Talk:Sinterklaas

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Celebration of Sinterklaas is the celebration of his name day, which was the day of Nicolas' death!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.161.252.154 (talk) 08:51, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Partial view

"The children, up to an age of usually seven or eight years, almost religiously believe in Sinterklaas. They think that he actually lives forever and that he comes from Spain, that he knows everything about the children and that his Zwarte Pieten do come down through chimneys. The period between his arrival and December 5 is therefore very exciting."

This seems not non neutral pov to me and assumptious. I did not believe in Santa Claus when I was young and I doubt all children believe in Sinterklaas. Genjix 11:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The wording doesn't imply all children believe — just that it is typical for them to do so. Research shows that about two-thirds of Dutch families celebrate Sinterklaas.--MWAK 08:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] david sedaris

there has to be at least a link to David Sedaris´story - "Six to Eight Black Men", which comically looks at these traditions from an American perspective. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by John.i.buckeye (talk • contribs) 14:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Original

Why is there no mention of the Original St Nicolas. His Birthdate and the day he passed away. And that he was the Bishop of Myra (Turkey), but we (the Dutch and Belgians) heard of him through the Spainish who occupied us and so we naturally assumed he must have been from Spain. And that he was very a giving man (especially to the poor), that's why he gives presents on his birthday instead of recieving them. And we always eat pepernoten when we cellebrate Sinterklaas, which look like horse droppings, coz besides gifts that's what people found when Sinterklaas had paid a visit.

St. Nicholas: http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38

Pepernoten: http://www.directrecipes.com/archives/dec/02_Dec_97_Pepernoten.html

http://images.google.nl/images?&num=10&hl=nl&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-19,GGLD:en&btnG=Google+zoeken&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_qdr=all&as_dt=i&as_rights=&safe=images&sa=N&tab=wi&q=pepernoten —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Whatsit (talk • contribs) 21:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC).

So change it, instead of adding a POV marker. I am removing the POV tag. Improve the article instead of giving it a POV tag. --Daniel575 | (talk) 00:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] review

This article has a template saying it contains unverified claims / lacks resources.

I have tried to review this article, and as an inhabitant of the netherlands i'll try to spot anything which seems doubtful or wrong.

[edit] overview

  • In the Netherlands, Sint Nicolaas, Sinterklaas' eve is the occasion for gift-giving. *:Doubtful statement. Birthdays are tradtional coccasions to give presents. Sinterklaas is an occasion to give presents, but only under certain conditions. A better intro would be: In the Netherlands, Sint Nicolaas, Sinterklaas' eve is a folklore party evening, or something like it.
    • Well, that IS the essential of this folklore: giving presents to eachother. So the wording is correct.
      • I concur. The Bishop of Myra is holy because he gave gifts to the poor children. In this (commercialised) tradition, Sinterklaas comes to the children on Sinterklaas eve to give them presents (if they've been good, but the latter doesn't apply so much nowadays.)

[edit] Sinterklaas

  • called Amerigo or Slechtweervandaag (Badweathertoday)
    The name Amerigo is mentioned on several websites. Slechtweervandaag is also mentioned on one website as his donkey, other, mainly Belgian websites, mention it as his horse.

About the name of the donkey/horse of Sinterklaas, I've seen the series and yes in Belgium it's quite commonly known a Slechtweervandaag. Tough I think the name is slowly decreasing in usage. As no new shows in Belgium were made ever since (with a decent influence, I can't recall any) and a lot of kids watched Dutch shows. So names like Amerigo are also used over here. There's no real name tough, just names from tv shows wich are used and later slowly fade away. Also I always tough it was horse, a type called a schimmel. It's a grey horse with white spots. I know Slechtweervandaag and Amerigo were.

Slechtweervandaag was the name of his horse in a Belgian TV show back in 92/93. It remained that way in the minds of people since... (Anonymous - 04:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Coming from Spain

About the fact that he comes form Spain is because, I believe (will check it later), that however he lived in Turkey, he was later buried in Rome Italy. Than because of the Spanish influence people started to be mistaken about this. And Spain became quickly Sint Niklaas' home.

I have always been taught people tell he's from Spain because back in the day people's knowledge of geography was quite limited. As people were uneducated, the most distant country (from the Netherlands) beyond France was Spain. DWizzy 11:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Missing: origins

[edit] 'Zwarte piet

  • colourful Moorish dresses, dating back two centuries.
    The Moorish is doubtful. Using the dutch language wiki as a source, there are several possible origins of Zwarte Piet: a) captured devil b) Italian chimneysweeper c) Moorish helper d) black slave boy bought into freedom by sinterklaas
    The same sentence doesnt make clear what dates back two centuries: the black piet or his dress. The Dutch wiki calls it early 17th century looking cloths. That's not 2 centuries. I am not an expert in clothes, so I dare not estimate.
  • his origins were in the devil figure
    see above.
  • Traditionally Saint Nicholas only had one helper, whose name varied wildly. "Piet(er)" the name in use now can be traced back to a book from 1891
    According to http://www.kinderboekenwereld.nl/pages/specials/sinterklaas-van-a-tot-z.php Black Pete appears in Sinterklaas boeken from the middle of the 19th century. The book "`St. Nicolaas Geschenk voor Neerlands Jeugd´(1800)" doesnt mention Black Pete. The book mentioned there with the first mention of Black eter is by Schenkman, ca. 1845. The same site mentions the 1891 book as the first book where the name "Zwarte piet" is mentioned, I have added this as a reference.

[edit] Arrival

Missing: his arrival is broadcasted on telly.

[edit] Shoe

  • Missing: origins.
  • Children are also told that in the worst case they would be put in the gunny sack should be moved to black pete paragraph.

[edit] Pakjesavond

  • Missing: the packaging of presents as surprise
  • It's not just a family affair, it's also celebrated at sport-clubs, etc.
  • Typical presents include .... Just minor presnts, mainly sweets, are mentioned here. Many families use it as an occasion to give larger presents, comparible with birthday presents.
  • The sentence But the presents may be too big or too man can not be well unerstood from the previous part, as only small presents are mentioned in the preceding paragraph.

TeunSpaans 17:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


Not sure about 'packages' as translation of 'pakjes'. Don't you think 'presents' would be more suitable?  Rosalien  14:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Christmas?

In the text it says that the Christmas gift-giving is a bigger occasion than Sinterklaas gift-giving, but it's not. On the contrary, The santa claus is given hardly any attention.

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