Talk:Singing bowl

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
 
Portal:Religion
 Religion Portal
This article is supported by WikiProject Religion. This project provides a central approach to Religion-related subjects on wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start This article has been rated as Start on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.
Wikiproject_Buddhism This article is part of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. Please participate by editing the article Singing bowl, or visit the project page for more details on the projects.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

Contents

[edit] Difficulty

I've removed, "It is reportedly very difficult to master; if done incorrectly the bowl will produce no sound". This gives the impression that producing the sound is a difficult thing. This is not so, or at least, not for all bowls: I lived with a guy who had one last year, and it was very easy for me and other housemates to get it to produce the sound. — Matt Crypto 08:10, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


If it's a high quality bowl, you're right - they sing very easily.


[edit] Vandalism

I think i was just accused of vandalism on 1 December 2006! This is b9 hummingbird hovering here. I do NOT vandalise. I am not on my pc atm...but my edits are reputable and honourable. Respectfully.

Boris Allen (user): don't undo my edits (eg Singing bowl and Singing bowls without due investigation. If you have a challenge please add it to [[1]] so we may resolve. Respectfully Beauford

[edit] Multiphonic trance induction

I would very much like this paragraph to be investigated, sourced and referenced and included! I do not have my notes currently but I will in the not too distant future. :-D

Neuroanthropology and cognitive neuroscience are conducting research into the trance induction of altered states of consciousness (possibly engendering higher consciousness} resulting from neuron firing entrainment with these polyharmonics and multiphonics. Related research has been conducted into neural entraining with percussive polyrhythms. The timbre of traditional singing bowls and their polyrhythms and multiphonics are considered meditative and calminative and the harmony inducing effects of this potentially consciousness alterning tool are being explored by scientists, medical professionals and therapists.

Cool, please do, but don't forget Wikipedia:Reliable sources and WP:NPOV -- I'm pretty sure that this stuff is not mainstream. — Matt Crypto 14:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

NB: "pretty sure"... ;~P *heheheheheh*

"Understatement is a staple of British humor." — Matt Crypto 15:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

[edit] trance induction, etc.

Singing bowls are bells and wonderful instruments for personal wellbeing. There is no evidence of any traditional use in trance induction. Today, the vast majority use singing bowls for meditation and the peaceful feeling they help foster. It is a tiny minority that will ever be interested in trance induction, altered states, etc. Drums and eloctronic music are much more suitable for trance than singing bowls. Let's not scare people away from these sublime and gentle instruments by getting into the heavy shamonic stuff here on Wikipedia!

[edit] Singing bowl differences of perception and opinion

Singing bowls come from a shamanic tradition! The Himalayan tradition is fundamentally animistic and shamanic! Give this a read http://www.thameshudson.co.uk/books/Shamanism_and_Tantra_in_the_Himalayas/9780500511084.mxs/34/0/ (accessed: 3 December 2006).

There is a fundamental misunderstanding here...meditative states are a form of trance... sleeping is also a form of trance. Even conscious awareness in Beta is a trance. Trance involves filtering of information and brain functioning. It is a matter of functionality and efficiency. There is published evidence. Have you looked? Do u know of the Oracle in the Himalayan tradition? Are you a Buddhist practitioner? Do you regularly sound a singing bowl? I am a Bonpo Dzogchenpa in a traditional lineage. I employ singing bowls amongst other shamanic technologies. Throat singing induce similar brain states or trance states. In the Japanese tradition the Shakahatchi is used similarly for trance induction and meditation. Your understanding is cursory. I would like this issue to be put forward for a peer review. Why are trances 'scary'? Your ill informed and irrational fear born of ignorance is what is terrifying. I take offence at your misinformed value judgement of me and referring to me as "insane". I am also disappointed that you are Wiki-kin. Inform yourself. Conduct a current literature review of publications and peer review literature before making rash and unfounded determinations. Your understanding of "trance" is limited and your assertions false. Read the literature. I appreciate your views on the trance induction and I will ensure in the future that when i reintroduce the information about trance induction that it is referenced immediately. Your ignorance on traditional fountain bowls shows how cursory your understanding of the subject matter is. B9 hummingbird hovering 06:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Singing bowl as vehicle for multiphonic trance induction

Convergent disciplies of neuroanthropology, ethnomusicology, electroencephalography, neurotheology and cognitive neuroscience are conducting research into the trance induction of altered states of consciousness (possibly engendering higher consciousness} resulting from neuron firing entrainment with these polyharmonics and multiphonics. Related research has been conducted into neural entraining from percussive polyrhythms. The timbre of traditional singing bowls and their polyrhythms and multiphonics are considered meditative and calminative and the harmony inducing effects of this potentially consciousness alterning tool are being explored by scientists, medical professionals and therapists.

[edit] Information for later inclusion in singing bowl trance induction section

<removed -- sorry, we can't duplicate copyright material without permission, even on talk pages. — Matt Crypto 21:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)> Source: http://www.soul-guidance.com/sbbook/sb06.htm (accessed: 3 December 2006) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 07:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Structure of article

It is important to have separate sections for new singing bowls and traditional ones. Their fabrication is different which also results in significant resonance differences. Fountain bowls as a subset of traditional bowls are a documented fact. This is not conjecture and is documented in the literature I have cited. Whomever keeps on reverting the changes I have implemented I invite discussion and dialogue on differences to mutually resolve issues. I have not as yet reinstated a section about trance induction but I will gather further information. I have seen it in the past in one of the Journal of Consciousness(?) articles in the The University of Melbourne Baillieu Library and comparable information in The State Library of Victoria. I appreciate that the Brain Wave and Singing Bowl article that I pasted above is not well referenced nor well written but that does not negate that there is a body of reputable research published in peer review literature. Please make edits to this new structure of the article but do not merge traditional bowls with new bowls nor delete the sentences on fountain bowls (this should be a subsection of traditional bowls in the future), nor the references. What is the justification for deleting references? B9 hummingbird hovering 00:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] B9 Hummingbird - stop the nonsense!

Hey B9Hummingbird - please stop posting all of this weird esoteric information. Most people don't think of singing bowls in those terms and you are forcing your fringe, esoteric, conjectural and, in my opinion, misguided beliefs on this encyclopedia project. Most people think of singing bowls as nice sounding bells - humble instruments for meditation - not shamanic tools for trance induction. By the way - there is absolutely no real evidence that singing bowls were historically used for such purposes. There is a fringe community that uses them in the way you describe. Most people don't think of them like that at all. If you want to voice your esoteric and highly theoretical ideas, start your own website! This page is to explain simply what a singing bowl is - it's a place to introduce novices to the reality that they exist and to tell them simply what they are. Your ramblings will scare most people away, so please stop! This is not the place for you to mouth off about trance states. Give us all a break!

[edit] Retort

Whomever you are, you have another agenda. The trance item was three lines if that. But you reverted, deleting reputable and well researched and referenced resources as well as a format that clearly distinguishes between traditional singing bowls and new singing bowls. Inclusion, rather than exclusion is the key. This is not esoteric. That is factual and referenced in the edit that you revert without acknowledgement. You have also deleted conversation from here: the justification being? To promote ignorance. There is a lot of reputable research that has been published and there is quite a well referenced body of related articles on Wikipedia. Have you read meditation? I invite you to dialogue to resolve differences on the version which I have reinstated. Work with that. Lets dialogue to include information in ways that are mutually acceptable rather than delete differences. Differences in research and opinion should be included in the article. The singing bowl or cup gong is evident in many cultures. Maybe a section on cultural usage would also be appropriate. In Vajrayana and Bon trance is endemic and institutionalised. In current research 'trance' is the key term and auspice for which, meditation, and other altered states of consciousness are included. I repeat inclusion not exclusion is key. If you revert it is clear you have another agenda which is not reputable. How about logging in for transparency? B9 hummingbird hovering

[edit] innappropriate content

Hummingbird - your content is innapropriate for this entry. If you wish to pass on your esoteric ideas, you should start your own website.

This post is for a simple definition of a singing bowl - it is the place to introduce people who want to learn the basic facts. This is an encyclopedia entry - not your personal soapbox.

You write paragraph after paragraph of highly dubious "facts." The books you site are conjectural and your ideas do not represent any reasonable consensus. If you want to spread these ideas, find a more appropriate forum or create a separate entry for "singing bowl trance" or whatever.

[edit] Retort to innappropriate content

Hummingbird - have you been to Nepal? Have you been to Tibet? All of your statements are regurgitated nonsense. I found no less than 15 completely false statements in your post. In case you don't know, the books about singing bowls are full of holes and very innacurate information. These are not reputable sources. Your "knowledge" is a collection of pseudo-mystical ideas that have little relation to reality. You have read some books and think you know the cultures. Well, I've been there many times and have spent years learning about the reality. I'm telling you that what you have written is very innacurate, conjectural, biased and has a distinctly western new-age bent. You are buying into western ideas about Asian culture. It's not factual - just a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo. Until you write something factual, I will continue to replace your content.

[edit] Protection

I have temporarily protected this page to stop the edit war which has been going on for the last, um, month or so. Please discuss the issues here. Please respect the civility and no personal attacks policies; focus on arguments, not attacking the other person. Further, I would ask that people sign their comments on this page using four tildes: <tt>~~~~</tt>. — Matt Crypto 21:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] thank you for protecting 'singing bowl'

Thank you for protecting this post. The version that you chose to protect is the long standing text that was composed by leading experts on the subject and revised for several months before B9 Hummingbird began his assault on rationality. This individual has chosen to replace a straightforward and factual description about the object with his own highly subjective and conjectural theoretical ideas about the use of the object. I maintain that the usefullness of this post is to introduce people to the object with simple and factual statements, ie "a singing bowl is a type of bell" rather than B9's more controvertial approach of making claims like "a singing bowl is a tool for trance induction." Well, I've been working with singing bowls for years and I don't see them as a tool for trance or any other mystical mumbo jumbo. Let's keep it clear and simple. Let's inform people without scaring them away with high-brow new-age theory. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.2.161.89 (talk) 23:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Singing bowl protection

I thank you for locking 'singing bowl' and acknowledge the page locked is not an endorsement of the version therein. Something needed to happen to progress this stonewall. What does this undisclosed editor think the feeling of wellbeing they experience when resonating the singing bowl is? What is the mechanism that initiates this state? Answers to these questions do have a place within this article. It is a form of meditative trance. Regardless, I have cited references and requested dialogue with this editor. The other editor has not endeavoured to enter into dialogue and has provided no references to support their assertions and consistency refuses to create a login for probity. The other editor also resorts to offensive assertions and mud-slinging in an effort to slander me and the content which is disrespectful and inappropriate. They are railroading and I assert that they are endeavouring to commercially profit from perpetuating ignorance. I would assert that a regular user of singing bowls would be more harmonious and inclusive in their relationships and would appreciate the value of difference and the importance of different voices in scholarship. At minimum, I would like a clear distinction between 'new singing bowls' and 'traditional' ones and the inclusion of the sentence on fountain bowls. The references cited should be included as they are reputable and no others have as yet been entered. Let the other editor provide additional references that support their claims or counter what has been stated. This difference adds to the interest of the article and is demonstrably inclusive of different perspectives which is true to the voice of neutrality that is of the guiding ethos of Wikipedia. The editor should be encouraged to create an account so true dialogue can be entertained. I have clearly stated that I am willing to work together to find a mutually agreeable resolution. May I ask how this situation is now to be progressed? B9 hummingbird hovering 02:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what do you think about this powerb?

en-esed phonetics and word by word translation:

"dzban woden nosiw pooki uho penkwo" 
"vessel water cary until ear brake-down"

its usualy used in pl old tales. it mean "the pitcher hold up waters until the handle (ear shaped) was 'out of order'" ~ "until the time things was ok and afer not" is there any simmilar poverb or words usage ? Nasz 00:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC) the word dzban is simmilar to dzvon and the b<>v, o<>a are wel known sound change. Do the Singing bowl have any sense with connection with water eg to calibrate sound ?

[edit] Sharp division between old and new bowls

I'm reading this article for the first time, and learning about singing bowls for the first time, but my impression is that the article distinguishes perhaps a little too sharply between new and antique bowls, as if it were only antique bowls which produced warm harmonic overtones, and that new bowls were devoid of this quality. I want to say, "surely there is a difference between higher and lower quality new bowls" in which case, I would hope to hear more about what goes into a higher quality new bowl and how I might distinguish between the two. —Antireconciler ◊talk 17:06, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../s/i/n/Talk%7ESinging_bowl_8d73.html"