User talk:Sideshow Bob

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[edit] Welcome!

Welcome!

Hello, Sideshow Bob, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --PaxEquilibrium 15:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Warning

Thank you for experimenting with the page Portal:Montenegro/Did you know on Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you may want to do. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. PaxEquilibrium 12:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Please do not remove content from Wikipedia, as you did to Serbs of Montenegro. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. PaxEquilibrium 12:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Movement for Changes. Please be careful not to remove content from Wikipedia without a valid reason, which you should specify in the edit summary or on the article's talk page. Take a look at our welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. PaxEquilibrium 12:04, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits, such as those you made to Mirko Petrović Njegoš, are considered vandalism. If you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you. --PaxEquilibrium 12:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, as you did to Oj, svijetla majska zoro, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. PaxEquilibrium 12:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

This is the only warning you will receive.
Your recent vandalism to Demographic history of Montenegro will not be tolerated. The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. PaxEquilibrium 12:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I have replied at Talk:Mirko Petrović Njegoš.

Why do support the independence of Montenegro when its not jeopardized? --PaxEquilibrium 14:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I changed it,makes more sense now,doesn't it? Sideshow Bob 02:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dobro ni dosha!

Just a short hello from me. I am glad the number of Montenegrins is slowly increasing on Wikipedia. Pax is a bit possessive about history texts, and very biased in my opinion. He is a bit of a bully to the new members as well ;-) Drop me a line if you have problems or need help on a particular topic. Regards, Momisan 12:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CG Wiki

I've started up a CG Wiki at cgwiki.elwiki.com (it'll become a seperate website once it gets 10 articles, and it's for free). If you would like, you can join it (you can become a bureaucrat and a SysOp), though I will need extreeeeeeme heeeeeeeeelp!!!!!!!. And, it's written in the Montenegrin language as intended. Think about it and if yes, come join and help out. Please, just do follow the rules of the Montenegrin language on the wiki when contributing. Bye. --Crna Gora 04:04, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] football player information

Hello, just wondering where you getting information for the footballers you have been recently updating? I would like to start creating some stub articles and having basic player biographies should be enough for a start. Thanks :) // Laughing Man 06:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, let me know if you come across a good reference site for player bios as I've been using club pages as well random football 'database' sites, but most are either inaccurate or outdated -- ie, "Serbia & Montenegro" which is not very helpful. :) // Laughing Man 23:47, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why?

No, don't Kraj it. I promise I'll help the build up of the Montenegrin wikipedia. Please don't close it. I'm registering over there. I know I'll never be able to return CrnaGora, but there's still enough of us to manage some sort of a Wikipedia over there. --PaxEquilibrium 17:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tag on bokelji?

Why a tag on the Bokelji article? What are the reasons?

We're working on that mess right now, but my thinkings're on deletion. --PaxEquilibrium 23:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, Bokelji were and are Serbs, the Montenegrin Orthodox Church is little or none at all active in the Bay (which is the HQ of the Serbian Orthodox Church's activity and the Serbian institutions in Montenegro). Budva indeed is historically a part of Boka, and as a the Gulf is considered to be more of a historical entity, its residents still consider it (although it aint geographically, of course). --PaxEquilibrium 23:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Are you saying that Montenegrins who are adherents of the SOC are automatically Serbs? Budva is not a part of Boka, that is a commonly known fact to anyone familiar with the issue. Budva has been somewhat connected with the Bay, but not more than it has been connected to the old towns of Bar and Ulcinj. And trust me, people of Budva don't feel like Bokelji :). Another thing, there is a certain number of MOC adherents in Kotor and Tivat, and also Montenegrins who "belong" to SOC, or atheists. So, you can not call the Orthodox majority "Orthodox Serbs", because I know, and you know that is far from true. Not to mention that people indigenous to the region are overwhelmingly Catholics(Croats), who are a minority nowadays, and Serbs are partially people who moved from Hercegovina to Herceg Novi, so they do not belong to Bokelji ethnic group. I know there is a significant Serb presence in the Bay, but that doesn't make all of its Orthodox citizens Serbs. Sideshow Bob 01:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

1. Orthodox Serb (or Serbian Orthodox) not = Serb
2. A very large number of inhabitants of Kosovo do not feel as Serbians - but they are. The bocan associations deal with the Budva municipality too (but the main point is that the Budva is historically Bocan)
3. I'm redirecting the whole damn article to Boka kotorska. --PaxEquilibrium 16:29, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Žarko Čabarkapa

Do you have a source where he states he will most likely play for Montenegro? The entire "possible players" section is very speculative at best, but the players you listed who born in Montenegro are possibilities, but I think you should provide a source for Žarko Čabarkapa to clear any confusion to readers of the article. // Laughing Man 22:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I have read his interview to "Vijesti" where he said that.In the same newspaper I have read that Pavlovic said he wants to play for Serbia.I'll try searching their archive for the link. Cheers! Sideshow Bob 22:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

I just wanted to be in the middle. Such a controversial issue was bound to be heated - and I was right - it indeed was. By voting neutral, I'm not leaning to either side - and thus, I'm no ones' "enemy". You shouldn't be sorry. The plan for a Montenegrin Wikipedia was my original idea, but CrnaGora always rushed for, and I always knew that it would fail, because it's far too early. In fact, I still think it's early to get enough support for it. --PaxEquilibrium 13:38, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Тја

Његош се саде засигурно у гробу преврће!

Please remain calm & civil. --PaxEquilibrium 00:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I am being as calm as possible, even though I get frustrated by false interpretations of history. Intentional or not, it is not my judgement...

"Чините што знате, а не знате што чините." Sideshow Bob 00:39, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Well there are discussions for there. Please present calmly what you consider as a "false interpretation of history". --PaxEquilibrium 13:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The books

Do you have sources that they sing in Montenegrin? (Serbian is simply logical - for example if there was a Serbian-singing band in Croatia, then we could've written "Serbian", rather than "Croatian"). But if there are no sources... --PaxEquilibrium 23:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who has ever watched their TV shows or listened to a radio show(I'm a big fan myself:) knows that they declared themselves speakers of Montenegrin multiple times. They were/are also supporters of LSCG, and harsh critics of SOC, especialy Metropolitan Amfilohije,who is a frequent target of their sarcasm. Their political views are decisive and publicly expressed continuously. Now, the problem is that they are not presented on the Internet at all, besides a couple of news about their album,its promotions,etc. So, I am absolutely sure about their language orientation, but I don't see how I can substantiate it with evidence from Internet. Cheers. Sideshow Bob 00:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, this has nothing to do with politics (n)or religion. Fact resides in the simple controversy of the Montenegrin language (and due to that controversy, I insist you to give some arguments). A lot of people in Montenegro are Liberals and hate Serbia or are even subjects of the MOC - but they do not give up their own cultural heritage and say they speak the Serbian language. You'll have to bring up harder arguments. --PaxEquilibrium 14:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Hate Serbia eh? Why are Montenegrins who recognise their own national identity, always being accused of "Serbophobia" or so called "anti-Serbdom"? Montenegrin identity is not based on the hatred towards the Serbs, except for some extremists who go too far( such as Jevrem Brkovic). Anyway, as far as TBOK is concerned, they are surely speakers of Montenegrin language, and the only thing I can do about it is to search my archive and point out the episodes in which they mention it. Since I don't have enough time to waste doing that, I had put a compromise solution, Serbian/Montenegrin, and did not mention their political affiliation anywhere in the article. Sideshow Bob 20:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

CrnaGora has added the section while I was working on the article, so I won't be deleting it now, even though I didn't intend to mention it. I have just edited the section a lil' bit, making it somewhat more accurate. Cheers. Sideshow Bob 23:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool.

P.S. Well yeah, I was referring to the likes of Jevrem. Cheers, man. --PaxEquilibrium 23:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

Thank you for the translation - I knew he was attacking me, but he just wouldn't admit it. Now I have proof of more attacks from him. (As a trivial side note, this is my first edit since my block ended!). —King Ivan 06:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I noticed your message on Ivan's page and based on that you should know that wikipedia is no place for enhancing conflicts. What is the point of your observation of Emir's message, to support Ivan or to start a new destructive conflict between two users? Isn't it obvious that this behaviour is only pouring more oil on the fire. You have been recommended to stop. Regards Ancient Land of Bosoni

His point was to provide me with a translation of one of the messages that started the whole conflict. Also, be advised that I consider the conflict over, so please don't start a new one. —King Ivan 05:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. I also believe that no one should get away with personal attacks by simply writing them in another language. That behaviour is not less wrong if the other person can't understand the message. I suggest that this conflict ends, and that you don't involve me in it. Sideshow Bob 23:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Romania

Please see your user page (places in Romania you visited).

Cheers. --PaxEquilibrium 21:14, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I just forgot to put in a town, I only visited it shortly. But, thanks anyway. Cheers! ;) Sideshow Bob 01:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

I fully agree with your idea. --Crna Gora 01:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bob

Don't you find it shocking that there is no editor from Montenegro except User:Milant (and partially me)? --PaxEquilibrium 22:11, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I (myself of Montenegrin descent) live in ex Yu (or better said, at least in Europe :) and go there at times (a branch of my family lives in Cetinje). --PaxEquilibrium 12:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Multiple pages listed for speedy deletion

I just want to let you know that the following pages have been listed for speedy deletion under criterion A7, as they do not assert the importance or significance of their subject.

If you wish to contest the speedy deletion, you may place the tag {{hangon}} on the pages, and then explain why the page should be kept on their talk pages. I hope you have a good day. Kyra_~(talk) 22:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

These articles have just been created, I am trying to find more information about them, which is not an easy thing to do in this case. I would highly appreciate you not sabotaging my efforts. Cheers. Sideshow Bob 22:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I assure you, I am not trying to sabotage your efforts; the articles in their current form simply fall into the criteria for speedy deletion under criterion A7, which reads "Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content. An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject. If the assertion is likely to be controversial or there has been a previous AfD, the article should be nominated for AfD instead." The relevant guideline this criterion deals with is Wikipedia:Notability. If you believe that the articles should be kept, I would advise placing {{hangon}} onto the article and explaining why you believe the article should be kept on their talk pages. I hope you have a most wonderful day. Kyra_~(talk) 23:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

You know what, I have no intent on writing the same thing on 11 talk pages, and having discussions on all of them. Their notability is obvious; if we have an article on the league they are competing in, what makes the articles on the teams participating in that league less significant? I realise that current stubs do not represent those clubs' significance, but you obviously have no intent on leaving time for their improvement. So go ahead and delete them if necessary, I could care less. Nothing personal. Cheers. Sideshow Bob 01:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I was not aware that the teams operated on the pro level. Most of the tags have been removed by an admin, and I cleaned up the rest. As such, they are no longer tagged. Had I known, I would not have tagged them, although with my limited knowledge of soccer, I just called it like I saw it at the time; this was an error on my part, but luckily the pages were not deleted. Again, I am deeply sorry for any trouble I may have caused you, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask and I will do my best to assist you. I hope you have a good day, and happy editing. Kyra_~(talk) 09:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

No hard feelings, I highly doubt that even the experts on soccer would know anything about Montenegrin Third League. :) No need for apologies, thank you for understanding. I hope you have a nice day, too. Sideshow Bob 18:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just a nice chat

Mate, if you are like me, you must be tired by now from all these "pests" illiciting information, probing, pestering, insulting, fuelling conflict and ultimately spending our precious energy the wrong way :-) so, just a little greetings and a tap on the back from me. Keep up the good work! Cheers. Momisan 05:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

First sane message in a long time :) Perhaps you, CG, Outlook and me should somehow coordinate our work, get to know each other's interests etc. What do you think? Regards, Momisan 23:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Good start. Those were the articles, actually pretty much all the articles about Montenegrin history and culture fall into the same category, that were like a slap in the face when I saw them for the first time. The problem with me is the time, off course, so I made a decision to concentrate only on a few (cuisine, language, culture). I initially did a few edits on history articles you mentioned, however, found discussions on it too time consuming, as you might imagine. It is on the TODO list, though, perhaps when our group becomes larger, or more organised, we can tackle it with more success. Momisan 23:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:WP Montenegro

Your request has been fulfilled. The category's name is Category:Montenegro articles needing immediate attention. May I ask, what articles were you and Momisan thinking to do add to this category? --Crna Gora 01:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I did misunderstand you. As a result, I did create the new template upon reading your conversation with Momisan. :D --Crna Gora 01:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tivat or Kotor

I don't understand; so where do ya live? In Kotor or in Tivat? --PaxEquilibrium 12:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Just the Bocca? Have you ever been abroad? --PaxEquilibrium 20:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The thing you claim is very strange, because as far as I recall you come from the United States of America. :) I cannot remember the exact place; I believe it's something in Virginia, like Richmond or something... :D --PaxEquilibrium 23:35, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, man; there is Privacy policy. You don't have to tell me anything. :-) Not to hide the truth, I was a little suspecting you were not quite honest on that one, but never mind.

I'm (was) just wondered why/how on earth you moved to the US (it's a huge privilege). --PaxEquilibrium 00:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Happy to you too. Regards. --PaxEquilibrium 00:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Nope, not if you don't count the Balkans :) There were only insignificant trips to various European countries and outside only Canada and Morocco (oh, and 15 minutes in America!). :D --PaxEquilibrium 22:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I want to stand aside until the Linguistic Convention and the Montenegrin state officially recognize/accept/official it, so I wanted to stay in the middle.

But what Ego and his own has being doing really made me horrified. I probably "went off" too much (I was a little annoyed); so that might even pushed me away some too far (note that I am the very first conceiver of the idea of a Montenegrin Wikipedia). It was really bad what he did, and what many of his friends have been doing.

Like I said before; at Fall this year a full-scale functional Montenegrin language Wikipedia will be opened. That will give enough time to the linguists, and that's the time scheduled for the bringing of the Montenegrin constitution - there will be no need to oppose such a project then (even if people like Ego and his own do Milo Djukanovic-like things ;). Cheers! --PaxEquilibrium 00:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegrin language controversy at the Parliament!

Did You watch the Assembly's session yesterday? The main subject of the discussion was whether a Montenegrin language existed. The ruling coalition (DPS and SDP) suggested that an act of recognition of a language known as "Montenegrin language" be recognized as a spoken (minority) language in the Republic of Montenegro; which would perhaps be introduced into the Constitution (the original biased nationalist proposal of Milo Djukanovic to put the Montenegrin language as the sole official of the Republic of Montenegro was immediately dropped, as it was rendered in contradiction to various International Laws and essentially, illegal). As a response to Serbian remarks (read below), a DPS MP asked "Why was then Gorski Vijenac translated to Gorski Venac in 1927?" (which actually a Serbo-Croatian interdialect transliteration) In the end, President Vujanovic said that the largest argument lies in calling the language according to the state - all other ex Yugoslav countries did it (noted Bosnian as an example) and that there's no reason that Montenegro be an exception (he got hot critics from Montenegrin linguists for trying to mettle politics into linguistics).

The Serbian MPs vigorously opposed it in a most extreme nationalist way, claiming that's the Montenegrin language is a (stupid) fabrication with the sole purpose to alienate Montenegro from the other Serbian-speaking places so that Milo's fascistoids will have a firmer grip over Montenegrin, hidden through Montenegrin patriotism and ultra-nationalism. It threatened the government to stop the racist de-serbianization of Montenegro initiated by changing the Montenegrin tri-color flag and continued through state-controlled propaganda.

The opposition refused, in a less extreme way, bringing up a sensible argument: in 2003 more than 63% (400,000) of inhabitants of Montenegro declared their native language to be Serbian. They also reminded the whole Assembly that back then the whole Montenegrin government, including the President, hailed the people to declare their native language "Montenegrin" as a national interest and that during and before the census there was a progressive campaign in plans to make the majority of the population declare Montenegrin language as their native (with even occasional threats if not declared) - while options to declare Serbian weren't even presented. They remind that this was the greatest defeat of the DPS (throughout history DPS every single time takes everything deep under its control and every single time it wins a very tight victory [it's only strong in Cetinje, and no where else]), as even despite all this, barely 22% of the population declared the "Montenegrin language" as their native. They also reminded that the German is the official language of Austria.

The Liberal and Democrat opposition brought to the matter and asked why is Milo Djukanovic's original proposal that "Bosnian, Montenegrin, Croatian and Serbian" be rendered official not mentioned. They say that the only option is to either to keep Serbian as the only official, or declare all these (adding to it Albanian). --PaxEquilibrium 13:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

A CANU (Montenegrin Academy of Sciences and Arts) member said that politics should never mettle into linguistics, nor anything that does not concern politicians, as it would only lead to breeding new conflicts and distortions of truth, often non-related to real facts (as present across former Yugoslavia). He said that the government should leave it to the highest Montenegrin/Serbian and other legitimate linguists in Montenegro to decide the whole matter together with the highest Serbian linguists in the globe who should also be present to make a just conclusion/compromise and not an act from political need.

He also reminded that American language was for a short time the official language of the USA and it was even (to be) taught in schools. It was later dropped as the conclusion was it was a "not needed red herring". He also said that there were movements (and some people even today support it) to make an Austrian language; and that it was after WWII. He's convinced that the Montenegrin language will pass through similar things, but warned that these're the Balkans and that here is anything possible ("Tomorrow Croatian language might be official" he said). I think that that which he's claiming is not quite presenting the reality, as the idea of a "Montenegrin language" did not come as an outrageous proposal that was pretty quickly dismissed - and also, the Montenegrin language ideology is slowly, but steadily growing in popularity (unlike the other examples). --PaxEquilibrium 16:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

The Democratic Party of Socialists just proposed that the Montenegrin language be states as the (sole) official language. It was supported by the Social Democratic Party. It bases its claim that the country should be named in accordance to the state's name.

The Serbs (Serbian People's Party, People's Socialist Party, Democratic Party of Unity and Serbian Radical Party), the Socialist People's Party, the People's Party and the Democratic Serbian Party want the Serbian language to be kept alone, on the basis that more than 63% of the population speaks the Serbian language (according to the last not-so-long-ago-held population census), i.e. a firm majority.

Neutral, international (and domestic) polls decided to solve the controversy by conducting wide-scale polls asking the population what language they speak. It appears that these days over 60% of the population still considers its language Serbian, which further gives a plus to this.

The Movement of Changes suggested that the new Constitution states "Serbo-Montenegrin language is the official language of the Republic of Montenegro".

The Bosniak party also wants some form of mention of the Bosnian language. This is especially because the Montenegrin DPS Milo's regime does not recognize the Bosniaks their national language. --PaxEquilibrium 19:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

It's from NDI (National Democratic Institute).

Milo demands the Montenegrin language and the opposition demands the Serbian language. Why do You consider PzP's proposal laughable? How can a mutant be created when same things are combined (Montenegrin and Serbian are one language).

Well this was Milo's original proposal from the early 21st century (although I believe it was only there to attract minority support): "Bosnian, Montenegrin, Croatian and Serbian language" as the official in Montenegro (back then he was at odds with the Albanians, who're now the sole reason that still keeps him in power).

BTW if You have voting rights (and if You voted), for whom did You vote in 2006? --PaxEquilibrium 21:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll answer You with a counter-question: Why is there an article on Serbo-Croatian. :) Considering that Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, Bunyev, Zlatiborian or whatever name anyone makes up for it, I would be a self-contradicting idiot to claim that Serbian and Montenegrin are not one language. :) BTW that's exactly why I expressed those opinions on the (second) request for a Montenegrin Wikipedia.

The Movement for Changes is unarguably the best option to me, the Liberals have stranded off too far from their original beliefs, and the party has no greater future outside an alliance which would be led by the Movement for Changes and/or the Popular Socialists. And although their goals are just, their means aren't. There is no one with whom they haven't been (yes, even the Serbian Radical Party) for a Liberal party...and I don't like some of their people (former Serbian ultranationalists, now extreme Montenegrin nationalists). It's good that there's just few of 'em. You know where I stand at the language's issue. I stand firm at either mentioning Serbian, Montenegrin, Albanian, Croatian and Bosnian. I would also demand Milo to recognize the Bosniacs their language, what he's doing is futile. Another option can only be - just Serbian (that does not mean that I'd accept "Serbian and Montenegrin" or any mixture whatsoever, but these options go before).

Leave the religion out of it. Issue an edict recognizing the Serbian Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Islamic Community and any other only in edicts issued by the Parliament.

Non-national free civic state. I'd also accept a "State of Montenegrins, Serbs, X [whoever goes here, Bosniacs or Albanians] and all other citizens", but not so much as the first part.

I also don't like DPS's demands on not holding elections immediately after the Constitution (they fear) and their demands for a solely government-controlled Court. I also don't like their constants ignoring of national minorities' rights. I never really understood why so many people support Milo, he's a demagogic and corrupt person (then again, I never understood all the people that support Milosevic). --PaxEquilibrium 11:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that PzP-SNP-NS-someone else could easily win the next election. At "someone else" I think LP most probably; I also wouldn't mind that GP or the Greens return (or even DS), but I fear having larger MPs in the parliament might come at a terrible cost - repetition of that which happened to DOS in Serbia. Such a coalition (with Nebojsa Medojevic as Prime Minister, or someone else whatever) could easily attract support of the minorities (Slavic Muslims) and with Serb support, a government (minority or not) ould be easily elected without problems. --PaxEquilibrium 18:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not so skeptic about SNP. Ever since 2001, I consider it (until of course PzP emerged) the best political party (there were better choices [heck, even the Civic Party], but its vast political strength and popularity made it "best"). I mean unlike DPS (or even SDP and LP) the party does not hide its goals, and say that the possibility of recreating a state union with former Yugoslav countries (preferably Serbia, despite that seems almost impossible) must remain open.

I don't see how could that be deceiving, since Serbian is much stronger than Montenegrin presence anyway. I think he's just subsiding and starting to accept reality.

Treacherous? How come; You never ever supported Milo and You new how was he, how could this be treason? BTW I think we all learned this so far: Milo betrayed everyone he was in possibility to betray, ever. :) If tomorrow he betrays himself by surrendering to the Italian Police, I still wouldn't be wondered. :)))

Yes, I know about Your opinion. :) But You didn't answer me - didn't You ever hear of Serbo-Croat? BTW in Croatia a similar thing was done in 1974. After the nationalist 1970s and the Croatian Spring, Tito subsided to the demands and changed "Serbo-Croatian" (or "Croato-Serbian") to "Croatian or Serbian", until Croatian was just left in 1990. I think "Montenegro-Serbian" or whatever will last, until "Montenegrin" is just left (if DPS makes it that long, which I seriously doubt). But I do not think that the Montenegrin language could be formed/survive without DPS... (so you see now my skepticism over at the Meta wiki-request).

Actually, it's likely they'll be this year immediately. I am almost positive DPS will lose (even if it goes together with SDP). But I fear that PzP and SNP will not be able to make out their differences and organize a minority government with someone else (PzP would never go with SNS, with which SNP would; while SNP would never go with LP, with which PzP would).

Of course I am not delighted by it. I told what I'd prefer (just "Serbian" or "Albanian, Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian"; but I also said that I could accept "Montenegrin and/or Serbian"). Cheers --PaxEquilibrium 21:21, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I meant "Albanian, Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin and Serbian". --PaxEquilibrium 21:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sad

What? I did not get what I wanted.

I wanted (and thought that'll happen) the request will stay at the Meta for another month or so, when we became sure if the Montenegrin language is formed. Do You know how tiresome it will be to remake the request after 2-3 months, for a 3rd time!?

Not what I wanted at all. --PaxEquilibrium 11:14, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that the main problem lies in the fact that that you fight and that You see this all as a Battle. That's no case. --PaxEquilibrium 16:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

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