Talk:Sinixt

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Contents 1 Who were the Sinixt? 2 Questions 3 Citation 4 Sinixt language needed 5 Colville re Okanagan Nation Alliance

[edit] Who were the Sinixt?

This article is poorly written--what the heck are "Sinixt"? Are they Indians, rabbits, tumbleweeds, or what? All the article states is that they were "inhabitants" who were declared "extinct". Very confusingly written. Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 23:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

The Sinixt or "Lakes" were a Salishan-speaking people allied with the Ktunaxa who were declared extinct in Canada after the smallpox and otherwise depopulated, but a few survivors remain in the United States. Their territory was the Kootenay and Arrow Lakes of BC (Nelson-Castlegar-Nakusp area).Skookum1 07:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Sinixt were not, to my knowledge "Allied with the Ktunaxa". The Ktunaxa arrived in the Arrow Lakes region of BC from the plains, and were permitted to stay by the Sinixt, who already occupied the land

[edit] Questions

Thanks for expanding this; I wrote the stub but knew little more about the Sinixt than what's here and there in BC history and historical journalism articles. A few questions, though:

- Teit describes a war between, I think, the Okanagan or Nicolas (Sce'emx-Siylx alliance in the Nicola valley) and the Sinixt; I have much of Teit in digi-form here but I remember he comments it resulted in a major depopulation of the Sinixt or, as he calls them, "the Lake".

- A separate article or at least a stub on the Sinixt language will be needed, if you or someone you know could write one; see Wikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America; I'll find the precise item on that page later and revise that link so you can find the relevant discussion about this. There's something of a standard format emerging for First Nation/Native American language articles, also.

- hmm had some other questions while I was wikifying the article, but I guess I haven't had enough coffee yet ;-) .... I'll be back.Skookum1 16:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

hey skookum1 Yah, I saw the article was flagged for improvement so I added a few things. It obvioulsy will need to be cleaned up and citations added, but I am a bit too busy at the moment. Will get to it though.

I am not familiar with your Teit reference at the moment. Part of the confusion was that Boas/Teit classified the Sinixt within the larger "Okanagan", but then subdivided the Okanagan proper to sometimes include a "Lake" division, as opposed to the "Lakes" which is always a reference to the sinixt. My suspicion is that he was referring to the former, although I am definately interested.

I will also add a language stub. I recall reading it was similar to colville, but more 'drawn out'.

Teit (and others) describe the late pre-contact war with the Ktunaxa, in which the Sinixt were eventually able to stop the aggressors by a final large-scale raid on the Southern Ktunaxa.

There is, however, quite a lot of evidence that there was significant regional conflict at some time prior to the smallpox. Many pithouse villages seem to have been abandoned in the 1400s. I suspect that there was major Athabaskan/Salish/Ktunaxa conflict far beyond the basic Nicola/chilcotin enigma. Let's not forget that the Apache/navajo etc. had only just arrived in the Southern plains when the Spanish got there in the 1500s (The Apache were reeking havoc at the time amongst the non-nomadic peoples who were indigenous to the area.). There are differing theories among archeologists about whether it was strictly a plains migration or 'inter-montaine'.

––––

Just changed a couple things. I changed it from 3800 years to "over 4000" years in order to me more accurate with respect to the "Salish Expansion". The evidence suggests the Salish came into the area 4500 years ago or so. Someone asked who they replaced? This is something virtually impossible to answer. After all, when we talk about the Salish expansion, we are including the Flathead, Spokane, Colvile, Okanagan, Shuswap, Thompson, etc. etc. There is an "archeological gap" of a couple hundred years prior to this. The biggest distinction between them and the people they replaced is that the people(s) they replaced were more clearly nomadic. Hence it is quite difficult to say. Both ancestors to the Ktunaxa and Sahaptin are good bets, although the nomadic nature of the times meant that there was probably a lot of changes over time. Regardless, we should not forget that 4500 years is longer than the "Irish" have been in Ireland or the "British" have been in England. Yes, there were Irish and British before, but 4500 is long before the Galic, the Norse, the Norman, the Romans or other populating groups entered those areas and gave them the genetics and languages spoken there today. 4500 years is a long long long long time.

[edit] Citation

As you can see, I've been making extensive additions based on Lawney Reyes' memoir, and citing them rather specifically. Could someone possibly improve the citation on the rest of the material? - Jmabel | Talk 06:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sinixt language needed

Even if only as a stub, as with Okanagan language, plus any refs that might google up for it; there's passages from Teit about them, and I've seen recent mainstream journalistic-history articles on them here in BC, though nothing on their language directly. That article would then get the Salishan languages category instead of this one; there are other hierarchies to be had here too, like the indigenous languages of the Plateau category and some others; whatever's on Syilx and Secwepemc, I guess. Anyway, separate language articles also infer that hopefully there's material on the Sinixt language (Sinixt'stn?) somewhere out there to form the stub with; other than that vague refs that it's closely related to Colville and [[[Okanagan language|Syilx'tsn]] (Okaganan) and such is fine; just to establish the stub. The modern Colville language/dialect, which I understand to be a creole of many Salishan languages from the area (and others?), also deserves its own article; again even if only a stub. But I wouldn't know what to call it; unless it has a self-description/name, e.g. Syilx'tsn vs Okanagan language; as the indigenous name is preferable.Skookum1 08:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colville re Okanagan Nation Alliance

Just curious, if there's someone from Colville or the ONA who could explain, and maybe amend the article appropriately - because the Sinixt are part of the Colville, and Colville is part of the ONA, does the ONA represent the Sinixt's interests in BC/Canada? Because I know there's some talking going on, even though no movement (I think) to treaty process; but I do know Sinixt rights/claims have been advanced up here, at last in print/web somewhere if not in process. I know there's something to do with archaeological digs with Sinixt involvement, and with Sinixt political implications, and I think some court proceedings as well as local orgs in support of them (nice thing about the West Kootenay as to the broad-mindedness of the neighbours...). I think they may also be somehow connected to Fort Shepherd Provincial Pari (if that links, I'm not sure), or Fort Shepherd anyway, which was established to serve them as customers when the border cut Colville, then the biggest fur trade centre, in the area, off from British territory; it's been restored and I think there's Sinixt involvement somehow, or permissions or something; something in the news up here, within the last five years anyway; don't know where to dig but it's out there....Skookum1 08:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Alternately, is it just the Okanagan families among the Colville who are allied/in the same tribal council with the Canadian Okanagan, or all the Colville?