Template talk:Sim series

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I can understand removing the non-Sim games, but they should probably be on a list somewhere. Also, what's the difference between Other Sim Games and Sim Related Games?

Oni Lukos (No, that's not my real name) c 28 June 2005 12:39 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Major Changes

User:61.94.148.87 has made major changes to the Sim article without discussion. This is poor form. He has arbitrally decided that because a game doesn't use the "Sim" prefix, it is not a Sim game. I don't believe this is true and I have reverted the change. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) June 29, 2005 12:53 (UTC)

I wrote so because I read it from ([1], [2], and [3] — note the name of the games, and [4] — note the definition above the table). Can you give me reason why you regard games without "Sim" in the title to be Sim games? Thanks.
I can't speak for the other games, but I do know a bit about El-Fish. El-Fish is a simulation game and it was published by Maxis. The only reason that the title doesn't have the word "Sim" in it is because it was devloped indepedantly by a Russian development house. Had it been developed in-house it almost certainly would be called "SimFish". (In fact, that is listed as an altenate title on MobyGames.) This oddball title has been published in "Sim" compliation packs along with other Maxis Sim titles. (At least it has here in Europe.) Spore is in development by Maxis and follows it's tradition of Sandbox sim games.
Are we really going to say these games don't belong grouped with the other Maxis simulations just because they lack the word "sim" in their title? --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) June 29, 2005 17:14 (UTC)
Being a simulation game and published by Maxis doesn't make the game automatically a Sim game. Some games, like A-Train (train simulation), Unnatural Selection (life and breeding simulation), etc., are simulation games and published by Maxis too, but they are not widely regarded as Sim games.
Also, are you sure that, just because a game is developed independently, it couldn't bear "Sim" name?
There are other Sim games that is developed independently, but bears "Sim" name, like SimFarm (Leaping Lizard Software), SimHealth (Thinking Tools), SimTower (Yoot Saito), etc., and they are widely regarded as Sim games.
So, I think the obvious explanation of it not bearing the "Sim" name is that Maxis doesn't want El-Fish to line up with other Sim games, so Maxis doesn't give El-Fish a "Sim" title.
Are you sure that the alternate name for El-Fish is SimFish. Looking from the page, SimFish is the unofficial name given by fans. But, I have searched newsgroups and web for ``"El-Fish" AND "SimFish", but found few occurences (just 2 sites, not counting MobyGames). Can we call this unofficial name?
As for the "Sim" compilation, can you find me references to it (I can't find any references to it in MobyGames)? If the compilation is obscure and is not widespread, we can simply ignore it (else we are expected to include games in other obscure Sim compilation packs too, and we might include weird titles due to their inclusion in obscure Sim compilation packs).
EDIT: It appeared that SimFish is indeed the alternate name for El-Fish, so we can just list in the article as "El-Fish a.k.a. SimFish". This fulfills the "Sim"-in-the-title rule. 61.94.149.113 30 June 2005 11:54 (UTC)
As for Spore, well, I think we could make an exception to it (and to all games produced by Maxis after being acquired by EA), because I think the "Sim" in the name rule doesn't apply to games produced after Maxis had been acquired by EA. After being acquired by EA, Maxis (or EA?) got much more liberal in naming their games, so far as to naming other games not developed by Maxis as "Sim", and not naming games that obviously should bear "Sim" name (so categorizing them would be more difficult than games produced before EA acquisition). Consider these games, which was produced after EA acquisition:
  • "Spore" which you mentioned — Life simulations, created by Will Wright, developed by Maxis, published by EA, interfaces similar to previous Sim games, but doesn't bear "Sim" in the title.
  • "SimCoaster" and "Sim Theme Park" — Theme park simulation, bears "Sim" in the title, advertised by Maxis, but developed by EA using Bullfrog brand (or developed by Bullfrog staff in EA?), and is an enhancement/update to Theme Park, a game previously developed by Bullfrog (its interface is similar to Theme Park, and resembles none of previous Sim games).
So, in my opinion, Maxis' Sim games are:
  • For games published by Maxis before EA acquisitions: games that bear "Sim" in its name
  • As for games published by EA (after the acquisition), I am currently undecided (due to EA's liberal use of "Sim")
61.94.149.43 30 June 2005 04:28 (UTC)

[edit] Major revamp

I've decided to rebuild the box under the grounds that the previous version of the box was not meeting up to expectations for a few reasons:

  1. The box was using two tables, which mean that the table was easily opened to distortion when in contact with text or thumbnails.
  2. Addition of any titles in the box is found to be inefficient because each title was placed in individual table cells. ╫ 25 ring-a-ding 12:18, 10 August 2005 (UTC) ╫
Looking nice, though I'm not sure why you need the line break to clear all. I think it would look fine next to a floated element. Also, I'm not sure why you put a line break in the middle of the Other Sim Games section. Remember, it IS variable width, and my screen is kinda wide, so it looks odd with so much empty space. ~ Oni Lukos c 13:18, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
The upper line break has now been fixed. ╫ 25 ring-a-ding 07:09, 11 August 2005 (UTC) ╫

[edit] What constitutes a "Sim related" game?

Widget Workshop was just added back to the list after I'd removed it previously. I got to thinking...what constitutes a Sim Related game? Obviously, something like Marble Drop (Oh...hmm...no article. *puts writing a Marble Drop article on a mental checklist of things to do, along with writing a Full Tilt! 2 Pinball article and a Maxis Man article) or Full Tilt! Pinball won't get on (unless you want to call FT!P a Pinball simulator, which blurs it even more), but seriously. Widget Workshop? What's THAT simulating?

Also, Sid Meier's SimGolf was removed because it isn't a Maxis game. While this does seem to be true, it was influenced by Will Wright and it DOES have the Sim name in it... ~ Oni Lukos ct 00:54, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New section: Non-Maxis Sim games?

Seeing as (at least) SimCity 64 and Sid Meier's SimGolf bear the Sim name but are not Maxis-created, perhaps there should be a section for these? ~ Oni Lukos ct 19:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't be oposed to this. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 17:00, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Neither do I. "Non-Maxis Sim games" would be appropiate to name the section. ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 02:47, 24 February 2006 (UTC) ╫
Done. Added Sim Theme Park along the way. ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 03:07, 24 February 2006 (UTC) ╫
I don't think that this is an appropriate addition. The template states Maxis and Sim not or. The idea of SimUniverse is based around the Maxis concept. These other games are barely related to Maxis or the Sim concept. The Sim prefix does not a Maxis game make. — Scm83x talk 03:15, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
If that's the case, then the Sim-Related section doesn't make sense either because those don't have the Sim name! You're taking this a bit too literally. It's not STRICT STRICT STRICT, MUST FOLLOW ALL OF THESE CRITERIA. It's trying to give links to relevant topics. Hell, we can, you know, change the supposed list of criteria to make it fit what it's trying to describe better. It's not all set in stone. ~ Oni Lukos ct 03:30, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I can't argue with you for that. In fact, you have a point: This template is only designated for titles that Maxis has ever been involved in, and it should stay that way. I see you reverted my changes too; swift work. ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 04:15, 24 February 2006 (UTC) ╫

[edit] Sim Brick

I think only a handful of people will have heard of the parody Sim Brick. Is it notable enough for the box, and if so, where would it go? Spottedowl 12:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Sim Brick is a parody game and not by or affiliated with Maxis or EA in any way, so it doesn't really belong on the Maxis Sim Games template. ~ Oni Lukos ct 20:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inclusion of unconfirmed material

In the interest of factual accuracy and the fact that this is an encylopedia and not a fan site, should we be including information that has not been confirmed by an actual source, say the developer or publisher? --RedPooka 22:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

(top)

Oni Lukos, please add messages correctly! And the "Sim Related" usually means they have the prefix "Sim-" and are directly a type of Simulation game. Also with the "removing non-sim games" you stated, those ARE in-fact sim games, only they all have one source and do not describe ANYTHING about the games, merely the title and possible release date and so forth, thus making them canidates for deletion. :) --RedPooka 00:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

That message was well over a year old, and the circumstances surrounding the message have changed over the past year. It is mostly moot at this point. Also, why did you move my post so that it now looks like it's in response to a post that was made after it? ~ Oni Lukos ct 01:12, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Arrrrgghhh I thought that was a reply to what I said! Sorry. Let me return it to the top. --RedPooka 13:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SimCity 5 Article Link

I have noticed that there is a lot of reverting being done related to the inclusion of a link to the SimCity 5 article. The reason being provided for the reverting is that the SimCity 5 game is very "distant". While I agree with that, I do not agree that this means there should be no link to the article. If the article is a crystal ball then that is separate issue. In my opinion as long as the article is not deleted and SimCity 5 is going to be a "Sims" game, I think it should remain in the template. Camaron1 21:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

This article is now deleted, so naturally a link to the SimCity 5 article should only be restored when the article is in existence. Camaron1 | Chris 11:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
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