Image talk:Slavic languages.jpg

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The last map, Image:Slavic.jpg, at least spelled "Serbo-Croatian" properly, this one lowercases the "c" in "Croatian". And people wonder why the Croatians get offended by this term. D'oh! --Joy [shallot] 08:24, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sorry for the mistake. No offense was intended. I will post a revision shortly. Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 03:00, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Could you please correct the other listed mistakes too? Boraczek 09:53, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm currently on it. The new version will show a more accurate distribution for some languages. But it will still ignore the distribution of languages in places where they are spoken as a second language or by a minority of people. Otherwise, the map would be impossible to design, graphically speaking. I will save a layered version of the map for future modifications or translations. Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 17:21, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. Please don't forget that (as national censuses show) Slovak is spoken by a majority of people in some parts of Vojvodina and so are Polish and Russian in some parts of Lithuania, so it would be good to show that in the map. Boraczek 20:31, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I don't have any graphical reference to illustrate those facts on the map, but I'll be glad to alter the map if I can get specific data about the regions. Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 23:40, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The areas of Vojvodina where Slovak language is notable are too small to be shown on a map of this ratio (as are all other languages of Vojvodina except Serbian and Magyar). --Joy [shallot]
It's obvious that we can't show precisely where Slovak is spoken, but I'd draw two small stripes anyway, just to mark the presence of the Slovak language in Vojvodina (see the map below). Boraczek 11:09, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
That's not really consistent with what you're doing with Kashubian etc. --Joy [shallot] 10:35, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Texted moved from the article to discussion section

Mistakes in this map
So as to warn the visitors and show the way to improve the map:

  1. Missspellings: "Bulgarien" instead of "Bulgarian" and "Serbo-croatian" instead of "Serbo-Croatian";
  2. The presence of Polish-speaking people in Lithuania and Belarus is ignored;
  3. The presence of Russian-speaking people in Lthuania and Latvia is ignored;
  4. Ignores the majority of Albanian-speaking people in Albania and parts of R. of Macedonia
  5. Ignores the Slavic speakers in Transnistria (part of Moldova)
  6. Kashubian is not spoken in north eastern Poland and never was;
  7. Polabian is extinct and it was never spoken in Czechia;
  8. Rusyn is spoken not only in Ukraine, but also in Slovakia (and in Poland, but in Poland Rusyns are dispersed around the country due to the resettlements);
  9. Eastern Ukraine and a big part of Belarus speak Russian reather than Belarusian and Ukrainian;
  10. The map ignores the presence of Slovak-speaking people in Vojvodina and Romania;
  11. The map ignores the presence of Croatian-speaking people in Austria.

So with the new version, you have:

  1. Misssssspelings ;-) are now corrected.
  2. Polish is not spoken by a majority of people in Lithuania and Belarus.
  3. Russian is spoken by a majority mainly in a few of Latvia's major cities.
  4. Albanian is NOT a slavic language.
Which is why you should not color those areas as "Serbo-Croatian". D'oh! --Joy [shallot]
  1. In Moldova, people speak mainly Romanian, which is not a slavic language, even if in some regions, Ukrainian is spoken by a large number of people.
Yes, but in Transnistria the Slavic speakers are in a majority. Granted, it's a narrow strip of land, but still. I noticed that you applied the partial coloring there, but it went a bit too far to the west, Dniester is the other river closer to the border. --Joy [shallot]
  1. Kashubian WAS spoken in Pomerania, in the north of Poland, but presence of it East of the Vistula river has been removed on the map.
  2. Polabian, though extinct, was spoken in germany AND in Northwest of Czechia, along the Elbe river from which it got its name in the Czech language. A better location of the language (when spoken) appears on the new map.
  3. Distribution of Rusyn on the map reflects the location where it is believed to be spoken by a majority.
  4. Map has been modified to reflect large number of Russian-speaking people in Belarus and Urkaine.
You're still missing the Russian-speakers on Crimea. --Joy [shallot]
  1. Only for graphical convenience, the map will still ignore the presence of most Slavic Languages in most of the countries around the world (such as in North America or Western Europe), where they are spoken by a minority.
Err, the number of Sorbs is comparable to the number of Gradišće Croats, I just looked it up. I see no reason to include one and not the other. --Joy [shallot] 10:41, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I also removed the border between Serbia and Montenegro. Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 23:40, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! The map is much better now. I'd like to suggest some further improvements. I'm attaching a map to show where some omitted languages are spoken.

Ad. 2
I marked the areas in Lithuania where Polish or Russian is spoken as a native language by a majority of inhabitants (more than 80% in some municipalities). Source: Census 2001 (http://www.std.lt/web/main.php?parent=504).

I don't have any precise data regarding Belarus. Well, Belarus is not a democratic country, where you can freely express your national identity. But in some areas the Polish language prevails (in fact, my grandfather came from such an area in Belarus, so I have some family connections with that region). I tried to mark the Polish-speaking areas in the map (based on: Geograficzny atlas swiata, PPWK, 2nd edition, Warszawa-Wroclaw 1991). This is only a rough approximation though.

Ad. 6
It's all right now.

Ad. 7
Actually, it was not. It was spoken more to the north. Your source probably mistook Sorbian for Polabian. I marked the area where Polabian was spoken in the 9th century (based on: Atlas historyczny swiata, PPWK, Warszawa-Wroclaw 1986). See also: Polabian.

Ad. 9
The Crimea is Russian-speaking rather than Ukrainian-speaking. See also: Crimea.

Ad. 10
Slovak is spoken by a majority in some parts of Vojvodina and it is one of the official languages of Vojvodina, so maybe you find it worth representing in the map. I marked the area where the Slovak ethnic group dominates. Source: Census 2002 (http://www.statserb.sr.gov.yu/Ter/epop.htm). See also: Vojvodina.

Image:ForRobin.jpg

Best regards. Boraczek 10:22, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for taking my suggestions into consideration, Robin! Boraczek 10:38, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Belarus

  • Belarusian is spelled with "a" (not Belorusian)
  • Podlasie voivodship of Poland has a lot of Belarusian native speakers. In some areas, such as Hajnówka, they make up to 75% of population (This is a very important fact that has to be shown on the map).
  • The majority of rural population of Eastern Belarus speaks a dialect named "Trasianka", which is a mixture of Russian and Belarusian. In adjacent regions of Russia, populated by ethnic Belarusians (officially they are considered Russian), rural population also speaks this language, although it is closer to Russian. It is the same story in the region adjacent to Northern Belarus (Sebež)
  • In nothern part of Chernihiv Oblast of Ukraine rural people speak Belarusian
  • Most people in the cities of Belarus speak Russian.
  • In (Polesia), people speak Palessie dialect, which is a transition between Belarusian and Ukrainian. It is sometimes (rarely) classified as a separate language.

Juras14 05:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blind map

Is there a blind version of this map, ie. one without the English text, possibly on commons:? I'd like to translate it to Slovenian ... --romanm (talk) 15:43, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Colour blind friendly map?

Good job on the map, I just want to suggest if the colours could be changed to make it easier on those who are colour blind. In particular, the shades of green are very hard to differentiate. Leftist 19:06, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What time frame ?

Which time is the map supposed to represent? The map shows extinct languages, as well as recent borders. Königsberg/Kaliningrad Oblast became Russian in 1945. In Eastern Germany, there are large areas striped green, even though currently only the small Sorb minority lives there, and not many more in recent centuries.--Matthead 17:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Corrections

Here is another few points, Belorussian should be replaced by Belarusian, Russian should dominate Crimea and eastern Ukraine, and also should be intermixed in Southern Ukraine. Belarusian should move into the Bialystok area of Poland and Ukrainain into the Southeastern corner and into Slovakia as well. Moreover Slovak should not be intermixed with Ukrainian in Transcarpathia but only slight.--Kuban Cossack 16:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some issues with the map

Marking the Slavic language (Greece) (striped blue area south of the Republic of Macedonia) as Macedonian is POV — it's not officially considered Macedonian and the speakers are claimed by Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia alike. They self-declare as Greeks, so please don't negate their right to self-determination. A solution may be to mark it both in blue and purple, to mark it in a separate colour of its own, or just leave it like that, since data about number of speakers is scarce and they're certainly a lot less than the 41,017 in 1951.

Also, consider adding the large Bulgarian minority in Moldova (65,072, 2% of total population; last census excl. Transnistria) and southern Ukraine (204,600, 21% in Odessa Oblast; last census) (Bessarabian Bulgarians) and possibly the Pomak (Muslim Bulgarian) minority in Greek Thrace (30,000; 1981 estimate).

Thanks in advance! Todor→Bozhinov 10:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should be prodded

I don't think the map is salvageable from POV. It reflects neither the official languages nor the languages spoken in reality accurately. It professes to illustrate "distribution of Slavic languages", but does not specify where: even Europe is not represented in full, leaving alone other parts of the world. Specific issues include:

  • Russian is the official and only spoken language in Transnistria,
  • Russian is an official language of Belarus (all the country should be shown as bilingual, Polish streaks in the west should go),
  • Ukrainian is not spoken in the Crimea at all (not the last time I visited it);
  • all the Eastern part of Ukraine and such oblasts as Odessa are bilingual; Ukrainian speech is heard only rarely in Kiev. --Ghirla -трёп- 18:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Be careful not to conflate the "official" language of a region with what is actually spoken there; the former raises more POV issues than the latter. The map should clearly indicate whether it represents official policy or actual usage. If it represents actual usage, then it needs to indicate what criteria is used for identifying a certain region with a given language. That is, what is the threshold (in % of speakers, presumably) under which a language should not be marked on the map? —Psychonaut 19:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Currently, the map represents neither the official language (e.g., Russian in Belarus) nor the actual situation (ditto). Slavic languages are official in some Asian countries (Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan) - there's nothing about that as well. --Ghirla -трёп- 08:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegro boundary

You know, the border between Serbia and Montenegro is not drawn correctly. It's moved a little bit southwards, so that it seems from the map now that some parts of Montenegro (Pljevlja, Bijelo Polje) are actually in Serbia. :) --Djordje D. Bozovic 14:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

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