Talk:Sigma Alpha Mu

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This article was nominated for deletion on 10 December 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Contents 1 Bob Dylan's Status 2 Problem with history section/copyvio 3 Miscellaneous 4 Unsourced 5 AfD history 6 On the Recent Changes 7 Sources revisited

[edit] Bob Dylan's Status

Also I've ordered the Alumni by last name and deleted Bob Dylan's name from the alumni roster, as far as I can tell Bob Dylan pledged Sammy's but was never initiated

07:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC)GreatGreg, Sigma Sigma Chapter

I would like to see more of our Alumni listed on this page. We also need to link many more of our active chapters to it. I have added some key Canadian alumni to the page but I know of no comprehensive list. Most of my information came from Bill at HQ. Also, Bob Dylan did NOT undergo formal initiation, however he did complete 7 weeks of the 8 week Candid-Ed pledge process. I do not object to his association with the fraternity but he is not an alumnus. Chibrother, Chi McGill.

I dont think its such a good idea to keep adding Bob Dylan since he was only a pledge for 7 and a half weeks and did not get initiated.... -Dave

I agree it'd be one thing if Bob Dylan was initiated but he wasn't GreatGreg 02:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

According to the cited source, Dylan didn't even pledge but was just a tenant at the house. I've put a {{dubious}} tag on it; in the absence of a better source saying he pledged, his name should come off the list. —C.Fred (talk) 02:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with history section/copyvio

The whole intro (taken from the purple book) seems out of context in this article unless you are a Sammy.

What is this copywrite issue crap? All other frats (ie: Aepi) have similar pages, did someone complain?

Permission to use this information has been granted by Sigma Alpha Mu Fraternity. This is the official version of Sigma Alpha Mu's history and that is the reason why it appears verbatim on our National homepage. The authors of this article are simply spreading the approved (and most accurate) historical background about Sigma Alpha Mu. Please restore access to this article in its previous state. There is no copywrite issue whatsoever especially since both wikipedia and the Fraternity are not-for-profit. Blocking this article hurts both wikipedia as a source for accurate information and Sigma Alpha Mu Fraternity by lowering our profile.

In order to be useable on wikipedia material must be fully public domain or licensed under the GFDL, or wikipedia must be explicitly authorised to use the material. Please see WP:CP for instructions on how to license the material under the GFDL or how to send permission to use the material to wikipedia. Kcordina ^Talk 12:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and created a temporary article which is basically the same article minus the history section despite the fact that we have permission to use it because for some reason Kcordina doesn't think it's enough that it was indicated on our talk page that we have permission even though it's step two on the copywrite problems page. It seems that the only way to get the history section back is for someone with a sam.org e-mail address to send a message to permissions@wikimedia.org to indicate that it's okay for the history to appear verbatim in the Sigma Alpha Mu article, if anyone knows someone with a sam.org address you might want to ask them to do this. Thanks. GreatGreg 04:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I asked Mat Witenstein MatW@sam.org to do so. Lets hope he does. This whole copywrite crap is just ridiculous. - IsraeliSAMMY

[edit] Miscellaneous

I've formated the chapter roll to list chapters by the order they were frist started, i.e. single leter chapers, Sigma chapters, Mu chapters, Beta chapters, Gamma Chapters, ect. GreatGreg

[edit] Unsourced

Nice looking article here. However, I'm not seeing any sources cited. Please bring this article in line with wp:v.Alan.ca 09:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AfD history

An AfD was proposed on 2006-12-12 which closed as keep on 2006-12-17, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sigma Alpha Mu. Alan.ca 14:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On the Recent Changes

This is directed to alan.ca: Alan, although I thought I might suggest that you attempt to confirm the information people have been putting on here, instead of simply deleting it. I feel as though the attempt to delete was in bad faith, as, after reading your comments in the discussion, you seemed unwilling to listen to the other posters, as well as the inordinate amount of time you spend picking apart this article. Furthermore, after reviewing the "history" portion of article, I noticed that someone had cited an article on Peter Monk, which, after a quick investigation, confirms that he was a member, which was cited. Why would you delete this?

Please be a bit more constructive in your criticism. And, for future reference, the term is "fraternity", not "frat".

As for the rest of those who edit this article, I have removed the famous alumni section. I’ll get the sources cited on each of the guys, and put it back up. - hps05

Hps05, there had to be over 20 names on that list of famous alumni. If one of them had a source that was not clearly associating them as a member, I apologize for the oversight, but understand, if this article was not so out of bounds, that would not have happened. If, Peter Munk, was the only person listed, it would have been a lot easier to verify. I wish you the best of luck in sourcing that list and appreciate that you removed it pending verification. Thank you. Alan.ca 20:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I've got a couple of sources on some of the Canadian judiciary members, I'll put them up tonight. I do agree with Hps - lets try to fix this, as opposed to just deleting things. I've didn't really spend that much time looking (about 5 minutes on google), and found a few references. Beloch 21:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources revisited

As a reminder, if information relating to a living person is going to be placed in an article, a reliable source must be cited (see WP:BIO). This includes a source to back up membership in a fraternity. Right now, all but two of the alumni are uncited. Either a source to verify them needs located, or that information needs removed from the page. —C.Fred (talk) 01:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)