User talk:SlimVirgin/archive5

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[edit] ADL Anti-Defamation League

Why are you deleting critical links of the ADL by white nationalists groups? Since the ADL focuses a substantial part of its web site criticizing white nationalists, why shouldn't we hear the white nationalists view point on the ADL?

You specifically deleted these links

These links also have critical articles and quotes about the ADL by Jews, not just white nationalists. Your personal biases and emotional attachment to judaism is not allowing for fair and balanced spectrum of view points on the ADL

[edit] Mitchell Bard

Hello Slim, you asked my opinion of Mitchell Bard. I can't say I know him in depth; to me he is just another untrustworthy professional lobbiest. He has spent a large part of his adult life writing for advocacy groups like AIPAC. Nothing wrong with that, but he's an advocate and not a scholar. There's a very big difference. In this case it is obvious from [1] that his purpose is deception as there is barely a paragraph with a distortion or misrepresentation of some kind. Mostly it consists of a litany of tired old "quotations" that were collected (and in some cases invented) by the Israeli goverment in the 1950s and 1960s. I'd be extremely surprised if he looked at any of them himself. There are also simple errors: "The last census was taken in 1945." (Nope, the last one was in 1931.) His presentation of the 472,000 was a blatant lie. I could go on... --Zero 10:49, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't go as far as "blatant lie". The number was true and correct; the way he presented it was quite misleading. Jayjg | (Talk) 16:29, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image tag

Thanks for uploading Image:ErnestGellner3.gif. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GFDL, or {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much, BrokenSegue 00:22, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Could you also take a look at Image:The temple of the Slim Virgin.jpg. It also needs to be tagged. BrokenSegue 21:17, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Some mutual backslapping

Thank you for complimenting my article on Hrafnkels saga. I love yours on Bernard Williams and I see you really got to jump through hoops in the FAC process ;) -- Haukurth 13:08, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] LaRouche arbitration

You and Snowspinner recently requested arbitration regarding the LaRouche series, which has been granted. A temporary injunction has been put in place. Will you be making some sort of case? I don't see anybody adding evidence or proposing a remedy, and I am not sure who is responsible for moving this matter forward. Cheers, -Willmcw 05:57, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

hello, i noticed the above arbitration and am wondering if i should join in your arbitration with HK and WeedHarper, given that i have had disputes with them but only with regards to Michael Danby (which isn't directly a "LaRouch" article). do you think i should involve myself? Xtra 06:59, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

i dont believe my experienses are sufficient enough to involve myself. adam would have been far more appropriate. Xtra 05:22, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kant

Looks much better! icut4u

A comical aside, being a non-native English speaker, I used to get quite the reaction whenever I'd pronunce Kant's name correctly. Hilarities ensued! :p El_C 02:30, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Quote

Hi I've bumped on your user page and read first sentence:Imagine a world in which every person has free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing. That is simply great - have you wrote it or it is a quote. I'll have to use it :) --Obradović Goran (talk 00:34, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

<shame>I'm obviously not visiting donations page very often :( </shame> But what can I say, I'm just a poor student (exuses, exuses..)! --Obradović Goran (talk 00:42, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Division of labor

Since I have found (and de-LaRouched) several articles that had LaRouche theories and websites promoted would it be logical for me to use a thousand words (or less!) to cover that topic? In other words, if you have "promotion" material that you are having trouble squeezing into your thousand, I can handle the brief. Is there a deadline? (PS, do you know exactly when the "August 2004" ban on LaRouche promotion in unrelated articles came into effect? I presume that he/she/they are blameless for LaRouche promotion before that.) I'm genuinely surprised and disappointed that users HK and WH may have been acting fraudulently. They always seemed like different people. This editing task has been hard enough without being intentionally manipulated. But other than those reactions there's nothing I can contribute on that topic. You did a fantastic job of compiling information. Whew. Has anyone proposed a longterm remedy yet? If this is all from one person then I suppose that makes a solution simpler. Cheers, -Willmcw 09:03, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've found perhaps 16 instances, some of them cases of directly copying material. I might revise it down to a dozen citations so as to only show the worst. Is the format roughly correct? I'll add a couple of paragraphs describing the editing problems with the list of edits. I hadn't realized that copying from LaRouche sites was so prevalent, and it looks as if others hadn't noticed either. -Willmcw 07:06, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Regarding the latest LaRouche arbitration. I'm not sure that this connection between HK and user:64.30.208.48 has been documented. See: [2] and [3] Since it has been clearly established that the anon IP is Weed Harper (by his own admission), the description by HK of the edits by user:64.30.208.48 as his own is a another link between HK and WH.
PS - Another WH email address: george0fthejungle@hotmail.com

[edit] Jewish ethnocentrism

Hi again! I'm back to annoy and harass you. With respect to your VfD, the lack of criticism of MacDonald (and what, according to some, his ideas lead towards) is something that Leon Rappoport takes issue with in his book review of:

  • Falk, Avner. A psychoanalytic history of the Jews (Associated University Presses, 1996). In Idea, Vol.4, no.1, January 17, 1999, he writes:

Recent work by MacDonald (1998) for instance, suggests that traditional Jewish ethnocentrism --- belief in their moral and intellectual superiority --- is an important source of anti-Semitism. It would have been helpful, however, if Falk had seen fit to address the problem of victim-blaming.

  • Note also Vered Kraus and Yuval Yonay's (Department of Sociology, University of Haifa) "The power and limits of ethnonationalism: Palestinians and Eastern Jews in Israel, 1974-1991," The British Journal of Sociology, Vol. 51, Issue 3, September 2000. MacDonald and his thesis are not mentioned, but "Jewish ethnocentrism" is.
  • Similarly, Baruch Kimmerling in his "Israel at the Crossroads: Religion, Nationalism, and Democracy in Israel," Constellations, Volume 6 Issue 3, September 1999, writes:

Tamarin showed the creation of radical Jewish ethnocentrism among the youth, due,he felt, to uncritical study of the Bible and to special projects...

One might argue that the belief in the value of Talmud for non-Jews is merely an expression of Jewish ethnocentrism.

So the word is used, you're right, not often, but still, I think, notably enough (note that my findings are based on a very cursory search though). Anyway, hope this proves useful in your work to improve and find a suitable direction for the article.

Ethnoperipherally yours,

El_C 09:43, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I only wish I had better access to Israeli scholarship. At any rate, it's a given that you should not hesitat to consult me on this – I am at your disposal.
Best Regards,
El_C

[edit] As requested

  • I already noted at the VfD, Samy Smooha (Univ. of Haifa) "Jewish and Arab Ethnocentrism in Israel." Ethnic and Racial Studies, 10, 1 (January 1987): 1-26. Reprinted in Hofman, John (ed.). Arab-Jewish Relations in Israel. (Wyndham Hall Press, Bristol, Ind., 1988) pp. 175-216. Full article is available in PDF at http://soc.haifa.ac.il/~s.smooha/publications.php (ctrl F. it)
  • Ifat Maoz (Hebrew University) and Donald G. Ellis (University of Hartford) "Going to Ground: Argument in Israeli-Jewish and Palestinian Encounter Groups" Research on Language and Social InteractionVol. 34, No. 4, 2001, Pages 399-419.

Israeli–Jewish attitudes have evolved, but issues of identity and ethnicity remain ... social and communicative features of ethnocentrism are ...

  • Y. Teichman, H. Zafrir, "Images Held by Jewish and Arab Children in Israel of People Representing their Own and the Other," Journal of Cross-Cultural Psychology 34: 2003, pp. 658-676.

Ethnocentrism: Theories of conflict, ethnic attitudes and group behavior [category] ... Stereotypes of Israeli sixth grade Jewish and Arab children and their expression...

  • Lisa M. Brown, et al. (Department of Psychology, University of Florida) "Ingroup romantic preferences among Jewish and non-Jewish White undergraduates," International Journal of Intercultural Relations, 27 (2003) 335–354 (PDF)

Ingroup preferences are related to ethnocentrism

  • Ramzi Suleiman, "Planned Encounters Between Jewish and Palestinian Israelis: A Social-Psychological Perspective," Journal of Social Issues Volume 60 Issue 2, June 2004, pp. 323 -

the intergroup contact are characterized by an increase in ethnocentrism and in which the group under pressure from the Jewish participants settles into...

  • Erika Falk, "Jewish Laws of Speech: Toward Multicultural Rhetoric," Howard Journal of Communication, Volume 10, No, 1, February 1, 1999, pp. 15-28.

One reason for this omission, besides ethnocentrism, is that few communication scholars are familiar with Jewish rhetoric, and even among those who are [not so related for our pruposes, but I thought it noteworthy]

  • Daphna Canetti-Nisim, Ami Pedahzur, "Contributory Factors to Political Xenophobia in a Multi-cultural Society: The Case of Israel" Vol.27, No.3, pp. 307-333.
  • I. Maoz, et al., "Learning about 'good enough' through 'bad enough': A story of a planned dialogue between Israeli Jews and Palestinians," Human Relations 57, 2004, pp. 1075-1101.

theory to inter-group workshops involving Palestinian and Jewish youth. Causes and consequences of deligitimization: Models of conflict and ethnocentrism...

  • Ruth Firer (Director of Peace Education projects The Harry Truman Institute for the Advancement of Peace The Hebrew University of Jerusalem), "Preventive Remedy: Tolerence Education, the Israeli Textbooks," inter-disciplinary.net.

new definition of the discourse created in a society, which defies ethnocentrism...

  • Amith Ben-David and Pnina Biderman (University of Haifa), "East Meets West: A View from Soviet Student Newcomers to Israeli Society", International Journal of Group Tensions, 27 (2), Summer 1997, pp. 99-108.

...their ideological makeup is one of refugees rather than Jewish immigrants as an explanation for the development of prejudice and ethnocentrism, which is...

  • Shifra Sagy, et al., "Individualism and Collectivism in Israeli Society: Comparing Religious and Secular High-School Students," Human Relations, 52 (3), March 1 1999, pp. 327-348.

the peace process, however, may have generated a trend toward a weaker ethnocentrism...

  • Melford E. Spiro, "The Moral Postulates of Kibbutz Culture," (chapter nine of his Studies in Cultural Analysis', ISBN 0887384145 ? ).

The ethnocentrism of kibbutzniks is expressed, moreover, in their insistence that Jews return to physical labor and that they strike roots in the soil.

  • Oren Yiftachel (Ben Gurion University of the Negev) ,"Nation Building or Ethnic Fragmentation? Frontier Settlement and Collective Identities in Israel," Lewis Center for Regional Policy Studies, Working Paper #17, 1996.

Their attitudes towards Arab-Jewish relations ... show parallel strands of liberalism, ethnocentrism and indifference to the surrounding human landscape.

Gah, and I can keep going even with such grossly inadequate access to the pertinent scholarship. All the best, El_C 03:18, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Assume Good Faith

Much as you did, huh? --Tagishsimon (talk)

I was more referring to the vandalism charge (and I apologise for screwing up when posting the image link). And, err, so, yes, I do assume that a) you were acting in good faith and b) I am several orders of magnitude more terse than I might be. --Tagishsimon (talk)

[edit] Return visit

Hi, thanks for your message. I know what you mean about editing the philosophy pages; I've been mostly avoiding them, to be honest — it's much easier to do grammar/spelling/style/Wiki-housekeeping on articles about things you know little or nothing about. Also, as a philosopher, it's much more difficult to keep what Wikipedians call original research (in other words, thought) out of what I write about philosophy. Once I'm more familiar with the whole system, though, I'll probably shift slowly into the philosophical material (and probably spark off revert wars, etc., no matter how careful I am not to). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 00:03, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ah, well I'm a dualist, so I'd replace "brains" with "minds"... Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:17, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Stalking

I don't think correcting three articles over two days counts as stalking or harassment. Please see his talk page for my explanation, and don't take my use of Guardianista to heart. Jacquerie27 18:58, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bigotry

Thanks. I try to take a middle path on most things, but having been a Jewish kid in a liberal family in the American South in the '50s and '60s, and then in Germany in the mid-60s, I have a couple of areas where my tolerance is low. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 08:25, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Archives

You said: "The Post-invasion Iraq archives were very mixed up and material seemed to be missing." If I did that, I don't know how. Maurreen 07:01, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Slim.
  1. Sometimes freak doubling occurs.
  2. I'm from Missouri (among other places). So if I've made any problems, show me.
  3. I've taken the page off my watchlist. Maurreen 20:28, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Amazon.com

Links to Amazon tend to fall under the category of commercial links; I convert them to general ISBN links when possible, because people forget that Amazon isn't the only bookseller on the Web. Also, using the plain ISBN number keeps people from creating affiliate links and attempting to sneak some profit from Wikipedia. —tregoweth 07:10, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

I'm just extracting the ISBN from the Amazon URL that is given; I'm not changing or removing any publication information. Links to a specific edition at Amazon will now go to the ISBN of that specific edition on the Special:Booksellers page. Also, that page reads "Wikipedia does not endorse any bookseller listed here above any other"; linking specifically to Amazon implies an endorsement over other booksellers. —tregoweth 07:29, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)
I understand your point, but I'm not choosing a specific book edition myself; I'm just taking the ISBN of the edition that the original contributor specified. If someone linked to a paperback version of the third edition, the ISBN in the Amazon URL will refer to that edition. Also, I'm not against commercial links per se, but I don't think Wikipedia should favor one seller of an item when there are at least thousands of others. —tregoweth 17:44, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence request on Larouche

On Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche Part Deux/Proposed decision, User:AndyL said: "Weed, you and Herschel have not only shared the same computers (home and office it seems) but have edited each others comments on talk pages which suggests the same person with different logins and perhaps being confused about who he has logged in as at what time." I asked him for the actual edits, he said you would have them. Unless I missed them in the mountain of already-presented evidence, they would be helpful to add if you have them. Thanks :-) - David Gerard 01:31, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's probably not critical, but if you do find them they'd be nice - David Gerard 02:14, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] IRC

If you'd like an IRC cloak please visit m:IRC_channel_cloaks for basic instructions; follow these and contact me on #wikipedia if you're done or if you have any questions. -Fennec (はさばくのきつね) 17:31, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adminship

Would you like to be nominated for adminship? I think you would make a good one. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 21:08, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User name

Nah. I was just passing the page in another context and was amused by how valiantly your POV had been pushed. You guys have done a fantastic job. Still, most of those who hold the opposite POV have gotten themselves banned! More fool them. If they really cared about the outcome, they should have been smarter. -- Zen

[edit] Conscious evolution

Thanks for letting me know. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:35, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dresden

I am not controlling the edits. I have not reverted your edits, I have edited them. In most cases I have tried to answer the questions which you have posted in line and to clarify one or two points. The biggest change I did was re-inserting the Attack which is the kernel of the article. It must have been accidently deleted it. When doing it I removed the italics on the strafing quote to fall in with the standard you are using even though I disagree with them.

Something I have wanted to do for a long time, was chop the Oxford quote up a bit and move to it to the justified section because the second half was repeated in other words already in the justified section. As you chopped it, I moved it. It was inserted in that form to placate Get-back-world-respect back in Nov 2004 see Talk:Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II/Archive_3

We have a footnote on the References because it was too much to be included in the References but it needed saying.

The use of Friedrich was to replace a weasel worded sentence which started "Some have suggested that the bombing of Dresden may have been a war crime". I am not so sure that this was a good idea given the controversy arond him (His article was not written then, and as a German he was not well read in England) perhaps we should use R.J. Rummel instead, but he is careful to say that it would be a war crime using today's laws not the laws in 1945 so he is not a good spokesperson for the "Some have suggested that the bombing of Dresden may have been a war crime" brigade.

Please tell me, for example: why do you want the photograph to straddle the intro and the first section? It doesn't matter, but it looks ugly, and yet you revert efforts to correct it.

The first section in VERY controversial see Talk:Bombing of Dresden in World War II/Archive 4#Straw poll so it is best left alone unless you want to run another straw poll. I happen to think it clearer like that and the photo fits neatly into the gap to the right of the Table of Contents.

Also, you don't seem to have the dates of the bombing right. I may be wrong, of course, but I believe the first bombers took off at 6 pm on Feb 13.

Yes probably but they bombed on Feb 14. To exaggerate the point the day ARA General Belgrano was sunk is normally given the day she was sunk not as the days between the HMS Conqueror leaving and returning to port. The original plan had been for the American to bomb on the 13th but they did not. I've just noticed someone changed the days into nights in the intro (quite recently) sigh!.

BTW "it was to hamper the evacuation" of refugees not the troops.

Hope this helps. Philip Baird Shearer 21:51, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

  1. I had no idea that this month was the 60th anniversary of the bombing. [4]
  2. It may be a bit confusing discussing the editing process for Bombing of Dresden on THREE different user talk pages in addition to the article's own talk page.
  3. My sympathies to all. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 17:48, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Utilitarianism and Kant

You might be interested in this short critique of Kant's and Bentham's philosophical views:

-- Uncle Ed (talk) 19:50, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] editor

Please look at the talk page for BoDresden you editor seems to break certain characters. including "š" so that the links to Talk:Jšrg Friedrich are now broken. Philip Baird Shearer 09:51, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cryptic comment

Please explain what you ment @ Talk:Transhumanism#Citation_requested. Cheers, (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 12:58, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Who blocked User:Dnagod indefinately, and on what basis? (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 14:15, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
My reply is @ User_talk:Sam_Spade#Dnagod. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 14:33, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The proof is in the pudding

Re: Talk:Transhumanism#Dnagod, I think your comment about your education is yet another instance of making things about peopler, ather than about facts and arguments. I've studied logic my entire life, but even if we were both professors it wouldn't change anything in regards to the need to explain the obvious to one another. I assume your well meaning, but IMO you have blinders up about these particulars. Frankly I'm concerned that a lack of rigour and attention to wiki policy is resulting in an increase of intellectual dishonesty on the wikipedia. When verifiable POVs are excluded, you not only remove my reason for being here (pursuit of NPOV knowledge), but you reduce the value of the information available to us all. Knowledge is power, and censorship, no matter how well meaning, corrodes that power. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 22:32, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the edit count link. I have 18999 editsm and I believe this will make 19,000! Hoorah! (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 00:08, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish ethnocentrism

While I disagree with the article as it stood, the term itself is in circulation and hence deserves an explanation. Redirect to this guy's book does the job. We have articles about nasty things, misconceptions, snake oil, etc.; hey, even about blood libel. This one is of the ilk. Mikkalai 06:34, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

MacDonald's use of the term is not representative with its use in the critical scholarship. The redirect, if there was to be one at least, should have went to Ethnocentrism. Both myself and MIRV voted for that as an interim solution. On the basis of what consesnsus was it redirected instead to Culture of Critique? El_C 08:04, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
If Jewish ethnocentrism term is used in "critical scholarhip", then where is the article, please? If you provide your "correct" description of the notion, then a disambiguation is due. See also Talk:Culture of Critique. Mikkalai 09:14, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
What "article" ? Please review Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Jewish ethnocentrism, at any rate. The VfD has been concluded, propper undeletion procedure is what seemingly is due in this case. El_C 10:30, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Abuse of admin powers by Mikkalai

Well, I suggest you start down the required steps for submitting an RFAr. I guess that means you have to try mediation first. Noel (talk) 19:58, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No, there is no special process for dealing with admins.
As to what happened, it's very simple: I saw the request to do something, I checked and verified that the article had been VfD'd properly (since I know nothing of the article, or the previous debate), and I then blanked and protected it. Mikkalai then used admin powers to unprotect it, and then edited it to restore the content he had just put there.
You don't need any special power to re-create a deleted article, anyone can do that. That's why I blanked/protected it, instead of just deleting it again. Noel (talk) 20:08, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Sure, no problem. Noel (talk) 21:24, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Ah, why are you giving me a hard time on WP:AN? Is there an error in my statement that Admins don't have any power, technical or in policy, to discipline other admins (except in cases of 3RR violation).? If that is accurate, what do you expect us to do? Noel (talk) 22:24, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've protected the "deleted" version of the article. As an admin, Mikklai can circumvent that but he hasn't. If he either unprotects the article or edits it while protected he would be open to accusations of abusing his powers as an admin and could be subject to a complaint at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment#Use_of_administrator_privileges. I suspect he's not going to cross that line but if he does an RFC would be the first step to take. AndyL 21:39, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

He did unprotect the article after I protected it. See the protection log. Noel (talk) 22:24, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hm, I guess Noel and I both did the same thing independently. AndyL 21:40, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

When I go to Jewish ethnocentrism I don't see any redirection, just the "no article" notice. I've noticed a bit of a time lag on some articles, perhaps your account isn't properly updating and you're still seeing what was there before (convesely, perhaps mine isn't properly updating). AndyL 21:54, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for alerting me. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:56, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think there's a software glitch. Checking [5] shows that Mikkalai has not edited the article since Noel and/or myself blanked and protected it a few hours ago. If you're still seeing a redirected version it's because of a software glitch meaning the version you see from your account hasn't been upadted yet (don't know why my account has updated it for me but I don't understand the software ;). Perhaps if you log off your ISP then log back in it'll fix it (or maybe try from another browser). AndyL 22:00, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There's also this magic spell to clear the caches on all the Wikipedia servers (in case one of them has an old copy). (Also, he did recreate the contents after I blanked it.) Noel (talk) 22:24, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ok, he hasn't since I reprotected it at 20:09, FWIW. AndyL 22:30, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've also noticed in a few other articles I've edited today that when I look at the articles again it looks like my edits didn't take but in fact they have which is why I think there's some sort of updating problem. AndyL 22:01, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)


On Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents you wrote "I feel incredibly disheartened by this incident, and the lack of response to it". Well, there was a response by a number of people, for instance I deleted the re-creation once and tried to dialog with Mikkalai. He seems to have withdrawn his attempts for now, but of course it's up to you to decide if you want to pursue anything formally. -- Curps 23:50, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)


Admins have been temporarily blocked in the past, for violations of 3RR for instance, but while blocked I believe they can still do admin stuff, they just can't edit articles (apparently that's a feature and not a bug of the software). However, there was one case where an admin lost admin status as a result of arbitration (Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Cantus vs. Guanaco, Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Guanaco).

It's not that other admins refuse to act against other admins out of courtesy or perceived privilege, it's just that as far as I know we don't really have any clearly defined policies for abuse by admins (how to define it, how to deal with it). Maybe it just hasn't happened often enough. There was some discussion about that lack a while ago, I don't have a link to it, but I seem to recall User:RickK participating actively in it, perhaps you should contact him to see if anything came out of it.

I did what I thought I could do: try to prevent the page recreation and try to persuade Mikkalai to withdraw his attempts. As far as blocking or banning him, I didn't know if it's technically possible to do so, and didn't know if I had solid grounds to do so, with the lack of any clear policy. Perhaps other admins felt similarly.

I don't know if Mikkalai is a rogue admin or he just had a bad day; he doesn't seem to have any RfCs or RfArbs involving him. My personal impression is that he's been a steady contributor, and his actions today were not the norm. Nevertheless, you do have the option of pursuing RfArb, perhaps as a test case that put the need for clearer policy on the agenda (again maybe RickK might have some thoughts).

I hope you don't get discouraged from participating in Wikipedia. The admins don't constitute an old boys' network (or girls) who look down on non-admins and refuse to act against other admins. There are wide divergences of opinion among admins and even some open animosities between some as far as I can tell.

So anyway, take some time to collect your thoughts and then decide what you wish to do and whether or how you wish to pursue it. It's up to you at this point. -- Curps 02:11, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Admin chastisement process

Good luck with putting something together. The only thing I ask is that you not put admins in charge of it, for a long list of reasons. For one thing, the admins have a lot to deal with already, and don't need another job. Second, it's not always clear where the line is - as you can see from WP:AN/I, we often disagree on whether something is right, and I'd rather not see another source of disputation. Third, it's probably better to have an independent group, so you don't get any backscratching going on. Noel (talk) 17:54, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template

I listed it on TFD because it is, as I said, hideous (i.e. large and unwieldy) and superfluous (the same function could easily be accomplished by a simple list somewhere). Feel free to vote to keep it. — Dan | Talk 03:27, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Downsides of being Spacedout

I will have an update in ~3 hours. I am almost guranteed to be given stronger medications, so I will be spacedout real soon. Hilarities aside, what concerns me as virtually inevitable is that certain editors are going to exploit this vulnerability. Of course, if this whole thing ends up being a matter of a week or so, I can probably recover from such damage. If, though, it will be more, I suppose I will have more pressing issues to consider than my contributions to an online encyclopedia. By the way, I gave a facelift to the conclusion of the Bernard Williams article you authored. Did you notice? (I'm just looking for a pat on the back here, erm, with greatest humility as always, that is!) Though, I take some issues with some of final statements. Perhaps one day we'll have a collegial polemic over it – it won't accomplish much, but at least we'll be less fond of each other afterwards! All over the placely yours, El_C 14:07, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I am pleased to inform you that, once the procedure –relatively minor, thankfuly– is carried out (Friday), I'll be fine and totally back to normal in a week or two (barring any complications). Thanks for your concern. I'm quite fucked up now, though (can I say fucked up on this tv channel?).
All the best, El_C 07:31, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comments vs. pages

If you have comments about an article, could you please use the discussion page rather than posting your views to the main page? Thanks! Alba 04:47, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. It did seem a little out of character. Alba 04:50, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Log compiling in regards to Jewish ethnocentralism

For your reference, I have compilied the logs together at: Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Jewish_ethnocentrism/Logs. I can understand where Mikkalai is coming from, but I can also understand where everyone else is coming from. I am uncertain and unclear where policy stands in this regard, therefore I am not involving myself other than providing the evidence. -- AllyUnion (talk) 16:00, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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