Talk:Sioux

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The "media" section that links to videos needs to be formatted. I don't know enough about that extensive formatting, but it's obvious something needs to be done. Billy Shears 01:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] the three Sioux

I made an addition to the summary at the beginning, because the three branches of the Sioux are very important distinctions among the Sioux people (I am, for example: Oglala=Lakota =Teton=Sioux). The branches or divisions are at the same time geographic, linguistic, and social, and interchangeable as to usage meaning. It is proper to use any of the three division names (Dakota, Nakota, Lakota) and mean "Sioux", or to mean those divisions among the Sioux (confusing, I know, but it's the linguistic tradition--each tribe uses its own to mean itself and all, if that explains it any better). I have used Oceti Sakowan (you will also see it written Ocheti Shakowan to demonstrate pronunciation) but that is a Lakota term. The advantage of the term Sioux (I was taught it was from the Chippewa, if that is the same as Ottawa?) is that it is an all-encompassing term for the language group as a people--a sort of a neutral term, if you will--and many Sioux prefer it because it has a positive connotation, despite its origins. Other edits I have made have attempted to logically follow or explain. Buckboard 09:00, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

== Sioux vs Lakota == i hate you lobosco love, bobbo

If Lakota is a sub-division of Sioux, must the lead paragraph say that the Sioux are also known as Lakota? If (as I suspect) Sioux and Lakota are sometimes errorneously used interchangeably, shouldnt we refrain from perpetuating that mistake? --Ezeu 17:20, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] actual Lakota pronunciation of Oceti Sakowin?

I usually make an effort to replace adhoc guides with IPA when I remove them, but the one given on this page for "Oceti Sakowin" ("Oh-SHAY-tee SHAW-ko-ween") was so meaningless that I didn't know where to begin. "oh", "ko" and "shay" seem to represent dipthongs, but the page on the Lakota language doesn't say anything about dipthongs. Can anyone with a knowledge of Lakota phonetics tell me, in IPA, how "Oceti Sakowin" is actually pronounced? --Krsont 19:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

I am working on an entry for the Nodaway River which according to some accounts evolved from the name Nadouessioux. The explanation here of foreign tongues sounds believeable but it runs counter to almost everything out there. Please post some sort of attribution! Thank you.

Americasroof 18:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] a decent book for yankton overview

though a bit outdated its still a decent read as it was work with actually native author

the yankton sioux by herbert t. hoover


written in the late 80's with heavy native american church its still a decent over view of how it was and is life of my people . and its still easy to locate in most public libaries


wicsa wambdi

[edit] Is Sioux European?

I've been led to believe that the term Sioux was a European term for the Dakota and etc. Is this true? Disinclination 16:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It's an English word, and it's not what these people call themselves. The received opinion is that it derives from a name used for the Sioux by their neighbors.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 19:49, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure we can infer that the French got to give them this spelling, in any case. In addition, I've heard that not only is it not their word, but that it actually means (in one language or another) something akin to "enemy" — someone knowledgable ought to point out in the article whichever one is true. — Lenoxus 02:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
The article itself gives the etymology:
The name "Sioux" is an abbreviated form of Nadouessioux borrowed into French Canadian from Nadoüessioüak from the early Ottawa exonym: na•towe•ssiwak "Sioux". The Proto-Algonquian form *nātowēwa meaning "Northern Iroquoian" has reflexes in several daughter languages that refer to a small rattlesnake (massasauga, Sistrurus). This information was interpreted by some that the Ottawa borrowing was an insult. However, this proto-Algonquian term most likely is ultimately derived from a form *-ātowē meaning simply "speak foreign language", which was later extended in meaning in some Algonquian languages to refer to the massasauga. Thus, contrary to many accounts, the Ottawa word na•towe•ssiwak never equated the Sioux with snakes.
--Miskwito 22:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Man, how in the world did I miss that? Thanks...--Lenoxus 19:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removing scalps

Did the Sioux(and other tribes) actually take the scalps off the heads of all their victims or did they just do that to the europeans? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.67.50.189 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 5 October 2006(UTC).

According the the article on Scalping, the practice existed long before Europeans arrived. --Ezeu 23:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
My understanding has always been that many, if not most, had a practice of counting coup in battle. This could be as simple as touching an enemy and escaping without harm. When the French and British were dancing around each other along what would later be the US-Canadian border area the French posted a bounty on any British but only required the scalp to prove the death. This idea was transferred to other tribes and replaced, to some extent, the prior practice of counting coup. I have NO cite for any of this, just talking from what I remember from school and such many years ago. --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 03:34, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Edit Reduces Readability

It looks like todays anon editor pasted a huge, mostly unformatted block from another source into the page. I also have NO idea why he added >.< to the start of the second paragraph. I have no pony in this race, being Cherokee myself, but I gotta say the page looks like crap. --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 01:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't edit it. Just remove it. It's very likely copied from somewhere, but we don't know where. It's probably a copyvio.—Nat Krause(Talk!) 01:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Umm.. I am fairly new here. I have seen copyvio mentioned before, but am not sure of the accepted practice for making an edit based on it. Wikipedia, I have noticed, has many specific procedures that have developed for handling certin situations, and I am just too new to do this comfortably. --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 03:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

If you have reason to think the new stuff is rubbish, then delete it (explaining why in the edit comment). If you think it is sensible content, but lifted from somewhere, then it has to be re-written into your own words. The ideas and info are not copyright, only the particular wording used. Unfortunately that can amount to a lot of work, so it may just have to be deleted entirely if no one is available to work it into the article. It can't stay if it is work belonging to someone who has not donated it to wiki/public domain. Sandpiper 15:57, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, don't worry about it, I took care of it myself. I think I also found the source it was lifted from. Welcome to Wikipedia!—Nat Krause(Talk!) 06:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

'Sioux' is a French word, and as such it is pronounced [sju]. The article gives the pronunciation [su], which I thought was a blunder due to English's 'u' being pronounced [ju]. User Miskwito reverted my edit, saying "that is not how it is pronounced". I checked my English/French dictionary, and indeed, it gives [sju] in French and [su] in English. Now, that is so far the most weird pronounciation I have ever encountered. I could have accepted [saiuks], [siauks], but [su]?!? Just like 'sous', 'sou' or 'soûl'? You English speakers are a strange lot. Could anyone shed some light as to how the word came to have such a bizarre pronunciation?

However it may be, I for one will stick to [sju] or else [dakota]...

Pseudo account 11:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

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