Talk:Shigechiyo Izumi

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What do you mean if something doesn't scan, VeryVerily? There may have been someone else we don't know about that passed age 120. --65.73.0.137

I mean the use of proven as you had it is not grammatical. Note the text said, the second-longest documented lifespan in the world, less only than that of Calment, meaning it's the only documented lifespan less than that of Calment. The qualifier about documented/proven does not need to be stated twice. -- VV 21:34, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

1. User 65 is going around, editing everything as if Guinness were "GOD" and no one else can say anything apart from them. First of all, User 65, who never contributed to this discourse before Oct 17 or answered on the discussion board, seems to have a delusional "God complex" that because he says something, it's right.

Well guess what, did it ever occur to you to consider BOTH SIDES of an issue BEFORE making a decision? If not, then you have a problem.

The FACTS of the matter are that the Shigechiyo Izumi case was disputed, even by the man who originally put it forward. The only reason that it hasn't been pulled is that in Japan, it is more important to "save face" than to fix the problem. The news article from 1986 shows as much:

Copyright 1986 Kyodo News Service Japan Economic Newswire

February 22, 1986, Saturday

LENGTH: 178 words

HEADLINE: MINISTER EXPRESSES CONDOLENCES OVER DEATH OF OLDEST MAN

DATELINE: TOKYO, FEB. 22

BODY: ISAMU IMAI, MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELFARE, EXPRESSED CONDOLENCES SATURDAY OVER THE DEATH OF SHIGECHIYO IZUMI, LISTED AS THE WORLD'S OLDEST MAN IN THE GUINNESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS. IZUMI DIED OF PNEUMONIA FRIDAY AT THE AGE OF 120 AT HIS HOME ON SOUTHERN JAPANESE ISLAND OF TOKUNOSHIMA, KAGOSHIMA PREFECTURE. IMAI SENT A CABLE TO IZUMI'S FAMILY EXPRESSING DEEP CONDOLENCES. HIS ACTION WAS CONSIDERED TO MEAN THAT THE HEALTH AND WELFARE MINISTRY RECOGNIZED IZUMI AS THE OLDEST MAN IN THE WORLD. SOME QUARTERS IN JAPAN LAST YEAR EXPRESSED DOUBTS AS TO WHETHER IZUMI WAS REALLY 120 YEARS OLD.THE HEALTH AND WELFARE MINISTRY AT THE TIME REFUSED TO MAKE ANY OFFICIAL COMMENT. IZUMI'S DEATH LEFT INE TSUGAWA, 110, AS THE OLDEST LIVING PERSON IN JAPAN. SHE LIVES IN TOKUSHIMA, SHIKOKU ISLAND. HER OLDEST SON SHOICHI, 67, TOLD HER SATURDAY MORNING THAT SHE IS THE OLDEST PERSON IN JAPAN BECAUSE OF IZUMI'S DEATH. SHE WAS QUOTED AS SAYING THAT, "I SEE AND THANK YOU." HER FAMILY MEMBERS SAID SHE HAD RICE GRUEL AND SWEET POTATOES FOR BREAKFAST SATURDAY MORNING.

LOAD-DATE: Load-Date=February 22, 1986

So, User 65, did you do your homework? Do you understand Japanese culture? Do you understand that we haven't dropped the case ONLY because Guinness hasn't pulled it, and Guinness said they would drop it if the Ministry of Health and Welfare did. But they haven't done so, because it would have reflected badly on Japan and the family. Instead, they undertook to clean up the database to avoid the problem in the future. Thus, Shigechiyo Izumi is historically important as a transitional figure between longevity myth and proven age. It's like baseball and the batting title: research shows that in 1910, Nap Lajoie batted .383 and Ty Cobb, .382, but baseball hasn't changed the record. The Cooperstown story is now admitted to by a myth, but they haven't changed the location. What they did do, however, is allow a discussion that the "facts" are only presented as "historic representations of what was then thought," but wouldn't be accepted if presented today as new information. Hence, it is important to asterisk or footnote these mistakes.

In the Izumi case, he was probably 105. In any case, the case is disputed. Claiming that the case is not disputed by reputable sources is unscholarly, and obsessively delusional on "authority."

In a final point, User 65 has plagiarized the work of others on Wikipedia, including copying verbatim Guinness quotes (some of which are now irrelevant). I myself have been plagiarized (the list of people who almost made it to 110 comes from my lists posted as www.grg.org). If this failure to consider the viewpoints of others continues, I move that this user be barred from future editing rights.

131.96.2.208 16:02, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Problem with this sentence: Some Japanese experts, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested that he was actually born in 1880 (see talk page for citation).

As suggested, the citation isn't in the discussion page. No where in the pasted article above mentions specific birth of 1880, just that it is disputed. User:NealIRC 14 August 2006 17:11 UTC.

Alright, someone fixed it. -NealIRC