Talk:Shrimp farm

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Wow...just over 15 edits and I could already think of this being a featured article candidate. Absolutely amazing. -- Natalinasmpf 6 July 2005 12:14 (UTC)

Well, thanks. It all started with this comment of mine, and when I tried to put together a short blurb, I discovered so much material that it kept me occupied for a whole two weeks. :-) Maybe a take through peer review might be good, though. My grammar may be a bit awkward at times. Lupo July 6, 2005 12:26 (UTC)

Well, finally at last. It did take three months, but I knew it would make it. :p -- Natalinasmpf 06:10, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Selective breeding, domestication

I'd like to know (and eventually find in the article) if and how shrimmps are selectively bred to improve their growth, fit to intensive farming etc.. if they already have been modified, if they or some of the species are to be considered as domestic or on the way to be so. salmon for example are being domesticated.

[edit] sustainable shrimp farming

I think that the issue of sustainable shrimp-farming is not problemized enough on this page. Sustainable traditional shrimp-farming is nothing new. However, as far as I know there is no evidence that sustainable shrimp farming is feasible for export-oriented production with current technologies.

I beg to differ. I think the article quite clearly states what the problems are. It doesn't claim that sustainable intensive farming was possible, but you cannot deny that at least a few programmes to improve the situation such as the World Bank/NACA/WWF/FAO programme do or did exist. Granted, their impact so far appears to have been very minor: I have not found any information about any big improvement anywhere... The article explains the ecological problems and offers pertinent links to more in-depth discussions. If you have more recent information about e.g. that World Bank et. al. programme, feel free to add it, but source the statements and try to present them in a factual, unbiased way. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, not an opinion piece. Maybe the reason that you think the article was not harsh enough is the fact that my personal opinion of shrimp farms is rather negative, but I tried not to let that show through. Lupo 18:27, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Social impacts

It has been pointed out at the FAC discussion that the "positive sides" of shrimp farming were not mentioned. I plan to add a new "Social impacts" section, but from what I've found so far, it won't be exactly "positive", either. Are there any positive facts about shrimp farming? In third-world countries, they seem to generate profit only for a small minority, while causing losses for the general population. The old issue of external costs...

Here are my links so far, feel free to add more, especially if you do find positive mentions! (The list is completely unsorted and unpruned, and I haven't really reviewed any of the articles pointed to yet. Just the results from some Googling and a quick glance to check whether or not it might be relevant.)

Lupo 10:37, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Reviewed links:

  • McClennan, C.: White Spot Syndrome Virus – The Economic, Environmental and Technical Implications of the Development of Latin American Shrimp Farming, Master's Thesis, Tufts University, 2004.
    Reviews the development of shrimp farming in three Latin American countries: Ecuador, Peru, and Mexico. Places an emphasis on economic developments, with a focus of the effects the Whitespot outbreaks of the late 1990s had. Also highlights some of the differences between Ecuador (an early adopter, tropical country, weak government control, shrimp farming controlled by large companies) and Mexico (late adopter, sub-tropical environment, strongly regulated business, shrimp farms mostly owned by locals or local co-ops). The basic thesis is that disease problems led to a growing recognition amongst shrimp farmers that their current practices were indeed self-destructive, and that they for economic reasons alone realised that they had to develop more sustainable ways of farming. Also mentions the financial problems caused by diseases (wipe-out → no income → cannot pay back loan rates → debt rises → farm folds). The boom period—high profits were possible in the 1980s and early 90s, but apparently only because the negative external costs (i.e., the environmental impacts) were ignored—is over. WSSV led to generally more government regulation of shrimp farming and mangrove protection laws, although enforcement is a problem. The discussion of Peru, a minor producer nation, is rather short. The paper has some nice overviews of the most important viral diseases (the same as in the article), with graphics showing their spreading. Lupo 07:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • DeWalt, B. R.: Social and Environmental Aspects of Shrimp Aquaculture in Coastal Mexico, paper presented at the Mangrove 2000 conference in Recife, Brazil, May 2000.
    Overview of shrimp farming in Mexico, basically agreeing with McClennan. Mexico seems to be a unique case due to the strong government control over land and sea use rights, which were liberalized only in the 1990s. Before that only the "social sector", which DeWalt explains as "agrarian reform communities (ejidos), communal organizations, or production cooperatives that are comprised primarily of resource-poor individuals", were granted the right to acquire or use land for shrimp farming. Private enterprises could only enter the market since 1990, and even then have to arrange themselves with the ejidos from which they have to buy the land. In general, shrimp farming in Mexico has developed slower than elsewhere, but has also managed to avoid to worst errors committed in other countries and seems to operate on a level that is far less detrimental to the environment than e.g. the operations in South-east Asia (or Ecuador, cf. McClennan). The main reasons are:
    • Most farms are in desert coastal regions, where no mangroves grow.
    • Farms are spread out more, not clustered so tightly together.
    • Proactive laws helped inhibit some of the worst practices from the start.
    • The late entry of the private sector.
    Note: McClennan points out two more interesting facts: first, Mexico has a large domestic market for shrimps, cushioning the economic losses of WSSV in international trade (at a disease outbreak, shrimps are harvested right away, before they die, at sub-optimal sizes that attain lower prices). Second, shrimp farming in Mexico really expanded only in the last 10 – 12 years; the time may be too short for long-term negative effects to surface. Lupo 07:46, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • Kuljis, A. M.; Brown, C. P.: A Market Study of Specific Pathogen-Free Shrimp, Center for Tropical and Subtropical Aquaculture, CTSA publication #112, Hawaii 1992.
    A bit dated, but gives a good summary of the early history of shrimp farming in Thailand, Ecuador, Indonesia, and the Philippines. Reminds me that we should mention in the "Ecological impact" section that current hopes of the industry for overcoming the environmental and disease problems lie in
    • The development of "Specific Pathogen-free" (SPF) Broodstock and using that exclusively (currently, many farms still rely on wild broodstock).
    • The development of recirculating closed-circuit farming systems with no or minimal water discharge. That's for the future, though, current efforts include using intake filters with very fine meshes and lining ponds with plastic to avoid direct contact with the soil. Any such measures are costly, though, and not suitable for extensive farms. Some farms also have special "effluent treatment ponds" where the contaminations are aupposed to settle at the pond bottom before the water is discharged. I don't know (yet!) what other kinds of treatments are done in the cleaning ponds or how many farms do have them at all.
    • Generally using less intensive farming methods, such as having only two brood cycles instead of three to give the ponds a resting period (also see McClennan).
    We'll have to explain what SPF means, though. Lupo 09:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • Hempel, E.; Winther, U.; Hambrey, J.: Shrimp Farming and the Environment – Can Shrimp Farming Be Undertaken Sutainably?; World Bank/NACA/FAO/WWF Consortium Program on Shrimp Farming and the Environment, 2002.
    This report of the World Bank et al. programme has been prepared by the KPMG Center for Aquaculture and Fisheries. It looks like a very good source. KPMG is one of the largest accountancy firms and not exactly known to have an environmentalist bias. I feel it fairly considers the social and environmental aspects of shrimp farming, without distorting either the benefit nor the problems. I have used this report for many facts in the "Social changes" and the "socio-economics" sections. Lupo 12:31, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
  • Barraclough, S.; Finger-Stich, A.: Some Ecological and Social Implications of Commercial Shrimp Farming in Asia, United Nations Research Institute for Social Development (UNRISD) Discussion Paper #74, 1996.
    This is a literature survey undertaken in 1996. While it may miss out on some more recent developments, it is still a valuable source by an independent organization. The report focuses on purpose on the problems of shrimp farming and tries to point out some research directions. I was initially very reluctant to use this as a source at all: because of the survey design, it reads very biased. However, many of its statements are backed by other, more recent reports (e.g. the KPMG one), and where that is the case, but the treatment here seemed clearer to me, I have used it as a reference. It is also a handy secondary source to keep the reference list from growing too much—it's already uncomfortably long. Lupo 12:31, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Links

Lupo, here are a couple links to NPR (National Public Radio) stories relating to shrimp farming:

These are all audio files so if you have trouble listening to them let me know and I'll try to find transcripts. I'll also look for more links - this is just one source I remember hearing.

  • [1] give some idea of profits for peasant farmers in Thailand.

-Bantman 15:34, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Indeed I cannot listen to your audio links—I have never found out why, but for some reason I have no sound on this crappy computer. Sorry. NPR transcripts appear to be pay-per-view. Anyway, I prefer written publications. TV and radio broadcasts are so ephemeral, and it's basically just another person stating something. One would need to assess the veracity of any such information in each case, and the danger of arguments along the lines "this or that station is too liberal/too conservative/left-wing/or whatever" is just too big for my taste. (Note that I don't know NPR at all; this is not some disguised criticism of that particular station.) That's why I prefer peer-reviewed scientific publications (they generally tend to be written more carefully), or summary reports like those from the World Bank you pointed out, where one may also safely assume that they are reasonably fair. In some cases, I also settle for publications from other sources (renowned newspapers, Nature, or even web sites of others (such as Rosenberry's)), but only if the facts stated there are corroborated by third parties. For undisputed facts I'm ready to use any odd web site that explains it best. Lupo 09:27, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganization proposal

  • Introduction
  • History
  • Fundamental techniques (to replace "technologies")
"The fundamental techniques of shrimp farming have been developed to foster the development and growth of shrimp from egg to maturity in a controlled environment..."
    • Hatcheries
"Hatcheries represent the first stage in shrimp farming, deploying breeding stock to lay eggs and raising thsoe eggs to the nauplii or postlarvae stage..."
    • Nurseries
"Nurseries help postlarvae transition to adulthood by..."
    • Growout
"Growout represents the final stage of shrimp farming, where young adults are prepared for market by..."
  • Varieties of shrimp farms
    • Extensive (I would suggest using "low-intensity" instead, as in American English "extensive" in the sense of the opposite of "intensive" is an unusual use and potentially confusing)
Description and defining characteristics of low-intensity shrimp farms
    • Semi-intensive
Same
    • Intensive
Same
  • Species
    • Species A
    • Species B
    • etc.
      • Diseases (subsection of species, as they are species-dependent)
  • Economics
  • Ecological impacts
  • See also
  • Footnotes
  • Refs

Above structure proposed by User:Bantman, August 16, 2005, 20:33 (UTC).

Well, to me it looks like you just move the technology section up (before species) and introduce subheadings for the different types of farms. I think having the species before the technology is important. We have to explain the lifecycle before going into techniques because once you understand the lifecycle, the separation into hatchery, nursery, and growout immediately makes sense. Otherwise, the reader is left wondering. Could you explain why you want to move that section up? Maybe I can then see the light... Diseases are not all species-specific, several affect multiple species. I'd keep it as a separate section (before economics, too), but it could be expanded by covering in more detail the impact they had on farming, as well as the lessons learned. Another reason to keep it as a separate section is that diseases not only affect species, but also have a great impact on the economy. Concerning terminology: I would stick with "extensive", it's apparently one of those technical terms you mentioned as not being explained (Rosenberry uses it, too, and he's an American expert); we could explain it by writing "Extensive farms, i.e. low-density farms typically using traditional methods,..." or some such the first time the term is used. Lupo 06:42, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

This is a bit of a sticky wicket. I don't want to rewrite the article myself, but I don't want to make this a case study of English composition either. Basically, this article is about shrimp farms, not shrimp species. That means that what shrimp species are farmed should go after a discussion of what shrimp farming is. This is also not a book, so we can't dedicate whole sections to laying the background to the main topic before we get to the main topic. With adequate linking and a well-written introductory paragraph, we can make it immediately clear that farming stages correspond to life cycle stages in an integrated way as I outlined above. I believe my outline would provide a much easier read that flows logically from topic to topic without requiring the reader to slog through background information before he gets to the actual subject of the article. - Bantman 17:30, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
So you want to address the "how do you farm?" before explaining the "what do you farm?"? That strikes me as illogical. You'd either get forward references for terms like "nauplii" or "postlarvae" (and I think forward references in texts should be avoided), or you'd just link such terms and explain them in other articles, but then people would ask for brief inline explanations anyway for sure, or you'd get a scattered explanation of the lifecycle, explaining a bit here and a bit there. While this is not a book, the article isn't oversized and won't be so even after I'll have addressed your questions, and even size constraints are no reason to use terms before defining them. With the current structure, there is one logical place for explaining these things ("lifecycle" as a subsection of "species") and it even offer a nice bridge to "technologies". Lupo 06:02, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

I just noticed that now we've both claimed our respective outlines were more "logical" than the alternative :-) Oh well... I guess we just disagree. I won't change the global organization of this article. If your proposal, which would require a substantial rewrite, is to be tried, you or some third party will have to do it. Lupo 06:07, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Another user also thought "species" should come after "technologies". I've changed it accordingly, but I'm not particularly happy with it. Lupo 09:15, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unexplained technical terms

Bantman, you mentioned in your FAC objections "undefined technical terms" and promised to address this issue here. Which technical terms do you feel are undefined or need more explanation? Lupo 06:02, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for my absence - real life got busy. Here is a list of undefined technical terms:
  • broodstock (lead section)
    Hmmm, yes, well, hmm, agreed. Will lead to discussing SPF broodstock, though.
  • fry (history and geography; link is dab with very little useful info)
    Oh no. If I replace it with "larvae", I'll have a forward reference again. But asking me to write the article on fry, too... really! I'll see what I can do.
  • IHHN virus (farmed species)
    Oops, a forward ref. Is explained an linked later on, I'll rephrase or just link it.
  • farm-gate value (economy)
    Price at the farm gate, i.e. the price the farm gets, not the price you'll pay in the store. Will see how to explain that, if I'm lucky, I can just link it.
Another question - the animal densities are listed per square meter, but water is volumetric; i.e. cubic meters. Animal densities should be per cubic meter.
Brr. 'Scuse me :-) No, certainly not! Adult shrimps are benthic animals, i.e. they live at the bottom! Methinks I'd better explain that somewhere... I'll check that the desities for nauplii and postlarvae in "hatchery" and "nursery" are m³, though: there they should be volumetric! Lupo 19:33, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
-Bantman 16:50, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
All dealt with. Lupo 09:13, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] FAC leftovers

Still to answer:

  • Impact on shrimp fisheries? (from Bantman)
    I'm unsure as to how detailed this should be treated. Needs to distinguish between impact on local fisheries in countries where large-scale farming is done and impact of shrimp imports on the fisheries in consumer countries. Also would need to cover the impacts on local coastal fishery of other species (sometimes suffers) and on broodstock fisheries (suffered heavily because of the trend to hatchery broodstock). Lupo 13:15, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
  • Market discrimination of farmed vs. wild shrimp? (from Bantman)
    Could go in a section "The product", which should also explain what happens with the shrimps after they are harvested. Might touch on consumer health issues. Lupo 13:15, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

I somehow fear that both these points could get quite large. The article is now at 51kB, it shouldn't grow much anymore! Lupo 13:15, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

  • I'm not happy with the lead-in of the "farming methods" section. I've got a new version in the works, and will probably also work over the history section; it could use some slight expansion. Maybe even a world map showing where there are shrimp farms, together with the year the country started export-oriented shrimp farming. Lupo 06:36, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
    I've improved (or so I hope) the "farming methods" part, the rest is still in the works. Lupo 09:47, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Language nits

The lead para uses "shrimp" and "prawn" without the 's' for plural, but most of the rest uses 'shrimps'. Also, "growout" is either BritEng (or CwE), or else is a technical term...is 'rearing' or 'raising' pond only AmerEng, or would one of those work as a compromise? 198.104.63.140 02:21, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I'll check about "shrimps". As to "growout": this seems to be a technical term, it is used in many publications on shrimp farming. Lupo 15:48, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The plural of "shrimp" can be either "shrimp" or "shrimps", both are correct. I wonder if there is a distinction like "fish" vs. "fishes", i.e. using one for a collection of individuals and the other when referring to multiple species of shrimp... Lupo 07:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Additional perspective

A nice overview that may be worth working into this splendid Wikipedia article is at: Primavera, Jurgenne H: "Mangroves, fishponds, and the quest for sustainability." Science 310(5745):57-59, 7 October 2005, doi:10.1126/science.1115179 Myron 01:35, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

That's even on-line here (1062kB PDF)! I'll read it and see if it contains any angles on the topic we haven't covered yet. Lupo 15:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
It's a three-page empathic personal account of a Filipino marine scientist who has been working on the topics of mangroves and aquafarming, in particular shrimp farming, in the Philippines since the 1970s. It gives a brief summary of the issues and generally agrees with our article. I have not found any new angles. She confirms the points made here: social disruption (in the Philippines, most shrimp farms are owned by a few wealthy, influential families, not local owners), ecological problems, law enforcement problems, etc. The silvofisheries mentioned by her are also mentioned in the World Bank/NACA/FAO/WWF report; these are still very much in the research stage and are an attempt to develop low-impact, small-scale aquacultures within mangrove areas without clearing the mangroves. Whether that approach is ever amenable to large-scale, export-oriented shrimp farming is uncertain at best. The essay is also available at the Science Magazine Global Voices series (probably will be moved to [2] in November 2005), together with a nice little slide show. Since the essay is not a peer-reviewed publication and does not contain any references itself, I feel it is not suitable as a reference for our encyclopedia article, but it might be worth adding to the "External links" section once the URL at Science Magazine has stabilized. Lupo 07:23, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Version 0.5 nomination failed

This article is considered to fall outside the scope of the Version 0.5 test release, since this version only includes a limited number of articles. It is now held ready for a later version such as Version 1.0 nomination. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 03:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In the news...

The January 2006 newsletter of the USMSFP, the U.S. Marine Shrimp Farming Program, mentions this article as "an extensive entry about shrimp farming", "complete with various links written by several within our industry. It’s a great resource to direct wouldbe shrimp farmers." Lupo 16:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nauplius photo

I understand this is a featured article, but I saw the photo of the shrimp nauplius in the Crustacean article, where it was labelled as a prawn. The same is true of the Nauplius article. Is the photo labelled wrong?--Crustaceanguy 00:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The terminology is not strict. See Footnote 1. The photo shows a nauplius of Fenneropenaeus chinensis, commonly called "Fleshy prawn", "Chinese white shrimp", or "Oriental shrimp". See Penaeus. Lupo 07:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dead links

I have removed some dead links, but note that every link to ShrimpNews.com seems to be dead -- which doesn't even touch the question of whether they were any good to begin with, since it appears to be one guy's newsletter. --Calton | Talk 01:33, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

On the Rosenberry (ShrimpNews) links, go judge for yourself: I've re-added links to the archived web pages for those of his pages that didn't work anymore (several still work, so not "every link is dead"). I have also re-added the link to Hossain/Lin; it isn't dead at all and works perfectly for me. Lupo 07:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
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