates from Wielkopolska and they used to live there under German rule in the partition times. This makes me also able to somehow relate to the claims that there were no Poles in the territories east of Oder-Neisse. As for apologies, this already happened in 1965 when Polish Catholic bishops asked for German forgiveness. Under communist regime the Catholic Church was the only significant representation of the nation in Poland. This was of course immediately criticised by the regime. You can see the memorial (Image:Wroclaw-KardynalKominek.jpg), with the inscription "We forgive and we ask for forgiveness" in Wrocław. --Lysytalk 21:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Street names etc.

But Siemens could also have invested in the Czech Republic or Slovakia. And they did not invest in Lublin, but in Gleiwitz/Gliwice.

The best economic conditions for foreign investments are in Greater Poland, Masovia and Silesia. Lublin is not there. But face it, Siemens is only one of hundreds of similar investors. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. --Lysytalk 18:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I would like the pre-1933 names instituted in small font underneath the Polish names. So no AH-Strasse, but Ringstraße or Hauptstraße or Markstraße.

I agree that would be nice, but I'm afraid not possible in Wrocław for a number of reasons. I hope to see bilingual signs in the towns with significant German speaking minorities, though.

But you admit Breslau was built into the prosperous Medieval City it was by Germans, he?

Medieval City ? Germans ? You meant Czechs, I suppose ?

Litzmannstadt is a Nazi name for Lodz, not the German name.

So, are you among those, who believe that Germany was occupied by Nazis ?

The German name before 1939 was Lodsch, and that's how it's referred by still. Likewise the Masurian villages and their Rings of Expellees only use the pre-1938 names for their towns, not the Germanized ones 1938-1945. Note that. Of course all inhabitants at that time already were Germans, even those linguistically Slavic considered themselves Germans, which the ballot in 1920 decided for-good.

Yes, most Masurians identified themselves with Germany and many would probably enthusiastically confirm they were Germans (even if they were not in the ethnic sense). Masurian language was forbidden in public services already in 1939, but the names of about 50% of the towns in Masuria were changed to German names already in 1938. If Germany succeeded in WW2, probably the German names would be used till today. Germany, however lost, and the names of the towns are Polish. The Polish name-changing can be probably seen as a reaction to earlier German (or Nazi if you prefer) renaming paranoia.

The Sorbians have schools of their own. But the Poles in the Ruhr-area are often German Silesians of origin, otherwise they would not have been able to immigrate prior to 2004. They held German-passes for the German minority, that's the case, nothing else, even if Poland wants to consider them a Polish avant-garde.

Similarly members of German minority in Poland have Polish passes. Are you saying that they should be denied German schools in Poland because of this ? I'm not getting what do German or Polish passes have to do with education. As for the "German Silesians of origin", this was certainly often so, but many were Polish Silesians or from mixed marriages, that used their alleged German origin as an excuse to emigrate for economic reasons. Remember that otherwise they would not be allowed to settle in Germany. I'm not saying that everyone lied but the reality was not so black-and-white here.

While the Sorbians are a traditional minority, the Poles are not. If I as a Dutchman come to live in Lodz or Bialystok, I will have to learn Polish and send my children to a Polish school. I won't demand a Dutch school. There can be no comparison between the Sorbians and German Silesians and the one side, and that of Polish immigrants (often not even Polish historically) in the Ruhr-area. The Länder of Germany don't offer Turkish schools either. And justly so.

If there were 100 thousand Dutchmen in Lodz, I'm sure they would expect Dutch schools. The same for Poles or Turkish in Germany. I'm not sure why a "traditional" minority should be treated differently than the "modern" one.

In the provinces part of Germany in 1932, except for a small German-speaking originally Slavic minority in Masuria and a small Polish minority in Upper Silesia (coincidently in the Oppeln Bezirk), all of these provinces were 100 % German. I am not speaking about the German Empire (1871-1918)! In the Empire you had Kashubians, Polish (many, notably in the Province of Posen and around Katowice), French (Alsace-Lorraine) and a few Lithuanians (Memelland).

I like the "small German-speaking originally Slavic minority in Masuria" and "were 100% German". How did the remaining "German majority" get to Masuria then ? airborne ;-) ? No, until 19th century Masurians spoke Slavic language. In 1831 86% of them still spoke slavic language, then they were gradually Germanized. The same would happen to Poles if not for their national consciousness and resistance.

And mere forgiveness without regret and without contrition is useless. They would also allow and even accept and demand bilingual street signs in the pre-1937 German provinces (Pomerania, Danzig, Masuria, Silesia, except for Katowice). But they do not. Germans have bilingual street signs in all of the Oberlausitz! Even in towns where virtually no Sorbians live. Please take notice of that. But I am thankful towards the Roman Catholic Bishops of Poland for apologizing. But as we can see: there is no plaque written in German in Breslau, in Ostrow Tomski, where one can easily see all civilians' houses are German-built in modern, mid 20th century German style (sic!), even the church is totally in the style of those in the rest of Germany.

There are bilingual names e.g. in Kashubian areas in Poland. I hope they will also appear in German-minority areas (some already do, but still not in a mass-scale). I don't think there are many Germans in Wrocław however. I've recently stayed in a hotel there that seemed proud (sic!) that Adolf Hitler was a guest there (but also Marlene Dietrich). As for asking for forgiveness, doing this already acknowledges some guilt, would you agree ? Otherwise why would Poles ask for it ? Did Germans ask Poles for forgiveness or apologized for their crimes ? Or was it not Germans but again these mysterious Nazis who committed them ? --Lysytalk 18:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

While Breslau was Bohemian, it was already firmly ethnically German in the Middle Ages, at least after 1280. Masuria was only partly Slavic ánd Lutheran. Look, Wloclawek was partly German too, and Bromberg was 90 % too, like was Torún.

So you're telling me now that the Bohemian Breslau was in fact German because of its ethnically German population. But at the same time you are saying that the German Warmia and Masuria were German, despite their ethnically Slavic population ? It seems like you're twisting it a bit the way it suits you better, nicht war ?

At least I am happy you agree with me on the bilingual issue in Opole.

Personally, as I said, I'd be happy to see old German names in Wrocław as well, and I would certainly be proud of Poland then, but I'm afraid this is not possible neither now nor in the foreseeable future. In Opole region, I expect this will happen soon, similarly to Kashubia.

As to schools: Turks don't have Turkish schools or language classes in Germany either, neither in Holland or in the USA. Modern immigrants will have to assimilate, but traditional minorities have rights, cultural rights. That's the way it is. If you don't like that, complain in Brussels. We can't have people educating children in a foreign language as a small minority. You know of course, that 6 million Turks live in Germany presently, or not? Far fewer Poles.

US and their approach to the minorities is a completely different issue, as they have a different understanding of a nation. As for cultural rights of minorities, I'm all for it and I don't know why you got the impression that I did not like it (ans should complain to Brussels). What I don't like is no proper recognition for the modern minorities, like the Turks that you mention. If there are no language schools for them in Germany or Holland, I will blame German or Dutch government for that. I believe this is because there is nobody to stand for them, otherwise they would have been respected as everyone else deserves to be. Anyway, I think you are totally wrong when you think that German minority in Poland is being oppressed. In some areas they actually enjoy more privileges than ethnic minorities in other countries. Of course nothing is perfect, but things change for the better. --Lysytalk 19:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Substitionary guilt complex?

Thanks for your recent additions to the Serge and Beate Klarsfeld page, which I've subsequently edited for English syntax and grammar. One question regarding wording: "...[Beate] suffered from a substitionary [sic] guilt complex..." As far as I know, this latter term is unknown; does it originate in a foreign language? For now, I've edited out the unfamiliar adjective substitionary. Please check this further as you see fit. -- Deborahjay 20:56, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (untitled comment)

Monsieur sans nom, preuve de lacheté, pourquoi certifié contre Mgr Roux des mensonges... Moi j'étais présent pas vous Mgr Roux est Evêque de Mgr P.M Thuc. Ph. Riu (posted by User 193.249.237.229 03:03, 10 October 2006)

[edit] French Resistance

Interesting additions to French Resistance. Do you by any chance have any information about some of the resistance groups? - Skysmith 10:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mgr Jean-Gérard ROUX

Pourquoi ne pas croire, je vous conseille de relire:

à la suite de Saint Paul « nous travaillons avec beaucoup de peines de nos propres mains ; on nous maudit, et nous bénissons ; on nous persécute, et nous le souffrons ; on nous dit des injures, et nous répondons par des prières ; nous sommes regardés comme l’ordure du monde, rejetés de tous. » Et Mgr Roux dit toujours en plus: "Mais HEUREUX car cela est à cause de mon Amour pour Dieu et pour sa plus grande gloire ainsi que de mon Amour pour l’Eglise, ma Mère." Les ingrats et médisants qui oubliant l’aide que nous leur avons apportée nous démontrent que nous sommes dans le vrai. Ceux qui proclament que je n’ai pas été sacré par Feu Mgr THUC je leur dis un grand merci, ils m’aident dans mon élévation vers Dieu, par le chemin de la patience, du pardon et de l’amour. Je prie pour eux, car sans le savoir( j’espère), il font l’œuvre du Diable

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[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Hitler Berghof Portrait von Eva Braun gefilmt.JPG)

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[edit] Prague history reverts

Dear, Mr. Smith2006, I do apologize and I am sorry if my revert action at 15:08, 19 October 2006 of Prague article caused an atmosphere of greater conflict and stress or is considered to be personally targeted against you. While having good faith I just tried to make the article to be written with more neutral point of view. According to Talk:Prague many users are concerned that you may be giving too much prominence to a view that has indeed certain importance, but should be rather placed in articles such as Expulsion of Germans after World War II. Forgive me but your graphic, scaring and horrific descriptions are not very suitable for articles about general history of certain places. So replacing it by the link to "Expulsion" article should give enough justice to you and your cause. By the way I admire your great work at Wikipedia, especially your edits of history and religion articles. You are surely appreciated for your altruism in bringing deeper knowledge to wide public. Keep your work on and dont be afraid to discuss with us. Cheers! --Bluewind 12:32, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seven cities

So do I, but:

  • the information was questioned in the main article, where a tag for citation was applied right next to them (note: it is not questioned by Romanians, it is just, from what I know, not clear whether the early references to the cities included that precise list or another)
  • consider if the detailed information does not in fact belong there (a style concern: if we keep moving info from the main article to the Transylvania one, the main article will end up being useless). Dahn 20:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Btw, I have the common sense not to tell you to shut up as well. Are we clear? Dahn 20:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abraham Foxman

Please source your criticisms, or stop adding them, as per WP:BLP. This is a blocking offense. Jayjg (talk) 21:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another vandalism warning

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits, such as those you made to Francis Schuckardt, are considered vandalism. If you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you.

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Hans-Joachim Marseille.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Hans-Joachim Marseille.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image is unlicensed for use on Wikipedia and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

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[edit] Christianity in Northwest Africa

Hi Smith2006, sorry for reverting your contribution in that section. My reasons are: Unsufficient content: Its says not a lot about the history of the christianity in Northwest Africa. It does not show how christianity emerged there, and how the people approached it. Also it didn't say any thing about the contribution of the north africans.

The struggle between the Romans and the berbers was ignored.

I don't believe that the Moroccan christians suffers in morocco for their religion.

What you said about the some berbers converted to christianity during the colonization is doubtful.

If you insist you can re-revert it. Maybe, we will discuss it after some months. I left that section as last one, because i know it is difficult and i wanted to learn more before writing there about. Best regards; Read3r 14:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ludwig von Mises

Could you offer any sources to substantiate your addition at Ludwig von Mises? DickClarkMises 20:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:Padre Pio kissing the sacred ring.jpg

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[edit] Thessaloniki (name dispute)

Hello Smith2006. I was wondering if you could help here. Crvst 22:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

It seems he's just going around requesting help from random people. r9tgokunks 23:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit summaries

Hi Smith2006. I've noted that your edit summaries (Last warning. This is not a Muslim article. Criticism of Islamic influence is allowed., Next time I will inform the moderators and Readr3 may await blockation.) are not appropriate for usage inside Wikipedia. Please consider discussing freely at the article talk page and avoid threats. Happy New Year. Cheers -- Szvest - Wiki me up ® 23:42, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Image:Alfred Athanasius Seiwert Fleige Priest Bishop John Paul II.jpg

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Alfred Rosenberg Nazi Propagandist Antisemite.jpg

Warning sign This file may be deleted.

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[edit] Necedah Shrine

I have removed one of your sentences from the article, plus another one that I felt is marketing. I have started a discussion on the article's talk page. We need to discuss before re-inserting. Cheers! Royalbroil T : C 14:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Robert Ley2.jpg)

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[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:HausserPaulSS.jpg)

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[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Peiper Jochen or Joachim.jpg)

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[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:JochemPeiper.jpg)

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[edit] Personal attacks

Beware of personal attacks as you showed here [6]. If you will continue with personal attacks it will lead to your block from editing Wikipedia. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 10:22, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Strange what counts as personal attacks these days. I'd love to contact you but I can't. *wink* (str) 217.228.112.147 18:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:VW Käfer Um 1944 Ostpreußen.jpg)

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[edit] Hitler_ueber_Deutschland_1932.jpg

Copyright has expired; image is over 67 years old and published before 1964 (subject died in 1945 Heinrich Hoffmann (Munich), 1932

Sorry to be an a**hole (im not a copyright nazi) but I think this image may be both mislabeled and copyrighted. This image appears on the front cover of Ian Kershaw's Hitler Vol.II Penguin 2000. On the back cover copyright is indicated to be retained by Walter Frentz/Ullstein Bilderdienst. The image is also indicated to be cira 1942-43. I left a note on the Talk Page for Hitler asking about its origins and Fair use/'Copyright Expired' defense used for some of the other images. 82.29.229.254 16:04, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It is a shame you didnt see fit to discuss answers to the questions I raised at Hitler. I believe, although im no expert, that you are uploading copyright violating images and will begin to tag them accordingly so experts can assess claims of Fair Use. Wikipedia has already been the recipient of legal threats over Frentz images.
== Images listed for deletion ==

Some of your images or media files have been listed for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion if you are interested in preserving them.

Thank you. 82.29.229.254 19:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Please do not delete content from articles on Wikipedia, as you did to Image:Goebbels mit Hitler.jpg. It may be considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.
Please stop. If you continue to delete or blank page contents or templates from Wikipedia, as you did to Image:Hitler Blondi Berghof.jpg, you will be blocked.
This is your last warning. The next time you delete or blank page contents or templates from Wikipedia, as you did to Image:Hitler ueber Deutschland 1932.jpg, you will be blocked. 82.29.229.116 12:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religious views on masturbation

I reverted the changes you made because it is basically the opposite POV of the one stated there. Removing that POV and inserting your opposite view is not oppropriate. Also, the references that you gave are not good references. Opinion sites that don't offer any citations don't meet verifiability. Atom 00:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree here with Atom, and we don't agree on a regular basis. :D You need to come up with better cites and re-craft the section somehow to include the information in a way that does not appear contradictory. CyberAnth 00:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Removing a more liberal interpretation and replacing it with your more conservative interpretation is the issue. Your more conservative interpretation is allowe in the article, but you can't try to push that POV, only offer it as an alternbative POV in context with the other POV. Not everyone who is Catholic sees the issue the way you do, and overwriting their POV doesn't work. We have to find a way for you to express that there are a range of views, and the their view, and your view are within that spectrum. Atom 12:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Look, I've explained several times what the problem with your edits are. I don't appreciate you starting a fight and edit war over the issue when we could just discuss it. I've explained here, and at the article that removing another POV, and putting your own doesn't work. Also, the article already cites a solid reference with the viewpoint given. Trying to suggest that your POV is correct and anothr is not is precisely what is not allowed by the WIkipedia NPOV policy. If you want to talk about it, and how you can include your POV we can do that. In the mean time, I am trying to edit the article, and you are disrupting the article. I am not Catholic, and I could not care less whether either pespective is there personally, I would just like it to follow Wikipedia policiies. The biggest problem with your edit is that you add three pages of comments as part of the reference. The reference should be short and concise and point to citation, and nothing more. It is not a platform for expressing your opinion, it is only a citation. The article itself is where any content should go. That content has to be supported directly by the citation. Your comments are not directly from the citation.

If you could please discuss the issue, rather than disrupting the article, and my efforts to keep it a quality article, I would appreciate it. Atom 12:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Let's discuss on the talk page, cpme to agreement, and then make appropriate edits. The Catholic church, with over a billion membes does not have one view. Age old rivalries between diffrent factions, such as jesuits and benedictines are well known. The article avoids all of this as directly references the catechism. You have added a reference to Persona Humana, which is fine. But, please quote it, rather than offering your own interpretation. As I have asked, please discuss first, and then we can work out eording that expresses your POV within Wikipedia policies.

I am very unhappy that you continue to disrupt the article. I have gone to great lengths to explain to you what needs to change, and been very cooperative in editing to keep your view while presenting it properly per Wikipedia policy. If you want to work this out, you need to discuss it civilly in talk pages. Calling me a vandal because I am following policy properly is not civil, and not acceptable. I am going to change the article again. First I am going to describe, again, what the issues are so that I am doing my part in trying to communicate. I would hope that you could discuss the issue rather than disrupting the article again. Please see the talk page of the article for my explanation of the issues/problems. Atom 21:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


In a recent edit [Here] you comment "Mr Masturbator Atomaton may not like some statements and that Christianity has primacy in our west, but that is irrelevant." First, I consider your comments to be uncivil. Please see WP:CIV. You have an opportunity to participate in a meangingful way, and you should do so. My apologies if you do not like the ordering of the religions. This has been discussed since before you began having an interest in the article. Your opinion is as valuable as any other on the matter. We asked for other people to participate with an RFC. I am of the opinion that ordering historically, since the article discusses historical views on the topic, makes more sense. Apparently you feel slighted that Christianity came after Judaism. I don't see what popularity of a religion has to do with how religions have historically viewed, or currently view the topic of masturbation. Also, although Christianity may be more predominant in the West, Wikipedia is Internet based. Given that, Christiantiy, with a little over a billion participants in a world with 6.5 Billion people is hardly predominant. It may very well be the most popular of the religions though. But, as I said, I am more interested in that historically many views on the topic developed from preceeding culture. In this case, Judaism and Taoism as well as Islam preceeded Christianity historically. Surely it seems apparent that some of the views of Christianity came from the religion it was derived from, Judaism? As the old testament is a sub-set of the hebrew bible that preceded Christianty by a few thousand years, and both of them, as well as Islam are Abrahamic religions it makes sense to me. Indeed, more information in the article about how those views developed would throughout history would improve the article. Atom 12:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)



[edit] Suspected Copyright Violations #1

Iron Cross Charlemagne Division Officer.jpg Image appears here [7]. Copyright reserved notice appears as All content Copyright © 2002 - 2004 axis101.com on homepage.

French_uniform_emblem.jpg Image appears here [8]. Copyright reserved notice appears as All content Copyright © 2002 - 2004 axis101.com on homepage.

You applied a FairUse rationale to the first image stating: "Rationale: Illustratory of the role of the Division in Western Pomerania, necessary. Probably not even copyrighted, but still unsure. Definitely not claimed by someone."

Setting aside your claim of FairUse on image 1 for the moment, you claim a PD-self on image 2. Did you actually create it yourself? Please confirm the copyright status of both images promptly. 82.29.229.116 14:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Both Copyright Violations now confirmed by author of axis101.bizland.com making the claims of ownership and claims of the image not being copyrighted blatant lies. Now listed as copyvios. 82.29.229.116 15:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
FYI raised this problem at Copyright Problems board82.29.229.116 20:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images listed for deletion

Some of your images or media files have been listed for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion if you are interested in preserving them.

  • Image:French uniform emblem.jpg

Thank you. 82.29.229.116 15:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC) 82.29.229.116 15:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suspected Copyright Violations #2

Please respond on the talkpage of the article so you can explain the rationale and tags. 82.29.229.116 16:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nazi Party

I have reverted your move and placed the article back at Nazi Party. Your move was in violation of clear consensus established at Talk:Nazi Party and in violation of Wikipedia:Naming conventions: "Generally, article naming should prefer what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature." You are welcome to try proposing a new move on the talk page, but I doubt there will be much support for that. In any case, please do not move the page again without consensus. — coelacan talk — 05:18, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adolf Hitler's religious beliefs and Heinz Hürten

Please stop engaging in controversial edits without discussion on the page. Input was solicited on the talk page, but you did not join in the discussion. Please discuss the issues there to prevent edit warring. I reverted Gio's unilateral edits, and I will do the same with yours. Please come to the talk page and build consensus. The suicide claim was removed per WP:OR and strong opposition from all but one commenting editor. The Catholic Church claims had a mixed response, so I formed a compromise edit. If you strongly object to the edit, please discuss it instead trying to force your version of the text. Thank you. Be well! Vassyana 09:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] dogans, RC's. & Catholics...

Hang in there, Smith! almost all of us Catholics are open minded,& nice in debate.

the "dogans" seem to have a lot of tiem on their hands to trash talk... cheers

Opuscalgary 23:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Josef Goebbels.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Josef Goebbels.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. When you use a boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Hitler Rommel discussion Generals.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Hitler Rommel discussion Generals.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

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[edit] German WWII images

Hi. I got a very long message on my talk page about your image uploads. There do seem to be some problems. We really need verifiable copyright holder information for any image republished here, and it doesn't look like we have it for these images. Further, the image description page for some of them seems to be suggesting that copyright has expired, which is a quite remarkable claim, given that they were only produced sixty years ago, ten years after their creator would have had to have died for copyright expiration in the United States or in Europe. Also, they seem to lack proper Wikipedia:Fair use rationales. I'd rather not delete them all without at least having a conversation with you about it, but I'm afraid that we cannot be lax about copyright issues. If you could respond and let me know if you are going to be able to meet the requirements of Wikipedia:Fair use criteria with these images, or if I should begin deleting them, that would be helpful. Jkelly 02:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Thuc le frechou.JPG

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Thuc le frechou.JPG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. Please go to its page for more information if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Garion96 (talk) 10:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The same counts for Image:Thuc celebrating Pontifical Mass 1982.jpeg and Image:Thuc Carmona Zamora.jpg. Garion96 (talk) 10:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mass and edit warring

Warning

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you.-Andrew c 21:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

The duration of the block is 24 hours. Here are the reverts in question. Nishkid64 20:51, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:AH_Raeder_Kriegsmarine.jpg

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[edit] Image tagging for Image:Berlin_Reichskanzlei_Interieur.jpg

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 06:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Condor_Legion_Parade.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Condor_Legion_Parade.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 07:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Hans-Joachim_Marseille2.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Hans-Joachim_Marseille2.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 08:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Heinrich_Himmler_Murderer.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Heinrich_Himmler_Murderer.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 08:37, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

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