Talk:Shot heard 'round the world
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[edit] World War One
Interesting little article. But, from my UK perspective i somehow associate 'a shot heard around the world' as the murder of archduke whatever (ferdinand?) of Austria, which started world war one. Sandpiper
- After a little googling I found out that others share this perspective. The Times of Zambia uses it here: http://www.times.co.zm/news/viewnews.cgi?category=8&id=1110179227, but...Emerson came up with the phrase almost 80 years before the archduke was assassinated, and (for what it's worth) google shows the phrase receives about 500-1000 times fewer hits refering to Ferdinand than to Lexington and Concord. The phrase has also been used to describe other assassinations. Still...I think if someone can come up with a good source that compares the usage of the phrase for the two war-related events, this alternate meaning should be in the article. The fact that the later meaning is more prevalent in the UK is really interesting! Flying Jazz 03:47, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- I was still thinking about this today and came to the conclusion that maybe in some dimly remembered lesson about the american war we might have been read the poem. However, i stick to my immediate reaction, when I saw the link in the american revolution article, WW1 was what came to mind. No doubt people have taken a very memorable image and used it for all sorts of things. An Americanocentric view would obviously be much more likely to give it its original meaning. But might be possible to collect other events it has been used for. It could have been used as a book title. Don't recall exactly how I heard it used. Maybe it'll keep bugging me and I shall think of something else. Sandpiper 21:31, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- It would seem you're not the only one who associates it with the Great War. That was the phrase I remember being taught as part of High School history in Australia. There are also WWI websites that refer to the same context [[1]] ~~Brother William 28th April 2006 05:30 (UTC)
- I was still thinking about this today and came to the conclusion that maybe in some dimly remembered lesson about the american war we might have been read the poem. However, i stick to my immediate reaction, when I saw the link in the american revolution article, WW1 was what came to mind. No doubt people have taken a very memorable image and used it for all sorts of things. An Americanocentric view would obviously be much more likely to give it its original meaning. But might be possible to collect other events it has been used for. It could have been used as a book title. Don't recall exactly how I heard it used. Maybe it'll keep bugging me and I shall think of something else. Sandpiper 21:31, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed rewrite
After discussing the phrase with friends in the UK and Australia it seems that, despite the Emerson origin of the poem, outside of the US the phrase "the shot heard round the world" is more associated with World War 1 rather than the Revolutionary War (many were not even aware of the association with RW in the first place). I'm proposing to rewrite the article with a view to showing more on the international usage as well as the US one. Alternatively I could re-activate the disambiguation page and write a seperate article in a similar vein to the Assasination in Sarajevo page. ~~Brother William 3rd May 2006 00:12 (UTC)
- I like the idea of showing more about the usage worldwide, but I think doing this in a disambiguation page would be a mistake. This is an opportunity for Wikipedia to teach different things to different readers in one article. I agree that the current article has big problems. It lumps both sports and Ferdinand's assasination into an "Other Uses" section, and I don't think that is appropriate. My suggestions: I hope that you divide up the article into sections in a more appropriate way in your rewrite, I hope you include some other notable assasinations besides Ferdinand's where the phrase has been used, and hopefully add more references. I hope you try to get some input about usage of the phrase from sources that are neither American nor from Commonwealth countries. This would truly represent an international perspective. It is possible that cultures with historically strong British ties would be more likely to embrace a non-Emerson usage and teach that usage to their children. Of course, it should be possible for the article itself to not be Americanocentric and still be about a phrase that originated in an Americanocentric hymn. Flying Jazz 08:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] References
- Original research is strictly frowned upon and against Wikipedia policy. Also, this site needs some help with sources and citation. (Looks like it hasn't been touched in awhile though). Colonel Marksman 00:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
- You are right that original research is frowned upon. What part of the present article constitutes original research? Flying Jazz 08:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Removed extreme minority sports usage
I removed the basketball, soccer, and cyberathlete references. None of these have invaded and persisted in the culture of the particular sport like the baseball and golf usage. Flying Jazz 05:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- I returned the soccer reference - it is a VERY common usage in the soccer world when referring to Caligiuri's goal. I agree on the other two, especially the "cyberathlete" reference, which is far too niche. - RPIRED 20:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Modern usage
I've added the reference to the most notable use of the phrase with reference to Dick Cheney. If you google "Shot heard 'round the world" +cheney you get over 14,000 hits.--Brother William 13:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The Shot at Concord not Lexington
It seems that it is quite popular to say the shot heard round the world was at Lexington, but this is simply not true. The shot heard round the world was in Concord at the North Bridge. The shot it's referencing was the first shot fired by a colonial militiaman that killed a British Soldier. The statue that the poem is on is on one side of the bridge, while the grave of that British Soldier is on the other side of the bridge. The poem mentions the bridge, the farmer and is called the Concord Hymm. I think the article should be clearer in saying which shot is the actual shot heard round the world, and then mention the phrase being attributed to the Lexington shot as being a common misconception. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Noldrin (talk • contribs) 25 June 2006 (UTC)
- The Concord Hymn is not about one farmer killing one British Soldier with one shot. The plural "the embattled farmers" fired "the shot." The issue of Emerson's usage vs popular usage seems to be addressed by the current version of the article. I think that labelling the popular usage (the first Lexington shot) a "misconception" would be too much of an academic POV because I think that's what the phrase means to very many people. It would be a misconception if people thought that this was what Emerson meant. Please take a closer look at the relevant parts of the article. Flying Jazz 14:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Figurative language
This article is just insulting to the reader. The shot wasn't really heard around the world? Shocking! Some guy 01:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest that this article is just fine. While it may be true that the "shot" wasn't "heard" in places not proximal to the battle, the use of figurative language, especially within poetry, it not only normal and acceptable, but also recognized as demonstrative of the maturity of the writer. In this case, regardless of the underlying "facts" the phrase accurately describes the net effects of the battle, regardless of the various ways it might be interpreteted. The very validity of the phrase is only enhanced by the fact it has been pirated in so many other venues. There is nothing in the article that isn't adequately factual for inclusion. Wood Artist 04:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Tagged for tone
"While it is true that "the pen is mightier than the sword" (and this anomaly is proof), it is also true that the first shots of the American Revolution, though not "heard ‘round the world", were the first in a war for freedom that, ever since and forevermore, will be written in blood on the hearts of every man, woman, and child." The above is a prime example of an extremely non-encyclopedic tone that persists throughout the article, and definitely needs to be attended to. Tozoku 20:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
