Talk:Silent Holocaust

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[edit] Good start

Good start IZAK. Thankyou for mentioning the orthodox view. I suppose it would be too much to ask to be allowed to post the whole truth that orthodox Judaism considers anything less than conservative judaism as being a major contributing factor to the silent holocaustr wouldn't it? It is true though. Reform is the death of Judaism as a national way of being and the birth of a religious identity from which one can easily lapse. Worse still, all kinds of Goyim are running around calling themselves Reform (or less) Jews these days. I was one of them. Zestauferov 16:45, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Actually, according to most Orthodox rabbis, Conservative Judaism or Reform Judaism "is not Judaism at all" (A Historic Declaration, The Jewish Press, Friday, April 4, 1997, p.24). However, Conservative or Reform JEWS are most definitely Jews if their mothers were truly Jewish or if they underwent valid Orthodox conversions. IZAK 06:09, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Recommendations

IZAK, I would strongly recommend you do a few things:

  1. Rather than just listing all the references you can find to Silent Holocaust, summarize the views of the different speakers, and give links to the pages in question.
  2. Include the non-Jewish usages of Silent Holocaust in a Christian section.
  3. Do not include links that do not actually refer to a "Silent Holocaust". Someone calling something "another Holocaust" is not an example of usage of the term "Silent Holocaust". --Jayjg 20:30, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • Everything you want. IZAK 06:09, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] This article is a disgrace

I cant believe my eyes. Such one-sided and prejudiced article (essentially a poster for Orthodox Judaism views) does not belong to the class of wikipedia articles. It needs serious editing and NPOV attitude. The authors better do something about it (other opinions, linx), since this is a presentation of an autistic and extreme, almost obsessive ethnocentric worldview. Mir Harven 14:20, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It's not even a poster for Orthodox Judaism views, just for the views of some Orthodox Jews. Jayjg 16:01, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, Lubavitchers. Mir Harven 20:43, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Hmm, no not specifically Lubavitchers. I don't think any of the Rabbis quoted are Lubavitch, and the author of this article certainly isn't Lubavitch. One day when I have time I plan to work on the article a little, as I've outlined above. Jayjg 00:10, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Mir Harven: The article provides an exact description and explanation of how the term silent holocaust is used, who uses it, and why it is used by them. Your reaction is not rational. IZAK 02:12, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Rational or not-your edition of the page does not dispassionately present what is the meaning of the term, but- and I doubt I'm wrong- gives the impression (bearing in mind the artillery barrage of the citations) that the coiners of the term are somehow right in their perception and, not questioning the authenticity of their worries, the term is, well, realistic and OK. So, it's not only explicatory but contains very visible value judgement. A problematic value judgement, to say the least. Anyway- maybe this entire affair is blown out of proportion. Just, NPOVy approach should have mentioned opinions that differ: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/toexist/ShiksaHome.html Mir Harven 12:19, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • The latter point and link have now been inserted. IZAK 10:32, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Not similar to racial purity

I'm having difficulty seeing the dissimilarity between those who don't like miscegenation because they are worried about "Aryans" becoming "Jewish" and those who don't like miscegeneation because they are worried about "Jews" becoming "goyim". Whatever the rights and wrongs of the views, they certainly do seem very similar. If you are arguing that in one case the distinction is racial and in the other ethnic, okay, that's reasonable, but you should note that "racial" and "ethnic" are distinctions based on the POVs in question, rather than something neutral that simply attaches to the distinction. Grace Note 06:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I note that Rabbi Ephraim Buchwald even suggests that the ends of the Silent Holocaust and that perpetrated by Hitler would be the same. Suggesting that there is no similarity would seem to run counter to that quote. Are you saying your perception should be more strongly weighted than Buchwald's? Can you please point to the publication that printed your view, so that your contention is properly sourced? -- Grace Note.

As stated before, Jews are not a race, and Buchwald is concerned about the disappearance of Jews as a people. Jews come in all races, and Buchwald is not concerned that any specific "racial" group within Jews will disappear. Jayjg (talk) 04:42, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Jewry isn't a race, but it certainly has its racial/genetic character (a rather tightly-delineated one, in fact), like all ethnic groups, and your answer is essentially a dodge.
In any event, does anyone have any gripes to quote that AREN'T simply from Jews indignant over the holocaust comparison? I.e., non-Jews offended that intermarriage with them is compared to genocide, Jews offended at the insult to everyone in the world except Jews inherent in the comparison, etc? Might be nice to consider the goyim. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.131.149.122 (talk) 21:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] NPOV and intermarriage quotes

I think that the quotes and attribution could be more NPOV. For example, I'm not sure what the advantage is of quoting David Duke quoting someone...I found that passage really confusing actually. Also, the praise of Rabbi Ephraim Buchwald as a "well-known rabbi (respected by all streams of Judaism for his outreach work to secular Jews)" is both unsubstantiated (how do you know he's so well respected?) and not on point (even if well-known, does that make this bit of his thought mainstream?) Just having the link to NJOP seems sufficent and nicely neutral (notice that the NJOP page is much more NPOV).

Also, I don't see that they establish that ""Silent holocaust" as referring to intermarriage/s is actually quite common, both among scholars and lay people". That is, I don't see that it's true that the commonality "can be seen from the following sources:". Indeed, the Buchwald quote does not identify intermarriage as the primary cause, in fact, he is much more forceful in blaming mal-education and Holocaust focus.

[edit] Other uses of term

Having Googled the term Silent Holocaust, the results show that the term is used to refer to a whole number of different situations, and that the descriptions given here does not even appear to be the most common ones. Additional uses of the term that had multiple references allude to.

-Abortion.
-The AIDS epidemic.
-The ‘Subjugation of Palestinians’ under Israeli occupation.
-The ‘creeping Islamisation’ of the West.
-The uncoordinated destruction of the Jews of Romania prior to the Nazi's systematic mass killings of the Holocaust.

There are others, though most appear to have been one off uses of the term.

Should this article be expanded to cover all uses of the term?

I would say so, though I don't have the resources/time to do so. RiotGearEpsilon 22:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I also have neither the time nor the resources, but absolutely agree this article ought to be expanded beyond the narrow definition of the term for which it is currently written. I have just now nominated the article for expansion. TJ0513 14:59, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abortion

I was under the impression that abortion was allowed in some situations in Orthodoxy; why does it say in the article that many Orthodox rabbis refer to it as the silent Holocaust? Mo-Al 16:22, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikilink

There is also an article "HIV/Aids in Asia". Referring to the Hindu world and its swastika, it might be useful to. But now I see your article is considered POV. ;-) I guess people should cut the link they make between Hitler/diabolics etc. and hinduism, it is so cheap. Hindus would never kill Jews: ahimsa! Instead, they were attacked in history (by Islam). Dartelaar [write me!] 01:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How many jewish males are coupled with white gentile women?

How many jewish males are coupled with white gentile women in the USA?

This talk page is to discuss the article, not the topic itself. See WP:TALK for more information about the purposes of article talk pages. janejellyroll 01:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
What is your reason for asking? Maybe it is relevant to the article. Bus stop 01:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
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