Talk:Sludge metal

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I'm not too sure about that Melvins statement I just made, but I've heard from others that they're an early sludge band or something. - Dysfunktion 00:36, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, it could be argued that they have been somewhat influential on the genre. But I don't think Boris, Isis and Sleep really fit here. Boris and Isis are too "artsy" to be considered sludge; Sleep are arguably plain stoner metal. I'm getting doubts about Mastodon too, now that I think about it. Maybe I'm just too nitpicky, though. --Rueckk 20:50, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Rueckk, Mastodon may be has some influences but sure is not an sludge band.

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 October 2005. The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

[edit] We need a complete overhaul of the Sludge Metal section.

I'll just go along discrediting a long list of "Sludge Metal" bands to get the ball rolling. You must be aware that when the term Sludge is used it is used as a NOUN not a ADJECTIVE. Otherwise anything with a Sludgey Down-Tuned Guitar Tone should get put in.

Down;

They sound basically like Black Sabbath apart from other general Metal influence. More shockingly there is no hardcore influence at all. The only thing that springs to mind that could maybe make them Sludge is suggesting the vocals make it Sludge. However that assumption is highly basic. Mainly for the fact when he screams they resemble Black Metal vocals more so of which it is very apparent Phil was/is a fan of at the time of recording the first album.

Corrosion Of Conformity;

They are basically Black Sabbath with Southern Touches.. and maybe sometimes a little Thrash influence. But never Hardcore.

Beaten Back To Pure, Alabama Thunderpussy;

Where is the hardcore? It's just purely Southern Metal

Electric Wizard;

It amuses me they where cited as a Sludge Metal band. Let Us Prey I would argee on however it is all pure Black Sabbath tribute.

Baroness;

Melodic Death Metal and Crust Punk.. = Sludge???

Boris;

Black Sabbath and MC5, yes. Hardcore? No. The only example I can find of any music they have been involved in with hardcore influence was on one of their recent LP’s and even then it was pure Crust Punk and so irrelevant.

Also a lot of bands who are basically Celtic Frost rip-offs somehow find themselves under the Sludge banner (eg. Coffins and Lair Of The Minotaur). These should be clearly removed. Also the claim of Southern Sludgecore being an actual genre is ludicrous, a scene does not become a sound. Cause something like Dixie Witch sounds so much alike too Buzzov*en.

Things which should be kept in the list as being real Sludge Metal bands; Acid Bath, Black Flag (Should be pointed out to be proto as Melvins where), Bongzilla, Brainoil, Buzzoven, Cable, Cavity, Melvins, Charger, Crowbar, EyeHateGod, Iron Monkey, Laudanum, Mistress, Soilent Green, Rwake, Weedeater. You are welcome to make additions.

Also, the whole creation of the Atmospheric Sludge Metal is wishful thinking. This whole school of bands who ripped off Neurosis and Godflesh are not Metal atall. Or if so are because they only show slight influence from this scene (Burst, Buried Inside). To be begin we need to first need to all accept that both founding artists came from “Core” backgrounds and arrived at their sound without influence from Metal. Before claims of “Guitar Tone” get posted you should be aware and hopefully accept the fact that “Heavy” music exists and sometimes it isn’t actually Metal. They have cited their influences many times infact never implying any Metal let alone Doom but rather experimental music and industrial. Lately post-rock has become a even more prominent part of this school of post-hardcore bands. Not alone that but the big players in the school of bands who did infact rip them off also had core backgrounds.

Cult Of Luna’s previous incarnation was a hardcore band.

Isis used to be hardcore and their songwriter runs a hardcore label.

Neurosis used to be hardcore.

Callisto fashion themselves as hardcore and infact share a lyrical theme of Christianity which is very prominent in a number of hardcore bands.

Buried Inside call themselves a hardcore band.

Pelican members (apart from one) were all involved in “core”.

If people are happy with the statements made and agree with my thoughts I would be happy to re-write the Sludge Metal page comprehensively.

--Lysergix 13:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] in agreement with the "overhaul"

The first part of this article seems to venture too far off topic for my liking. A lot of the information has absolutely no bearing on musical/structural content and focus's on subjective semantics (ie. labels, genres.) There are also no references to factual information (such as release dates.) The whole thing needs to be reworked and cleaned up so that it remains objective. If others are interested in a collaborative effort, i would be willing to assist. Other suggestions are welcome.

Cryptomnesiac 02:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I have a real sense these people got caught along in the whole Southern Lord/Hydra-Head wave of followers and have become “experts” at this themselves.Again I have to really solicit my feelings towards "Atmospheric Sludge Metal" being totally vacant. If you consider this term has only recently coined with the new school of bands appearing from the very late 90’s and early 00’s which musically infact grew totally separate from what they would refer to as Traditional Sludge Metal (or even metal atall), It is like saying a banana fell from the apple tree. Sure they might both be fruit but they are hardly the same

Also may I quote, “but sludge metal generally avoids the positive outlook on life that is common in stoner metal, and is usually far more atmospheric.” What Trad Sludge Metal bands do you know who are atmospheric? And letting a guitar feedback for 8 minutes doesn’t count as atmosphere.

I would be willing to participate in a collaborative effort, aslong as it was agreed that the artists mentioned should be removed along with some others. The whole bunch of Celtic Frost/Neurosis/Godflesh rip-off bands. Having this article the way it is will only inspire ignorance. And a bunch of kids to thinking Isis is sludge metal or even metal!

You can contact me via MSN/E-Mail from the address shown on my page.

--Lysergix 14:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tired Of Waiting

If no more discussion has taken place by the 31st of March 2007 I shall begin re-writing this page to my own accord.

Also for those so called Atmospheric Sludge Bands I will begin a Post-Core page.

--Lysergix 00:20, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your decision and support you, but to me it seems the prevailing term is "post-metal" as opposed to "post-core" Dysfunktion 19:28, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh ofcourse. However is it not alittle wrong to allow these Hardcore bands to be viewed as Metal by the public?

--Lysergix 09:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

it's way too pussy to be either, does it really matter? :P Dysfunktion 17:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

why are grief, noothgrush, and dystopia only barely mentioned? and where the fuck is damad? how is corrupted not a traditional sludge band, were they not one of the originators?