Talk:Sheffield United F.C.

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Date of review: 26 November 2006

I'm sure they were called the Blades before 1978. I was told as a kid that it had to do with the Silver Blades ice rink next door, and I'm not even sure if that's correct. Sfgreenwood 12:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Along with the series of firsts, I believe Bramall Lane was where the first floodlit football match ever mooooo

It took place on October 14th, 1878 at 7:30pm between two teams (Reds v Blues) selected by the Sheffield Football Association. The score was Reds 0 Blues 2. Over 12,000 people paid at the gates and it was estimated that around 20,000 eventually found their way into the ground.

Details taken from "The official centenary history of Sheffield United, the first 100 years" by Denis Clarebrough.

BladeSteve

Contents

[edit] United

Can someone clarify this, please? "This was the first example of any sporting club in the world calling itself 'United' (but not the first football club to be called united, as Plymouth United F.C. was formed before Sheffield United launched its football team). as it doesn't seem to make sense. Either Sheffield United was the first, or Plymouth United was. Sheffield can't be the first if someone else was. Tonywalton  | Talk 22:37, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

The above quote makes sense when read in context with the immediately preceding text in the article. The club was originally called Sheffield United Cricket Club because they played cricket. It was only later that they started to play football too. For many years it continued as a football and cricket club. Plymouth United were formed after Sheffield United Cricket Club but before the cricket club started to also play football. Therefore Sheffield United were the first sports club to use the name United but not the first football club to use that name. JeremyA (talk) 02:15, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


Congratulations to the boys !! Captain scarlet 13:21, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

This is a good place to discuss how the Sheffield United page could be made more streamlined. The whole article was/is too long and several articles were removed completely (notable players) which was long but I felt was integral to the page. Is there any part of the article which you feel is not necessary for the page? Hawksworthm 22:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

  • I've started to cleanup the history but there is still alot of trivial information in the history that needs cleaning - POV etc --212.32.102.37 17:22, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chairman

Does anybody know when Derek Dooley hands over as chairman to Terry Robinson? The sufc official site still says that Dooley is the chairman, which is why I put his name in there, but that may be out of date now. --VinceBowdren 22:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

He handed over at the end of April 2006. After the final home league match. Hawksworthm 01:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editing the Notable former players section

The players in this section are listed by the decade they made their debut for United. Please discus here if you plan to add/change this section. Remember there is already a page for all United’s past players. So, with that in mind, only add players who were highly influential in their time at the Lane (e.g. a player who played in 150+ matches, scored 100+ goals, played for many seasons, or had outstanding skill or cult status in his time at the Lane). Here’s a few all-time greats at Bramall Lane, who could be added (articles need creating first) - Jack Pickering, Fred Priest, Albert Sturgess, Harry Thickett, Fred Tunstall, Mick Whitham, Bernard Wilkinson, George Utley, Albert Cox, Harry Hooper, Stanley Fazackerley, Cec Coldwell, Harry Latham, ‘Doc’ Pace, Len Badger, Ted Hemsley, Tony Agana, Paul Stancliffe and Carl Bradshaw etc. I removed Fjørtoft from the section, because although he played for the Blades, he only spent one season with the club. Hawksworthm 21:57, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps adding Fjørtoft was a little hasty, but I don't agree with simply listing players as to when they made their debuts. Michael Brown first joined the club in December 1999 (on loan if my memory serves), and it wasn't until a couple of years later that he made his impact. Saying that he's a notable 1990s Sheffield United player is plain misleading if you ask me.
I agree about Brown, All im saying is; if we change Brown to 2000's then we will have to change a lot of the others - like Currie, Woodward, Hagen etc. Because they are only listed by debut. For instance, Hagan played most of his football for United in the 40's, while Currie and Woodward played mostly in the 70's. Its just the way the list was originally made (not by me) - it is misleading and wants changing, but if we are going to change it; they will all have to be changed. If you, or any one else has a different way of listing them (without taking up more space) - please do (but post suggestions here first so we can all comment). Maybe changing them, so it reflected the decade in which they played most of their football with United? Hawksworthm 00:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I will soon update this section by listing the players under the decade in which they played most of their matches for United. At the moment they are listed by debut and as has been pointed out - it is misleading. Brown will change to 2000's, Hagen to 1940's, Currie to 70's etc.. If anyone dosen't agree with this; please say so now. Hawksworthm 03:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
As there were no objections, I have re-listed the notable players by the decade in which they had most impact for United. As was pointed out earlier; listing players by 'debut' was misleading. I also added Albert Sturgess to the list. Hawksworthm 14:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I have added Bobby Barclay to the list. He made 231 league starts for United and had 3 England caps. Still need to create article for Fred Tunstall, who should be part of the list.Hawksworthm 01:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I propose that Tony Agana be added to the list. He was an important factor (along with Brian Deane) in United’s promotion to the First Division in 1989-90. I shall add him in a few days if there is no objections.—Hawksworthm 16:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

As there were no objections, I have now added Tony Agana to the list. —Hawksworthm 19:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I have added Fred Tunstall to the list. Between 1920 and 1932, Tunstall made a total of 437 appearances for Sheffield United and scored 129 goals. He qualifies for the list, without doubt!—Hawksworthm 02:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I propose the addition of Derek Pace to the list. Pace was a great favourite at the Lane and was a major factor in United’s revival in the late 50’s. If there are no objections; I will add him to the list in a few days.—Hawksworthm 00:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

As there were no objections, I have now added Derek Pace to the list. —Hawksworthm 21:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I have removed Dean Saunders from the list, because although he was an undoubted Legend for Wales, Derby County and Aston Villa; he only played for one season at Sheffield United, and therefore cannot really be regarded as a Legend at the club. If we include Saunders we will have to include 100’s of other players who played 42+ games for the club. If you wish to add a player to the list, please discuss here first why you think he should be added. That way we can all have the chance to comment on the proposed addition. Some players who possibly could be added are: Jack Pickering, Fred Priest, Harry Thickett, George Utley, Albert Cox, Harry Hooper, Stanley Fazackerley, Cec Coldwell, Harry Latham, Len Badger, Ted Hemsley etc. But please post your suggestions here first. —Hawksworthm 20:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Phil Jagielka played every league game for the blades in the 2004-5 season, and the 2005-6 season, and is an ever-present in the team so far this season as well. He has played 106 consecutive games for the blades, and made a total of 239 League, FA Cup and League Cup starts, and an additional 23 appearences as a sub. He has scored 19 goals, not bad as many of those matches were from defence. Surely a candidate for 2000's? I'll add him in a few days if there are no objections. Additionally, what about Paddy Kenny? He has made 196 appearences for the blades. Maybe a more contentious, but what do we think? I'll add him in a few days if there are no objections. L.J.Skinnersomething to say? 01:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Is Tonge not to be considered, with Jagielka, Kenny? As for earlier ones, I would have said Badger was notable, and what about Gilbert Reece, who was certainly a crowd favourite (and is prominent in the George Best wonder goal, failing to get a tackle in for about 30 secs). And Hemsley was a first class cricketer too (Warwicks? Worcs?) Len Allchurch? (Welsh international, as was Reece, I think) Birchenall? Good list, anyway. roundhouse 10:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
You're right of course. Whilst Tonge has been hampered by injury recently, he has started 208 games for the blade and come on as a sub in a further 17, scoring 21 goals. Monty is also only two away from his 150th start (another who came through at the same time as Tonge/Jags)

I will add Kenny, Tonge, Jagielka and Montgomery in a few days if noone objects. L.J.Skinnersomething to say? 10:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no objections to adding former players like Len Badger and Ted Hemsley and possibly Gil Reese. Of course there are many others from the early seventies that could also be added like Dearden, Scullion, Speight and Colquhoun etc. But I have resisted adding too many from any particular decade. After all it’s easy just to look into the recent past, and say a particular player should be added. Instead I think it would be better to try to keep an even amount from each decade. Some of United’s greatest players were from the early part of the 1900’s. But certainly Badger and Hemsley should be added for the 1970's. They were great full-backs for the Blades. Hawksworthm 01:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I am not keen on adding players who currently play for United. After all, that’s why the section is called ‘notable former players’. It’s basically to look back at former players that excelled (played or scored on many occasions, had outstanding skill or a cult status) when they played for the club. When Tonge, Kenny and Jags have left the club they should be added without a doubt. Also the 2000’s list should not have too many entries at the moment, after all, the decade is only in its 6th year. I hope you can see what I’m trying to say here. Hawksworthm 01:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Points taken - who knows who will be in the Jan transfer window? roundhouse 02:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
OK,

that seems fair enough Hawksworthm... The preceding comment contained scenes of a violent or sexual nature, and should not have been viewed by young children. L.J.SkinnerWOT? 02:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I propose the addition of Len Badger to the list. He made 458 appearances for United. If there are no objections; I will add him to the list in a few days. Hawksworthm 02:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

As there were no objections, I have now added Len Badger to the list. Hawksworthm 18:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I propose the addition of Jack Pickering to the list. He made 368 appearances for United over a 23 year period, and would have undoubtedly have played even more if not for World War II. If there are no objections; I will add him to the list in a few days.Hawksworthm 03:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

As there were no objections, I have now added Jack Pickering to the list. Hawksworthm 01:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I propose the addition of Cec Coldwell and Eddie Colquhoun to the list. Both made over 410 league appearances for United. If there are no objections; I will add them to the list in a few days. Hawksworthm 03:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

As there were no objections, I have now added Cec Coldwell and Eddie Colquhoun to the list. Hawksworthm 02:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I propose the addition of Simon Tracey to the list. He played played 382 games for Sheffield United. Also, the removal of Jostein Flo. He was a memorable player, but he only managed to score 18 goals in his short period with United, this hardly qualifies him for this elete group of players. I also notice he was added without proposing the addition here first. Doing so, gives us all a chance to past comment. hawksworthm 13:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with both the addition and the removal. -- roundhouse 14:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok thanks, I have now added Simon Tracey to the list and removed Jostein Flo. hawksworthm 13:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I propse the addition of Len Badger and Nudger Needham. Not many goals between them, but they were deemed worthy of the Alan Damms' print, commissioned by United's Hall of Fame. I'll add them in a few days if there are no objections. L.J.Skinnerwot|I did 03:35, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External link to official premier league site

Before this sequence of mutual reverts escalates, can we get a proper agreement on this external link. My opinion is that the link is worth including, as the site is pretty authoritative on premier league info - certainly I would rate it a more encyclopaedic link than to any fansite. --VinceBowdren 10:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

From my point of view, I think we only need a maximum of three external links in this section. Obviously the Official site should be included, and then one which links to a directory (the Dmoz directory is adequate) for all the unofficial fan sites. The stock exchange link is also worthwhile. I think we should just keep to these three, as the Sheffield United article is already beyond the maximum length. If anyone does want to add to the list, they should post here first and explain what they want to add. Hawksworthm 22:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bramall Lane Capacity

Does anyone have the official capacity of Bramall Lane? This article has been changed a few times recently, but currently states 30,975, the Bramall Lane article states 33,000. Other internet sources differ although more seem to support the larger figure (33,000; 33,000; 30,400). Apparently today 31,700 attemded [1], so the current figure in this article is likely wrong. —JeremyA 16:37, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

According to the Official match programme for the match against Liverpool (played on 19 August 2006). It states that the capacity is ‘’Almost 33,000, with extra places for disabled supporters’. But the programme fails to give an exact figure. I cannot find a figure on the official club website either. There were some empty seats at the Liverpool match. This was simply because of crowd segregation issues - which will apply to all home matches. And as you stated; other internet sources also give conflicting totals for maximun capacity at the stadium. But, the capacity was 30,975 before the ground was increased by 2,000 extra seats. So, in my opinion; the capacity should be listed as 32,975 (or left at 33,000) until the official site [2] lists the exact figure. —Hawksworthm 18:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Not very scientific, I know, but the ground "looked full" against Man United. Certainly, all home areas of the ground had sold out, although I did spot a few empty seats. Official attendence? 32,584. L.J.Skinnersomething to say? 10:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

In the 2007 Financial report for Shareholders glossy brochure produced by the club it states that Bramall Lane has 32,609 seats. This makes sense as the 33,000 figure often quoted on websites etc was only the initial estimate. Also the Man U and Man City games were both official sell outs (including restricted view seats). These attendances were 32,584 and 32,591 respectively. LWebb 26 March 2007

[edit] Historical league position

I've created a league position graph at the request of JeremyA. Enjoy. josh (talk) 12:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed "good article" nomination

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of November 26, 2006, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Borderline, would pass with fairly minor alterations. The quality of the prose is reasonable, but there are too many one or two sentence paragraphs, which should be merged.
2. Factually accurate?: Fail. The article does not cite its sources. References, preferably in the m:Cite format, are a requirement for a good article.

I think you will find that the majority of the historical details taken from "The official centenary history of Sheffield United, the first 100 years" by Denis Clarebrough which is basically the "Bible" of United's history.

3. Broad in coverage?: Fail. The focus is almost entirely on history. Consider including sections on the stadium, supporters and team colours (see other featured or good football articles for examples) The trivia section should be removed - if something it truly notable it should be incorporated into the body of the text. Some of the things mentioned in the lead are not expanded upon elsewhere.
4. Neutral point of view?: Pass. No problems here.
5. Article stability? Pass. No evidence of edit wars or major disputes.
6. Images?: Borderline. The one existing image is fine, but the article could do with more. Bramall Lane appears to have an abundance of images, perhaps one or two of those could be used.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far. --Oldelpaso 17:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

I've put some inline refs in. This is exceedingly tiresome work in a long document. The premiership reference can be cited in quite a few other places. I might return when my eyesight recovers. The premiership ref also gives a very good account of the present squad and current results (and instant reports - the Charlton report is already there) and I wondered if we could just link to it rather than replicating its efforts. roundhouse 14:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree we should link to the premiership ref, doing this would also save editing time, and some space in the article. Also, imo the trivia section should be integrated into the main article or removed completely? - this would also save some space in the article. Hawksworthm 05:26, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Agreed Hawksworthm. Looking at the GA failed response, my ultimate intention is to reference the whole History section, and than transfer it to History of Sheffield United F.C., leaving a slimed-down version in th main United article. But that need arduous work of the type roundhouse attempted recently, and myself a while ago. L.J.SkinnerWOT?|I did 00:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
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