Talk:Shotokan

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from April 15, 2006

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[edit] Is Kenpo a karate style?

If it were up to me I would remove kenpo from the list of "big" karate styles. I have never seen it included before. AFAIK, the big 5 are shoto, wado, shito, goju and kyokushin. Anyone else agree? Shinji nishizono 23:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elvis and Shotokan

"Some of [Elvis'] signature stage moves are stylized Shotokan postures." This seems like it would make a great picture, best I could find with a quick google search was this - http://liquidblue.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/stickers.detail/stickers/elvis_presley/CODE/RETEPKPS/KARATE_POSE.html - Robogymnast 19:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Although Elvis did train in shotokan, most of his training was in Ed Parker's Kenpo. I'm not sure you should include this in the shotokan article for that reason.Shinji nishizono 22:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Large Additions

Fantastic. I'm still reading it over, but so far whomever the responsible parties are have my thanks. 207.161.3.28 03:52, 24 July 2006 (UTC)Matt

[edit] Jin Kazama

Even though it correctly states that Jin Kazama utilises Mishima Style Fighting Karate in Tekken 3, maybe it should be noted that Jin can be seen (partially) performing Tekki Shodan in one of the Tekken 3 intro sequences. 87.51.226.214 10:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Linkspam

I just cleaned out about 12 links from the External Links section. Several of these look legit at first but some turn out to be web pages for local dojos, which is not appropriate. Others don't seem to have any significant information that would be of use. This needs to be done frequently here; spam does tend to accumulate. Mangojuicetalk 13:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed the links to the ISKF and to something called martialarm.com (which seems to exist mostly as advertising for martial arts supplies). In my reading of the Wikipedia external links guidelines, the ISKF link is not suitable for the article, as it proscribes "links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services." The ISKF website, aside from advertising 2 dubious claims on the front page, is little more than a limited dojo list. One dubious claim is that Mr. Funakoshi authored the dojo kun. All evidence indicates that it was authored by Mr. Nakayama in the 1950s. The second questionable claim is that the ISKF has 50,000 members. As a member of the ISKF for more than 9 years, it's my best guess that the ISKF is comprised of less than 300 clubs (including college clubs). Even assuming a membership of 100 students per club, this would give them less than 30K members. The true membership numbers are probably much lower. Since every other link to a Shotokan karate organization (even those with far greater memberships than the ISKF, and websites that include much more information) was removed, I suppose the ISKF link should be too.

I added back the link to 24fightingchickens.com. It meets every requirement for inclusion in the Wikipedia external links guidelines, has been online for more than 10 years and has gained a reputation as the most comprehensive Shotokan information site on the web, doesn't promote a parochial point of view (as most other Shotokan websites are prone to do) since it allows free discussion of every article by anyone who cares to participate, includes not only a thorough digest of all the English-language research in the Shotokan curriculum but a fair amount of original research by a recognized authority on Shotokan (who speaks Japanese and lived and trained in Japan for 2 years). Jayess

Thanks, your work was more attentive than mine. Basically, we should not link to shotokan sites that are selling anything, but only to ones that legitimately provide information we can't get into on Wikipedia. Mangojuicetalk 17:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I agree that the link to all the dojos should be removed (although a page listing karate organizations would not be out of the question I suppose) I think that 50,000 is a reasonable number for ISKF membership. I think there are many more than 300 clubs. There might be about 300 in the US, but there are also many clubs overseas, in the strangest ares. Trinidad for example, has many more dojos than you would expect. (I think its 6 on the ISKF website, but the list is not complete by any means). I have cleaned out linkspam several times already. Would it be possible to get the link section only, under semi-protection?RogueNinja 16:38, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
    • There is no feature currently for semiprotecting (or full-protecting) parts of articles: it's all or nothing. Nope, we just have to watch carefully and revert additions. I'm somewhat of the opinion that we don't need external links at all here -- thoughts? Mangojuicetalk 18:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
      • I concur. There is really no need for external hyperlinks. RogueNinja 22:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dojo Kun

It is notable to mention that many dojos recite the Dojo Kun (usually in Japanese and English) during closing lineup. This is often led by the sempai, who will say a line and the rest of the students will repeat it in unison. I'm not too familiar with Wikipedia so if anyone cares to add this (and has the time to look up the proper spellings of the Japanese phrases) go right ahead.

_Dojo Kun_

Seek perfection of character!

Be faithful!

Endeavor!

Respect others!

Refrain from violent behaviour!


At out dojos we use "Endeavor to excell" I'll try and get the Japanese for the page 142.161.176.198 22:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)Matt

The current version of the dojo kun (shown below) is not to my knowledge correct.

  1. Hitotsu, jinkaku kansei ni tsutomuro koto.
     First, seek perfection of character.
  2. Hitotsu, makoto no michi wo mamoru koto.
     First, defend the path of truth.
  3. Hitotsu, doryoku no seishin o yashinau koto.
     First, strive to excel.
  4. Hitotsu, reigi o omonzuru koto.
     First, be courteous.
  5. Hitotsu, kekki no yu o imashimuru koto.
     First, refrain from violence.

The dojo kun should read;

   1. Exert oneself in the perfection of character
   2. Be faithful and sincere
   3. Cultivate the spirit of pereverance
   4. Respect propriety
   5. Refrain from impetuous and violent behaviour

This is the kun my dojo has always used and the version used by the JKAS (see [1])

It seems to me that the different dojo kun are different translations of the same Japanese. Has anyone got an authoritative translation e.g. from a book by Gichin Funakoshi?? simonthebold 09:39, 4 September 2006 (UTC) Insertformulahere

[edit] Designation of karate as "superior Japanese martial art"

Referring to the "common terms" section, I would appreciate an explanation for why the translation of the characters that represent karate was changed to "superior japanese martial arts". Here is a well-regarded article that explains the commonly-accepted translation of the word: What is Karate

[edit] Sorry

I didnt mean to delete most of the article, and I didnt even realize thats what happened. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RogueNinja (talk • contribs) 18:18, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Enpi

Someone (I dont know how to move page), should move this to empi. eNpi is an elbow strike, eMpi is the correct name of the kata. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RogueNinja (talk • contribs) 18:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

Fixed.Peter Rehse 01:32, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

There is no distinction between the "em" and "en" sound in spoken Japanese. "Empi" and "Enpi" are exactly the same word. The choice of written character is what distinguishes the word for elbow from the word for swallow. Shinji nishizono 22:34, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I suggest the articles Enpi and Empi be merged.Peter Rehse 04:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Promotion and some changes

  • Promoted the article to a B class
  • fixed a few broken links
  • conversion to inline references (wikipedia does not like external links embedded in the article)
  • ensuring that links are referenced only once.
  • external links trimmed
  • see also trimmed
  • The section on rank system was too long (kyu grade belt colors are trivial)

I didn't change but I also think Common terms is a bit long but could be kept (perhaps changing it to common terms specific to Shotokan karate).

Hope this helpsPeter Rehse 01:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Common Terms

Shouldn't this section belong to karate? Kihon is called kihon in every school of karate. Lelkesa 15:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major Styles of Karate

Hello, I have created a template with the seven major Karate styles, and added it to the page. I hope that is okay, I would suggest the last statement in the introductory paragraph be removed since the information is in the template. Regards, Grahamwild 14:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

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