Talk:Shinkansen

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WikiProject Echo has identified Shinkansen as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Japanese language Wikipedia.

This article is part of WikiProject Trains in Japan, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to rail transport in Japan. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

This page has been cited as a source by a media organization. See the 2006 press source article for details. The citation is in: Jerzy Pawleta. "Super szybkim pociągiem w przyszłość", Gazeta Wyborcza, 2006-03-18.

Contents 1 Discrepancy between this and Yellow Doctor page 2 Bullet train 3 Merge with article high speed rail 4 Repoint the "Bullet train" redirect? 5 Purpose of safety barriers on platforms 6 Train in Chris Sawyer's Locomotion 7 Conventional Rail in Picture 8 Sanrio 9 223mph? 10 Shinkansen technology outside Japan 11 Speed Discrepancies

[edit] Discrepancy between this and Yellow Doctor page

In this article it says that the yellow doctor trains do not run at night, but on the main article for them it says they do. Obviously this is contradictory and should be corrected.

I edited the Doctor Yellow article to clarify that Doctor Yellow runs take place at night, and what does not take place at night is passenger service. Fg2 07:05, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Is ???? the correct translation of shinkansen? --Ed Poor

Not sure what you mean by ????, but the translations / explanations are correct.

Anyone know what series the train on the photo is? I'm no good at numbers unless they're actually written in big letters, but it seems to be a "100" series. I took the photo in April 2002 at Fukuyama (San'yo line). Ianb

Looks like a 0 Series to me -- look at DAJ Fossett's site below for the comprehensive list. --Morven 19:36, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I think you're right, thanks. Ianb

A Google search of English articles finds 59700 cites of Shinkansen and 590 of "Sinkansen". There is thus no need to place extra junk in the first paragraph; see [[1]]. Jpatokal 04:11, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I have let it stand, but the way the first paragraph is written makes it sound as though standard gauge was first introduced in Japan in 1964. Maybe someone can reword this to make it clearer? Dave Fossett 22:00 (JST) 18 Jul 2005

shinkansen is a type of bullet train in japan. duh!

[edit] Bullet train

As far as I remember, Japanese bullet trains do not stand for the bullet trains for all of the world.

This article is so messed up. Half the time, it's talking about Japanese bullet trains & its service areas. The other half is the list of other countries' bullet trains.

We need to have the bullet train article & Shinkansen article separate. (Wikimachine 02:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

I know of no other country than Japan where high-speed trains are regularly referred to as "bullet trains", and I don't see the article using the term for anything other than the Shinkansen. The TGV is the TGV, the ICE is the ICE, the AVE is the AVE, the KTX is the KTX, none of them are bullet trains. Jpatokal 12:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Certainly the Shinkansen are most often correlated with the name "bullet train," but definitely don't have a monopoly on the name. In particular, HST's that are under development are often referred to as "bullet trains," especially in print media. Try a Google News search and you'll find all sorts of projects being called "bullet trains." The Shinkansen get priority because they were first, and arguably most successful. - Sekicho 15:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

"I know of no other country than Japan where high-speeded..."

Jpatokal, you don't have a statistics on that. Also, the word "bullet train" refers to any high speed passenger trains, according to princeton's web dictionary (source: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+bullet+train&btnG=Google+Search).

Those ICE, AVE, KTX, and Japanese Shinkansen are all bullet trains, buddy. Or else, this would be called Shinkansen in English (like Sushi in English) and no such word as bullet train would have been created.

Look at Encarta's article on bullet trains. Does it say Shinkansen? Just because it was the first does not mean that the entire category is called so in that name in that specific language. For example, just because the Chinese invented the paper does not mean that they are called paper in Chinese dialect. (Wikimachine 22:04, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

Here's some statistics for you. I did a Google search on "X bullet train" (with quotes to make it one phrase), and I get:

41,600 for shinkansen.bullet.train

347 for ktx.bullet.train

186 for tgv.bullet.train

52 for ave.bullet.train

33 for ice.bullet.train

In other words, the Shinkansen is known as a bullet train over two orders of magnitude more often than any other high-speed train. Also, if you look at incoming links for "Bullet train", they're nearly all coming in from Japanese articles, cartoons and comics.

And I don't understand what you are trying to say in your last two paragraphs. The article is under Shinkansen because that's the official and most common name. But the Japanese came up with the term "bullet train" and, as you can see from the data above, it's still used often enough for the Shinkansen to make it a sensible redirect. Jpatokal 02:45, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Just because IBM ThinkPad has been sold for the longest and has sold the most (15 million units) does not mean that it is THE name for laptops. Just because you search online for "laptop", and, since English language is an international language, "laptop" comes out the most, not "laptop" in other languages, doesn't mean that "laptop" should be used in all languages as the word that stands for laptop computer/notebook.

Nobody put it as the official name, and this is in Japanese language. Japanese is not the international language, and I've never heard of the word "Shinkansen" in my life. (Wikimachine 14:58, 17 May 2006 (UTC))

I still don't understand what you are trying to say. What do you want to do then? Delete the article entirely!? Jpatokal 01:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with article high speed rail

Bullet train is a word for a train that runs on a high speed rail. None of my friends know anything about the word "Shinkansen".

It seems that the Japanese POV editors are desperately attempting to promote the fact that Japan is a leader in the high speed rail technology, and it pioneered the field the first.

But, that still doesn't mean that you people can do such thing.

If you want to have a separate article about Japan's high speed rail, then make this only for Japan's Shinkansen line.

Ok? But, rest of the article must be merged into the article high speed rail.

• Disagree with merge -- IMNSHO, Shinkansen means exactly what it means: "New Railway" and it refers only to that new railway (which falls into the larger, more-general category of high-speed rail). Atlant 18:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Disagree with merge -- Shinkansen is the specific high-speed train used in Japan, and deserves its own article just as much as the TGV and InterCity Express do. High-speed rail is the survey article for the overall concept. David Arthur 18:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose merging --- Well worth an individual article. Fg2 19:31, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose merging and redirect bullet train should still point at this page --Asterion ^{talk to me} 19:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose merge and redirect --- The Shinkansen article definitely ought to be kept separate from the High-speed rail article, which is just a general article summarizing the various high-speed rail systems (including the shinkansen) around the world. DAJF 22:30, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose merge for reasons stated above; this entire argument just reflects the increasingly silly level of Korean-Japanese enmity on Wikipedia these days. (See Talk:Japanese people for another side of it) - Sekicho 00:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose. What Sekicho said. And I'm still waiting for Wikimachine to say what content he's referring to, as I still don't see any of this mysterious non-Shinkansen stuff in the article. Jpatokal 01:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your participation.

[edit] Repoint the "Bullet train" redirect?

2nd proposal: Make the redirect in bullet train to the article high speed rail.

(forgot to put this) (Wikimachine 19:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC))

• I agree with this second proposal. Either rename the article "Bullet train" (because that is the English name, or change the bullet train redirect to Highspeed rail. By no means Shinkansen should be the title of an English article unless the content is directly related to the specific rail system in Japan and isn't covering general info about the bullet trains or high speed trains. This article seems to be exclusively about Japan's rail system, so redirecting Bullet Train to high speed rail makes much more sense. Masterhatch 22:38, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

• Disagree with redirect (copied my vote from the High Speed Rail article where this vote is duplicated - "bullet train" is normally taken to refer to the trains running on the Japanese high-speed network. I have never heard of any other nation's train network being called by that name. The current article for "bullet trains"/"Shinkansen" is very good and much more appropriate for the term than this more generalised & global article. Canderra 23:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

(On Canderra's comment, I would like to say that my friends have heard of the word bullet train, but never Shinkansen. Me neither. (Wikimachine 23:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)))

That is beside the point, they are just two names for the same thing (e.g. Germany and Duestchland), which is why one redirects to the other (precisely to get over the common problem of differing regional names). The proposal stated however is to redirect the term "bullet train" to a different definition, specifically that of high speed rail in general. I believe this is incorrect as the term "bullet train" refers to the Japanese high speed trains and the information displayed in the Shinkansen article, not the information displayed in the high speed rail article. Canderra 00:39, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Sekicho for voting. Canderra, remember that the word bullet train stands not only for the Shinkansen line but all high speed trains in general. (Wikimachine 01:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC))

I have done some research (some similar to that already done, some different), and so beg to differ. A Google search produces results which almost entirely refer to the Japanese trains (or occasionally, designs modelled specifically on the Japanese trains). The Merriam Webster dictionary states of the bullet train: "a high-speed passenger train especially of Japan" and the Encarta Dictionary states "fast train in Japan: a high-speed passenger train in Japan". Additionally, in the actual high speed rail article you wish to redirect to, the only mention of the term "bullet train" is in the title of a book specifically about the Japanese railway network. I cannot even find the term "bullet train" in any of Wikipedia's train articles other than the Shinkansen.

The common English translation of Shinkansen is indeed "bullet train", as almost every source I can find calls the Japanese train system that (either instead of or along with the proper Japanese name "Shinkansen"). Performing a Google search for "Bullet Train" along with the names "TGV" or "Eurostar" however produces very few results which aren’t referring to the Japanese system when they use the term. I could not identify any sources specifically calling the TGV, Eurostar or ICE "The Bullet Train". Finally, I know this has already been done, but to wrap my point up: My Google search for the quoted term ""Shinkansen bullet train" produced 41,500 results compared to the search for "TGV bullet train" which produced only 195 results and "Eurostar bullet train" which produced only 157 results. I maintain therefore that "Bullet train" is internationally known as an English name specifically for the Japanese High Speed Train Network and should therefore direct to an article specifically about that network and not about High Speed Trains in general. Canderra 02:44, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

• Agree with redirect. However, I believe Wikimachine needs to stop using his/her friends' ignorance of high-speed rail systems to justify screwing up a good article about Japan's. Anyone who has visited Japan or knows anything about railways knows what Shinkansen are; heck, it was one of the first 20 or so words I learned in Japanese. - Sekicho 00:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose. As the stats above show, people (and articles) looking for "bullet train" are overwhelmingly likely to be looking for the Shinkansen. I would, however, be OK with a "Bullet train redirects here; see High speed train for other high speed train systems" line up top. Jpatokal 01:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey Jpatokal. The reason why I proposed the merging of this article with the other one was not really because I wanted to but I was upset with the fact that the term bullet train was directed to here. So I was thinking that bullet train is part of the high speed rail, supposing that the article Shinkansen is about bullet trains in general.

I don't intend to delete this article at all.

Additionally, Stats above are about either merging the article into the high speed rail or changing the name to bullet train (this is what I proposed before I knew that there was an article called high speed rail).

As for now in this proposal of changing the redirect, the ratio is 2:2 (including your vote).

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Please take a time to reconsider your votes. (Wikimachine 02:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC))

Wouldn't it make more sense to use the English word "bullet train" for the article title then? I mean, this is the "English" version of wikipedia. From what i have read, "Shinkansen" is a mere translation of "bullet train". Time and time again on Wikipedia the English name is used over the local names. Why should this article be any different? Masterhatch 05:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Shinkansen is not only the official and more exact name, but more popular as well: it beats "bullet train" on Google by 1.5M to 950k. Also note that every single other Wikipedia language version has opted for some variant of "Shinkansen" as the name. Jpatokal 07:02, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, you haven't read correctly. Shinkansen means "New Trunk Line[s]" and is almost never literally translated into English. Go to Tokyo Station and the platforms say (in English) "Yamanote Line" and "Sobu Line" but "Tokaido Shinkansen." The Japanese version of "bullet train" is dangan ressha, but that term was only really used in the WWII era when the first high-speed line was being planned. All in all, "bullet train" is a general term that does not specifically refer to the Shinkansen and therefore that title should not be used for this article. - Sekicho 10:36, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

If Shinkansen does not mean bullet train and means "New Trunk Line", there is no reason for the term bullet train to redirect to Shinkansen article. That would be the only reason why the term bullet train is redirect to the Shinkansen article. Additionally, we're not talking about how much more popular Shinkansen is. We are talking about changing the redirect on the article bullet train to the high-speed rail article. (Wikimachine 12:22, 18 May 2006 (UTC))

• Oppose for reasons that have already been stated by others. Atlant 12:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose proposal to change redirect because I believe that most people that search for "Bullet train" on Wikipedia (or Google or anywhere else) are looking for information on the Japanese bullet trains (i.e. shinkansen) rather than high-speed trains in general. DAJF 12:17, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Please reconsider your vote. That is the same logic as searching the term "laptop" online and since people are searching for Japanese laptops the most, the word "laptop" comes out in Japanese. When people search for the term bullet train, they are wanting the high speed trains. (Wikimachine 12:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC))

oops, sorry, didn't see this discussion before just redirecting bullet train. i thought bullet train was a common noun, Shinkansen being the proper noun, as in the florida bullet train, gauteng bullet train (and here) london bullet train california bullet train korean bullet train even the coors bullet train and the lego bullet train Appleby 21:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Purpose of safety barriers on platforms

The Safety section implies that safety barriers have been introduced at stations to prevent suicides, but I don't believe this is the case at all. Safety barriers are used at stations such as Sakudaira (and Shin-Kobe) where trains pass through non-stop right next to the platform rather than on a central through track. DAJF 11:56, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Doubtless they serve both purposes, although ordinary passenger safety is probably the more-important.

Atlant 12:08, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Train in Chris Sawyer's Locomotion

There is a train in Chris Sawyer's Locomotion called "Shinkansen Series 0 Powered Carriage", taken from Chris Sawyer Software Development, I've seen the Shinkansen Series 0 Powered Carriage, but you need the product for it (add-in not supplied with Chris Sawyer's Locomotion). --RCT Loco Wiki | Talk 22:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conventional Rail in Picture

Why do the pictures here show conventional tracks, and not the maglev ones? I thought they "couldn't be integrated with existing infrastructure". These three technologies look very different: the last two are from Maglev train, the first is from this article. While I'm here, is anyone able to explain why they are un-intgrateable? martianlostinspace 15:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Shinkansen is a standard gauge plain old steel rail system, not maglev. As the maglev article explains, maglev systems need special magnetic track to keep the train floating above it. Jpatokal 20:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Huh? That's intrigueing, I thought Shinkansen was a maglev train. Then why would there be a section on Japanese maglev in the maglev train article, or would that just happen to all be research? martianlostinspace 08:16, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The Shinkansen is not maglev. The JR network (which runs the Shinkansen system) has experimented with maglev technology, and there's a picture of one of those experimental trains in the maglev article. adamrice 14:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting me. I get confuzzeld, confused and somehow confussed a bit, begin to pismonounce my worms and my vails (apologies to the Two Ronnies). My mind somehow wobbles (apologies to Beatrix Potter).martianlostinspace 19:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sanrio

An intresting bit of trivia is that the Sanrio company has a line of kawaii themed (an apparently official) Shinkansen things. English link Japanese link Calicore 07:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 223mph?

Something is wrong. This article says the FASTECH 360 only does 223. This article says otherwise.martianlostinspace 13:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The Fastech's speed in service will be 360 km/h. Exceptional speeds achieved in testing aren't very relevant for the main article. Jpatokal 06:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shinkansen technology outside Japan

found this on Japan times today: Monday, Jan. 29, 2007 Shinkansen-based trains debut in China HANGZHOU, China (Kyodo) High-speed trains modeled after the sophisticated Hayate East Japan Railway Co. bullet train made debut runs on Chinese rails Sunday. http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070129a3.html Grmf

[edit] Speed Discrepancies

According to this article on Japan Today the TGV just achieved 574.8 km/hr on a test run which is a record for any sort train functioning on conventional rails, which I believe the Shinkansen is one of as well(The video can be found here). That means there needs to be some editing done to the first paragraph of this article which states that the Shinkansen has touched 581 km/hr which would contradict the Japan Today article. Hope someone will be able to make that change . Almost forgot to add. Apparently its the Maglev_train that touched the figure of 581.

Love Bioskope 00:53, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

This article correctly mentions the shinkansen speed records of 443 km/h for conventional rail and 581 km/h for maglev trainsets. I don't think the wording here is particularly misleading or needs editing. DAJF 01:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)