Talk:Siouxsie & the Banshees

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Triple J "J Files" article on S&tB

Stormie 03:51, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Contents 1 singles table 2 Racism 3 Sid Vicious 4 Similar artists, etc. section 5 Can Someone Find The Reference To Back Up This Fact? 6 Pronounciation? 7 Too Limiting? 8 Bandname / Origin 9 Musical Genre 10 Quote. 11 Dead link

[edit] singles table

Xinger: DO NOT change this singles table back to your template. Again, your template has problems with it - not just with me, but with several members of this community (your own Talk Page documents these discussions, which you choose to ignore, as well as the Foo Fighters vote page).

• The Banshees are British, and you have placed the UK singles chart column last in your table. It's also the chart in which most of their songs have had success.
• You continue to use the "#" symbol, which looks sloppy.
• The singles table now looks completely different from the albums table, which looks sloppy.
• Columns are varying widths - sloppy.
• Your template has question marks, for pete's sake.
  

If you want to add Modern Rock Tracks information to their chart history, why not just add your column to the already-existing table? You're being ridiculous. And I would bet that you'll ignore this request to stop just like you have all the others (not just from me) and you'll revert my changes anyway. -- eo 15:51, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Racism

does anyone know if Siouxsie was racist? I know the swatsika was shock value, but what about the song hong kong garden? it has a LOT of anti-chinese sentiment invested in it. look at the lyrics of the song and tell me you dont detect anything wrong with it.

Here are one set of the lyrics that I found on the internet, but I'm not sure if they are right, they look like somebody may have transcribed them from listening to the record with a few mishearings. I always heard the first line as "Prawn ball elements in the air..." Anyway, these certainly do look rather dodgy... I always thought the song was just about her local Chinese take away restaurant...

Harmful elements in the air

Symbols crashing everywhere

Reap the fields of rice and reeds

While the population

Junk floats on polluted water

An old custom to sell your daughter

Would you like number 23

Leave your yen on the counter please

Hong Kong garden

Tourists swarm to see your face

Confuscious has a puzzling grace

Disoriented you enter in

Unleashing scent of wild jasmine

Slanted eyes meet a new sunrise

A race of bodies small in size

Chicken Chow Mein and Chop Suey

Hong Kong garden takeaway

Hong Kong garden

BTW, Siouxsie also infamously sang "Too many Jews for my liking" on the original version of "Love in a Void", although changed the words by the time the song was officially released (my friend has a bootleg of the original demo version with this lyric intact) quercus robur 10:35, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I will say those lyrics are a bit more suspect that I would have thought, but I think I would mostly disagree that she was a racist in regards to the Chinese. Which lines in particular strike you? To me, the "slanted eyes" may be the most obvious, but in 1978 was that a big deal? As for racism in regards to Judaism, I think her/their recording of "Israel" ought to stand as some sort of defense. Folkor 19:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

This is all very interesting, but what exactly is the point? Is it going to be placed into the article somewhere? It seems rather speculative to me. -- eo 19:51, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree, I don't think it makes sense to write something in the article about it. I mean, we are merely speculating, and anyone can do that, just as anyone can look at her lyrics and the band's choices of songs and make a decision. I find no need to write something in.Folkor 08:32, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Its probably relevant in that there was alot of questions raised around whether Siouxsie was rascist and/or anti-semitic in their early years, in particular by Julie Burchill who reviewed their first album in the NME in 1978, and who made much of the 'too many Jews' line. It would be appropriate for this to be included in the article, but I can't rmeber that much more about it... I know it was quite a big deal at the time though... quercus robur 09:39, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Well if a source or a quote or an external link can be added to the page which refers to the NME article and the questions that were raised at the time then that should be added, but I don't think its encyclopedic to just say something like "Siouxsie could possibly be racist..." etc. etc. without a journalistic source. Perhaps there is also a response to Burchill's review by Siouxsie herself? -- eo 17:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

We could insert it to the Banshees or Siouxsies page to add to the nazi patch and racist accusations, im sure this fueled some of it. I was wondering if any of you knew. Itts not just the slanted eyes lyric. She seems to be pointing out all the faults, and is rather negative about it all. I dont believe she was a racist, I think there is certainly something behind this though.

Siouxsie is definitely NOT racist. Read the biography on Siouxsie & The Banshees and you will see. Siouxsie wrote the Hong Kong Garden to complain about the insults the staff members of her local take-away had to suffer, and about the racism rising which worried her. The lyrics are supposed to be taken as someone else saying the things, and Siouxsie actually that way wants to bring pointless racism into attention. The lyrics are definitely no racist outing and are meant as an anti-racism song (although I agree you have to know the story behind it, otherwise it seems dodgy). The song Israel and the usage of the Star of David was also written for anti-racism purposes, as the band was tired of hearing that there was a racist touch to their music, so they wrote a Christmas song instead and came up with a song about the Holy Land. So definitely Siouxsie is very anti-racist and the lyrics that seem otherwise have to be seen as shock value and not to be taken literarly.

Siouxsie and the Banshees also used a collage by Anti-Nazi John Heartfield on the cover of the single "Mittageisen"/"Love In A Void". It should be remembered that it was the latter song which originally featured the line "...too many Jews for my liking..." - a relic of their shock tactic past - but which was suitably amended for commercial release. Siouxsie and the band were stating their position concerning accusations of Nazi sympathies in a typical manner.LessHeard vanU 22:55, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sid Vicious

John Ritchie (only later known as "Sid Vicious") played drums at the 100 Club gig; Severin has been the bassist since inception. Ritchie was learning to play bass when with The Flowers of Romance and was recruited to the Pistols, on the basis of his look, when Matlock left.LessHeard vanU 20:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Similar artists, etc. section

I have to say I don't like the similar artists and list of influences. I'm not sure if those lists belong on this page, as they are quite subjective and sometimes seemingly unfounded. Siouxsie and the Banshees are similar to Placebo? I like both, but that seems a stretch. And Depeche Mode? Again, another band I like, but they focused so thoroughly on their synthesizers. I really don't think the lists should be there. Is there precedent for such lists on other good band pages? Folkor 04:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The "similar artist" is far too subjective, and the points you made about DM and Placebo are right (IMO). Since it doesn't mention the Yeah Yeah Yeah's or Altered Images it could hardly be called comprehensive, either. 10 out of 10 for enthusiasm, but... The "influences" are reasonable, but I think they are/should be mentioned within the article; indicating in what manner they influenced the band. Do you wish to wield the axe?LessHeard vanU 21:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that The Beatles are not mentioned as an influence, on a band that recorded two of their songs - having a hit single with one of them. I'm sorry, those sections will have to go - but I will be nice in the edit text.LessHeard vanU 21:32, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The reason why I added some the bands on the list of similar artists wasn't because their music was similar nessesarly but I found that a lot of fans of The Banshees also were attracted to bands with a similar look or infulences which is why added bands like Placebo and Suede who are both very theatrical and glam based. I'm sorry for adding those contributions, thinking back they're in poor taste.

[edit] Can Someone Find The Reference To Back Up This Fact?

Bold text I've been wondering for a while the accuracy of Siouxsie and the Banshees selling nearly 50 million records. I think Siouxsie and the Banshees are a amazing band but I just have a hard time believing that with their cult status that they've sold that much. Can someone support this?

I've asked at one of the fan sites. If there is any good reference (and more accurate figure) I will put it in.LessHeard vanU 21:55, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't look good. The record company has been asked several times, and has never given a definative answer.LessHeard vanU 12:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually remember reading a long time ago thta they sold 10-15 million which I think is more reasonable then 50.

This is just pure wrong. This was added right after the same number was (correctly) attributed to the Cure on their wikipedia entry. I love the Banshees to death but they have not sold the same number of albums as the Cure, not even close. If you go to www.riaa.com you can see the shipping sales information for all artists in America. The Cure have several platinum (1,000,000) and gold (500,000) certifications while the Banshees have none, though that could change in the future with Superstition or Peepshow eventually achieving gold status. For the sake of accuracy I removed the entry.

skellington77

[edit] Pronounciation?

Could someone add the pronounciation of "Siouxsie" to the page? I'm sure there's a lot of people including myself who have no idea how to say that. --Scott 22:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Take a look here. --Oxygene123 20:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too Limiting?

I love Siouxsie and the Banshees, I love everyone of their albums and releases and I feel that for a band as good as they are, labels like "goth" or "post punk" or even "punk" and "alternative" are against what the band is all about. They hate labels and feel that they've carved out their own path in rock so I would like to change all the labels in their discography and on th main page to just rock.

I wouldn't suggest doing that. Yes, the band rejects labels and their sound spans many different sub-genres, but that's the point: they've touched upon all the genres listed in the infobox throughout their history. Regardles of what the band members want, the public does place labels and descriptions onto them and for the sake of this being an accurate encyclopedia, I think all the descriptions should be there, in order for readers to follow those links and read the articles about the different musical genres. If anything, I'd say add to them, not substract. "Rock" is way too broad. -- eo 18:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

They're also quite influential in those particular genres. Anyways, in the authorized biography they actually own up to their influence on goth. WesleyDodds 10:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

You could also comment on their influence on, for example, fashion - but it doesn't make them into clothes designers. However, I do agree with eo that the catagories are those that have been assigned by critics, fans and the industry. As a tool for getting results from typical search parameters then it is essential they stay within the article - and the more (as long as they are relevant) the merrier.LessHeard vanU 11:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bandname / Origin

The article states that "The band got their name from Edgar Allan Poe's Cry of the Banshee" .

AFAIK no story called "Cry of the Banshee" by Edgar Allan Poe exists. There is, however, a horror movie of that name that is supposedly based loosely on Poe's "The Murders in the Rue Morgue". Can someone clarify this plz ? 81.210.189.211 00:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Musical Genre

I'll modify the piece of text that says they're a punk/post-punk band, an that they also encompass goth and alternative... I think it should say that they're mainly a Post-Punk/Goth band AND that they also encompassed punk and alternative (although I think alternative is a stupid label, and there's no need in using it, but I'll keep it). The Banshees are one of the three main gothic rock bands, and it's like saying that Blondie is a punk band, which also encompassed New Wave. Siouxsie started as a Punk band, but I think they became post-punk/gothic very quickly. Even in first albums like "The Scream" you can't say they were strictly punk rock. If anyone thinks different, comment here, I'm open to different opinions, and I might be wrong. Phibrizoq 23:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quote.

I have removed the following quote from the article:

"She described it as "high camp, not death camp.""

This quote was not spoken by Siouxsie, but rather a reporter in the Guardian Weekend from January 14, 1995. [1]

[edit] Dead link

"A poor-quality recording of the concert is available at http://www.untiedundone.com/"

Apparently their first show is no longer available here. The setlist is still there though. 195.24.16.69 01:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)