Talk:Sherry

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"fortified with spirits..." -- clarification needed. spirits currently takes the reader to Alcoholic beverage. Is this what is meant? -- Tarquin 17:21 Dec 21, 2002 (UTC)

Replaced spirits with neutral spirits, which is more correct. Dogface 02:50, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I always thought it was brandy - will check. Justinc 10:42, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

changed to brandy - Oxford companion says that is the case (if in a roundabout way); must get the sherry book.

Contents 1 "Confusing"? 2 merging 3 brandy de jerez 4 Not right volume of teh casks. 5 But essential information is missing 6 Expansion required 7 "Fleming" 8 Etymology / Persian 9 Merging "sweet" and "cream"

[edit] "Confusing"?

The paragraph I'll copy / paste below is seriously un-Wiki. One editor should not be contradicting or "correcting" the work of a previous editor in the article- someone needs to reword this to stop it sounding like the work of two people who don't agree. Patch86 13:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

" The wording here is confusing. There are two ways in which to produce fortified wines. The Port method, where the fermetation is stopped half way through fermentation by fortifying the wine, so not all the sugars are allowed to turn into alcohol and so leaving a sweet wine. Then the Sherry method where the fortification takes places after the fermentation, so all natural sherries are in fact dry. Any sweetness is applied later. "

Done, merged Gavinuk's comments with the rest of the intro. Hashashin 17:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] merging

most of the info from the 4 variant pages has been transferred to the sherry page but these pages can be expanded on. if (or when) the sherry variant pages contain enough in formation to justify their own pages the variants section should be taken out of the main page. Brinkost 01:17, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I propose that we remove the information that duplicates the varietal pages, but leave the 'Varieties' section there with links to the varietal pages rather than remove the section from the main page completely. Hashashin 02:44, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

There's currently a suggestion that the palo cortado and oloroso pages be merged into this one. At one point all the varietal information was contained within this page and I found it cluttered the sherry page while limiting the amount of varietal information. Having separate varietal pages makes it easy to provide serving suggestions, sub-varieties, examples, etc for each variety, which would be awkward on the main sherry page. I recently added a lot of specific information to the palo cortado page and I would like to expand on the oloroso page some more as well. I don't think it would be an improvement to remove those pages and merge them into this one, but I'm curious to hear the argument in favor of merging. Hashashin 13:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Howdy! My primary motivation in suggesting a merge was to limit the number of wine-related stubs in favor of more complete articles per discussions over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wine. After looking at the palo cortado and oloroso articles, I was concerned about this ability to develop into more then just stubs. However I will freely admit that I am not an expert at Sherry's and will certainly bow to another editor's expertize in this matter. If you can expand those articles to hopefully at least Start status, that would be fantastic. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 18:48, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand your point (for example the 'sweet sherry' and 'cream sherry' articles weren't really going anywhere), but I do think the remaining varietal pages can (and should) be developed further. I guess I'm not sure at what point one of the varietal pages deserves to have the 'stub' tag removed. The Fino, Manzanilla, and Amontillado pages have graduated, I think the Palo Cortado page is a bit more than a stub at the moment (but I'm not sure), and I intend to build up the Oloroso page a bit more and add some images to all of them if I can. What differentiates a 'start' from a 'stub'? Hashashin 19:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

This page explains all that sort of thing. mikaul 09:46, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that, mikaul. I've added some additional sections to the sherry varietal pages, and based on the Assessment page I think I can move the palo cortado and oloroso pages up to 'start' status at this point. Any objections? Hashashin 18:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Since there are no objections, I'll go ahead and move palo cortado and oloroso up to 'start' and remove the merge tags. Hashashin 15:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Definitely start. Great work and thank you! Agne^Cheese/^Wine 18:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] brandy de jerez

Brandy de Jerez redirects here, but there's no explanation of the term. Am I right in assuming that it's something different from Sherry? Anyhow, someone please add an explanation or remove the redirect if it's inappropriate.

"Brandy de Jerez" is brandy from Jerez, not sherry. It would be more appropriate to redirect to the Brandy article unless a more specific one exists. Hashashin 04:29, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not right volume of teh casks.

The casks are not 600 liter but special made and contains 555 liter and are called "pipe". The tree sort are right.

Can you provide a reference for this? Most of the material I can find either says the casks are 600 liters, or is is vague about the size, implying that it may change from one bodega to another. Hashashin 09:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

The wooden casks, or botas as they are called have varied widely in size, capacity and type depending on bodega conditions and storage space. These days the most preferred and most widely used type is one made of American oak of 600 litres capacity. gavinuk www.madaboutsherry.com Gavinuk 21:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] But essential information is missing

How do one drink it? Right now I consume it like 10 degrees C from large wine glass. But I don't really know it is right way?

Let's not forget that sherry is a white wine and the same rules apply when it comes to serving. A Fino and Manzanilla tastes much better if it has been chilled, but don't freeze them. Sherries with more body need only to be slightly chilled and the lovely dessert sherries are best served at chilled too. There is no need to warm any type of sherry. gavinuk www.madaboutsherry.com Gavinuk 21:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Aha.. I have been wondering about something that is related. If I drink red wine, I get a sort of allergic reaction I think - actually I may throw up after just one glass! White wines - and sherry - no problem. How is sherry compared to red wine in this respect? If anyone knows, it would be a nice addition to the article. SWA 20:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion required

Generally, this article gives a good basic grounding in Sherry wines. I would suggest that re-working is required as the article does not go into any detail as to the production methods, history of, and market importance of the wines. There are also some factual defects: there are more than three grape varieties used in its production (although three make up almost all of the blends in most sherries); sweet sherry is not a naturally occuring type, but is blended and manufactured so after production and amontillado (and fino-amontillado), and manzanilla (and manzanilla passada), are in fact varieties of finos produced under slightly different methods. In answer to how to drink fino, chilled, but not icy and traditionally served in a 'copita', a tulip shaped glass, just slightly smaller than the ISO wine tasting glass. --russ 21:17, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

After the sherry region was attacked by phylloxera in 1894, vineyards were re-planted with just three grape varieties, Palomino Fino, Moscatel and Pedro Ximenez, these are the only grapes permitted in the production of sherry, of which 95% of sherry is made with Palomino. gavinuk Gavinuk 21:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The 'History' section has been a bit messy. I reorganized it so it's more or less in chronological order, and added a fact or two, but we should beef this section up a bit and then perhaps move it up above the 'Styles' section once it's in better shape. Hashashin 00:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Fleming"

I corrected a couple of typos here, but i'm not certain that this is the best translation of the saying; since i don't speak the language, however, i'll leave it to someone who does....i assume it wants to say something like, "Penicillin heals the sick; sherry raises the dead"? And, how do we refer to the language? Fleming links to a disambiguation page; the language is called either Flemish or Dutch, right? but i don't want to offend anyone with the wrong choice. Lindsay 19:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I fixed this; it seems that the contributor was trying to reference a popular quote attributed to Sir Alexander Fleming, rather than the Flemish. Hashashin 14:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology / Persian

The article says: ...the town's Persian name (...) was Xerex (Shariz, in Persian شريش)...
Something's wrong here:

• What does "Xerex" have to do with "Shariz" if both are supposed to be the original persian name?
• The arabic script spells sh'rish and not sh'riz.

--BjKa 11:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Good points, I'll fix that first one. Xerex is the Latin name, apparently a sononym of Shariz and a formal translation the Perso-Arabic script. Also the Moors brought the sharrish sound presumably as a corruption of the Persian pronunciation: if you know how to correct the script to read sh'riz, go ahead! mikaul 10:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The sources I'm reading usually give the Moorish/Arabic name of the town as "Sherish," (the NY Times has the most bizarre variation I've seen: "Scxherisch") and the Roman name "Seret." I've also read that before the Romans, the Phoenicians called it "Xera." Are we just referring to different transliterations of the same names? i.e. Xerex=Seret, and Shariz=Sherish? If so, I think the timeline can be clarified a little. I'm also having trouble finding references to the Rustamid dynasty's influence in Spain (their sphere was mostly Algeria) so I'm curious if anyone knows where that reference comes from. Hashashin 18:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's from two similar-sounding names which were interchangable over the centuries, but I can't find a citable source. I wonder if this section of the Jerez article is any use at all - there's no citation there either, either! - but at least there's a clear timeline. If you ever find more info, you might want to help out with the Early history section... mikaul^talk 19:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

There's some good information about the history of the Islamic empire in Spain from 711 to 1492 here, but there is no mention of the Rustamid dynasty being involved. I'm tempted to remove that reference while revising the 'history' section of this article. I think this whole "Shiraz" connection is a bit of a stretch. Hashashin 15:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I found the source of that Rustamid factoid: 143.167.21.109. He seems to have gone around inserting references to Persia in a lot of articles, I'm going to go ahead and revert this to the Moorish/Arabic reference that was there before and has references to support it. Hashashin 16:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Nice one. It's worth a look at the potted history on the DO site for a viable expresion of the various naming conventions, including a ref to a map which backed up a high court injunction in 1967 in favour of Spanish producers' right to the name. Incidentally, I think it might be nice to keep the Arabic script, assuming we can find a verifiable transliteration. mikaul^talk 17:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree, BjKa above says the Arabic script reads "sh'rish," which is consistent with the most common transliteration (Sherish). Hashashin 17:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging "sweet" and "cream"

There's no reason for these to have a page of their own, even considering their popularity in the UK for so many years. Whereas they should be a little more prominent in the article - the history section is a little wooly and fails to connect the popluarity of sweet/cream sherry with UK palettes - there is also a need to beef up the article in general. The es: version isn't much help, unfortunately. mikaul 10:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I pulled the most relevant information from the "sweet sherry" page into this article already and I think we can delete the 'sweet' and 'cream' variety pages any time. Hashashin 13:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC)