Talk:Shark

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Do you have any reference to shark mythology, in addition to what is already in the article? --pippo2001 03:57, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] continuing shark prejudices?

Hi, I think the section on "shark attacks" shouldn't be section number 2 in this article.

As I see it, putting this section there only answer to the fact that people always think of sharks in terms of them attacking people or not, and not as simple (carnivore) animals.

I think putting it in position two gives too much importance to the fact that sometimes attacks to humans do happen. I think it should be in position number 7 or 8, next to "Shark fishing", since I believe it's more a "other aspects of sharks" type.

since it would be a big change to the article, any comments on this idea?

--uriel urindar 10:35, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I think Shark Attacks would fit best either after Shark senses or Shark fishery. This is consistent with other articles on animals, which typically focus on information about the animal first, then later on human related topics such as conservation, danger to humans, etc. --Ginkgo100 ^{talk · contribs} 14:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree too. Plus the latest additions are again full of good old-fashioned hyped prejudices. I am just back from the Maldives where the Black and white tips where mixing with all the bathers, swimmers and snorkelers. They swam until about on the beach.

According to the current article however black tips are dangerous and if you're lucky you will survive an encounter with such a monster. You live by fighting them off by hitting their gils. In reality, they are so shy that is was very hard to get a decent photograph. I had to get up early to see the adults and everytime one ran into me by accident they turn around and swim away. The bull sharks I encountered could also not care less about me. Again they just swam away. Although I personally do not chase bull sharks (very unrecommended behavior), I saw an experienced underwater filmer do just that to get a decent shot. Accidents happen (5 people got killed in 2005) but millions of times people and sharks mix without any problem. I guess the Jaws movie still has a large influence on the general opinion. You are much more likely to get killed by a human (even in the water), nevertheless the Humans article has no information on which species are the most dangerous and how I can fight them off.

I propose to revert the current prejudiced changes. And then put the old Shark attack part as a main article on its own page. The separate page should then be a well balanced story as it is a subject that interests many. Janderk 17:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Shark attack is currently a disambiguation page with only two links, to the Shark Attack films and to this article. I propose to move most of the content in the section Shark attacks in this article to that title, thereby changing it from a disambiguation page to an article, and adding a disambig line at the top for the films. Meanwhile, this article can contain a small amount of information on the danger, such as it is, of sharks to humans and a link to the main article Shark attack. I'm putting the appropriate templates up now. Thoughts? --Ginkgo100 ^{talk · contribs} 18:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if another entire page is needed, but at least lest place the attacks as a sidefact of the animal and not as the primary center of attention. After all, sharks attack to eat, and humans are as edible as any other animal, it's not like there's hate there, they are predators, that's all. I see most of you agree with this --uriel urindar 17:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

it's definatly not a question of hating the animal, they just really spook you, and that's if your lucky and don't leave any limbs behind!! After the current spate of shark activity in South Africa there is again talk of culling and netting.

Mycroft_514 - 1 Mar 2007):

Look, the International Shark attack File is run by George Burgess, who, amongst other things, is guilty of academic fraud. He only holds a BS degree, not the PHD he keeps getting accreditted with. If you want actual shark statistics on interactions with humans, I suggest this site instead: http://www.sharkattackfile.com/ Further, in helping the GSAF (the site I just pointed you to) collect statistics on shark incidents over the last 6 years, I have come to find that George Burgess's statistics are just plain inaccurate as well. I have also made 3 dives in the ocean to specifically interact with sharks.

sharks are very interesting creatures

It seems a wee bit specious to say you're more likely to get attacked by a pig or a deer than a shark, wouldn't it depend on how much of your time you spend in water and how much you spend on a pig farm or in the woods?.

Besides, there's a difference between being attacked and being killed! I fancy my chances against a pig more than a shark!!!!

I read somewhere that for preschoolers, the scariest single word in the English language is "shark". How about some info on sharks attacking people? Is it common? rare? Are there precautions swimmers should take? Ed Poor

That's on my list of things to explore. Just to reassure Ed, shark attacks are actually very rare. ;) I plan to make this article much larger since sharks are very complex critters. Oh... and just to show people how perceptions can be false, I'd bet most think of the Great White as a rather ponderous, non-maneuverable animal.. Take a look at this link (if you didn't see the Discovery documentary called "Air Jaws").

http://www.discovery.com/stories/nature/sharkweek2000/sneakpeek.html

And click on "Watch the Video".. Rgamble

D'oh! At least I gave the opportunity for punning. As a side note, I have personal experience with how fully functional young sharks are. Having participated in a survey cruise off the coast of Maine, we catch fishes, measure and check their gut contents (needless to say, they don't survive this latter procedure - fortunately in the case of the fishes like sharks and rays that survive the netting process, we only do a few of these and release the others). Any female dogfish that are checked this way are also checked for pups and I've seen one or two that had pups with yolk sacs still attached. We cut the yolk sac free and release the pups, which are already quite mobile and attempting to bite their tormentors. Rgamble

Heh. Couldn't resist. (By the way, I owe you an email; soon.) - Who knew marine biology could be so, er, perilous an undertaking? Compared to that, surely editing Wikipedia's quite tame. :) -- April

- Nah, dogfish pups aren't bigger than 6-8 inches, and the adults have teeth designed for crushing so they're relatively harmless too (except for the glove piercing spines on the dorsal fins). I'd still rate editing Wikipedia as somewhat more wild. Rgamble

Magnus, thanks for dropping in a picture. That was on my list of to-do's for the page but that one's perfect. I'd love to put a picture of a great white pup (dead) lying next to a human for scale in the reproduction section, but not sure it's public domain (or even on the web for that matter). Rgamble

Hi Im new here and I'm the one that have done the latest edits. So if you mind flame away, Im learning.

Whale sharks is not 60 feet, there are lots of books saying that but there are no true measurement over 35-40 feet. Changed a bit on sharks killing humans. Changed some small bit here and there.

Is the whale shark really Oviparity that has been unsure I have to check it up. Do not like the definiton of a shark as a large, predator, but I guess it is quite correct? Must check the average size of a shark? :-) And I would place the sharks in the elasmobranch ???, I find the Chondrichthyes page and shark page is confusing now. Isent shakr, rays and skates part of the elasmobranches? skates is now not mentioned on the Chondrichthyes page ... well classification is not my strong side. Stefan

OK admit to 60 feet whale sharks, although they are not very common. Change Whale shark to Ovoviviparity.

What I think is missing now is shark finning and ampullae of Lorenzini.

Added ampullae of Lorenzini and lateral line, should have much more info and own page ...

Stefan

From the article, first section: There are exceptions to the "large", "marine" and "predatory" portions of the characterization. This makes sense, apart from the implication that not all sharks are "marine" - this is out of my field so I'll leave others to correct or not.Mat-C 15:34, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I always thought the "sharks dont get cancer" were true, but:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/703082.stm

That might be added as a "myth" about sharks...

Question...

There are two pictures on the front page. They both are the same. There are lots of edits on this page, myself included. I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Do you think maybe one should be removed?

--Khaldei 20:56, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reproduction

Please see my comment and link on Talk:Parthenogenesis and consider this topic for inclusion. --Viriditas 13:03, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'm going to Hawaii myself and have done some research on sharks in particular. I have heard of many myths of them taking forms of men. --nellieviolet

The side note about a well-endowed skate is out of place here. --Mzabaluev 10:59, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lateral lines

As far as I know lateral lines are for detecting the movement of water (wimilarly to as we humans can detect the wind on our skin), while electrical pulses sent out by wounded or dying fish, or rather electrical field resulting from bioelectricity, are detected by specialized cells in the organ at the top of the nose. Great for detecting hidden prey; wounded is detected rather due to olfactory sense. As I am not sure about validity of the mentioned fact, I didn't corrected the article (yet). --Jnareb 07:22, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Suffocation

I came across this interesting quote on the net. Not sure if its true: "Sharks are said to die of suffocation if they stop swimming" [Message left 05:36, 3 Jun 2005 by User:60.234.139.237 ].

It is true. I have updated the article accordingly. --Theo (Talk) 09:45, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not always true. Certain species of shark can lay motionless on the bottom quite nicely. Trekphiler 20:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cerberus

I know a lot about Greek Mythology and i've never heard a story about Cerberus being anything other than the 3 headed dog guard of Hades. certainly nothing to do with sharks

What is the source for that part of this article?

[edit] Humans taste bad

My understanding of the proceedings of most shark attacks are as follows: 1) shark mistakes swimming human for floundering fish 2) shark takes bite 3) shark discovers human flesh is much less oily than the fish and marine mammals it usually eats 4) shark says "yukk" to itself and leaves. If this is true (the humans-aren't-oily-enough bit) then I figure the article should mention it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:07, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

I doubt this is true. --pippo2001 01:14, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't know about that "oily" thing, but most sharks indeed stop their attack when they realize their prey isn't a fish, a seal or whatever. That's why the majority of shark attack casualties die of their injuries, rather than being completly eaten. 80.140.232.214 14:08, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I also hear that sharks generally only take one bite out of humans. But I heard a completely different hypothesis: Sharks treat humans no different than any other animal. Sharks take one big bite, then circle at a safe distance, waiting for their prey to bleed to death (rather than risk injury from all the thrashing of the wounded animal). I agree that If this is true (the humans-aren't-oily-enough bit) then ... the article should mention it. Anyone know one way or the other? --DavidCary 20:46, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

"Advice to Those Who Work or Play in Waters Inhabited by White Sharks"

[edit] Deadliest sharks

I think we should have the Discovery Channel's list on the deadliest sharks.

- B-101 02:00, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, tried to add much more text to shark attack, sortof incorporating the list but in text format, need feedback on the 10-15 sharks that are dangerous to humans, I'm sure there are lots that I have forgotten. Do not agree and sand tiger, should be in the part three, that will attack if provoked I think, but never dived with them so not really sure? Stefan 05:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Long range shark travel

Someone who edits this page will probably find this interesting - Shark followed on 12,000-mile trip. BD2412 ^talk 05:02, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I added a little more information about shark eyes. JedOs 23:19, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What the hell is going on?

Some guy calling himself JustPhil keeps removing the parts I have added to the article. This is what I have added:

"Unlike bony fish, the sharks have a complex dermal corset arranged as a helical network and made of flexible collagenous fibres surrounding their body. This works as an outer skeleton, providing attachment for their swimming muscles. The sharks saves more energy while swimming this way than if they didn't have their collagenous corset. A similar arrangement of collagen fibres has been discovered in dolphins and squids." Source: http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/white_shark/skin.htm

"Their dermal teeth gives them hydrodynamic advantages as they are reducing the turbulence when swimming." (A well known fact)

"Their upper jaw are not attached to the skull." (Also a well known fact)

"The short duct between the anterior and posterior nasal openings are not fused like in bony fish." (Another fact)

Those who read and use Wikipedia are encouraged to add and write themselves, but what's the point if it's removed all the time?

I have notified the user on his talk page that he should explain why he does the reverts and warned him agains the three revert rule WP:3RR, lets see what happens. I think your edits are good and can not see why they should be reverted. Stefan 06:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'm sorry. But that edit was deleting part of that paragraph.- JustPhil 11:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm glad to see everything is okay now.

[edit] Inviting all shark editors

I don't know if you guys out there have read the articles for the individual species. Some articles, e.g. Oceanic Whitetip Shark and Great White Shark are top-drawer. Absolutely first class work.

Other articles, e.g. Tiger Shark and Bull Shark are really pathetic. I mean Bull Shark really, really sucks. These are two important species.

Let's get busy people! Hokeman 01:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

how do sharks "smell" blood in the water? is it throught diffusing or is it bt other mechanisms

[edit] Opening sentence

The opening sentence (which is also a whole paragraph) reads as follows:

Sharks are a group (superorder Selachimorpha) of fish, with a full cartilaginous skeleton, a streamlined body plan, with normally 5, but up to 7 (depending on species) gill slits along the side of, or beginning slightly behind, the head (in some species, a modified slit called a spiracle, is located just behind the eye), dermal denticles covering the body to protect from damage, parasites and improve fluid dynamics, and rows of replaceable teeth in the mouth.

In case anyone decides to hack at this this incredible run-on sentence, i'd like to preserve it on the talk page here so it can be rememebered as a great example of awkward openings. —Pengo 04:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Collective noun

I removed the comment about "shiver" being the collective noun for a group of sharks. There's no source given, and the OED does not give this usage among the three distinct words written shiver in the English language. Google finds only 141 hits on "shiver of sharks", largely people listing collective nouns ("murder of ravens", etc.). I strongly suspect somebody just made this up -- put it under neologisms. Tkinias 12:33, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd put it in a 'Trivia' section if you decide to have one. I've heard it used once only.HappyVR 14:26, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sleep

Is it true that sharks never sleep? Can something be added about this? Badagnani 00:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It is not know how or if sharks sleep, I added a section with some facts, if anyone knows more please add. Stefan 14:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Urine

It says that sharks urine accumulates in the blood and is excreted throught the skin, but isn't urine what is filtered out of the blood, if you put urine back into the blood it just becomes plasma.

Perhaps it would be more clear to say "ammonia" or "nitrogenous wastes." --Ginkgo100 ^{talk · e@} 15:03, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sharks in captivity

It would be interesting to add a section to the article about sharks in captivity. I may take that up at some point, but for now, I am pretty busy with other things... So until then, other people are certainly free to take the bait and get started with it. User:Svartulfr1 01:17 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I have added something about sharks in captivity, this is only a start but its something --chris_huh 12:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

A very nice start at that... thanks! svartulfr1 17:04 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sense of Smell

Though I realize that their credibility is questioned by some people, on the show "MythBusters", they tested the 'blood drop in water'theory, and they foudn it to be untrue. Or..untrue within the parameters they created.

But it was a much smaller area of water and I'm not sure what kind of shark they tested this on, or if they were even fully grown sharks. The sharks were quite small. I don't know that there is any type of shark that is small enough to fit in a large bucket as an adult.

If anyone has any info on this, please edit that section, or at least clarify, with a source.

[edit] Reproduction2 - placenta

In the Placenta-article in does not say anything about non-mammalian placentas at all. Does someone have information about this and could add it? I think it is a very interesting question in what sense shark and mammalian placentas converge and what are the most important differences. It doesn't say anything about this neither here nor there. Great article, by the way, keep up the good work!80.109.92.235 00:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split "Physical characteristics" off

The article is becoming fairly big now - I think it would be good to split the physical characteristics out to a separate article and just maintain a summary here. Yomangani ^talk 10:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I was looking at what bits we might be able to split and physical characteristics seemed to be to most likely, as it is easily large enough to be its own page, and will only get bigger. chris_huh 10:59, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyediting

Are we using American or British spelling? I found both in the article, and I'm reluctant to change to one or the other without the consensus of people who have worked on the article. Any preference? I don't mind going in and changing it myself.

I also messed up with "fish" vs "fishes" in my edit. I went back and changed things before I hit "submit", but I may not have got them all. ("Fish" should be used for a number of individuals; "fishes" refers to a number of different species.) I'll give it another go-over later today. Sorry about that! Lomaprieta 03:00, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I found the very first edit [1], which appears to use American spelling (characterized, not characterised). So I would say editors should change British spellings where they encounter them to American spellings. This is according to (my interpretation of) Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English. --Ginkgo100 ^{talk · e@} 03:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Since that first edit only had one paragraph, i don't think you can really use that to go by. It seems that the majority of words so far in the article and in other shark articles is in British spelling, so i would have thought it would have been better to keep to that and change the few others. --84.9.149.110 08:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does this fact seem stupid?

In 2005, according to the International Shark Attack File, there were a total of 58 unprovoked attacks recorded worldwide, of which four were fatal.[25] In comparison, several hundred people die annually from lightning strikes[26] and 1.3 to 3 million people die from diseases transmitted via mosquito bites.[27]

0 people die from diseases carried in mosquito bites in cold environments. And 0 people die from shark attacks in central Australia. The entire basis of this comparison is wrong. Different areas have different chances of attacks. Id edit the page myself but im no good at editting

[edit] AGE

Hey can anyone tell me how old a shark can get? How old is it when it starts reproducing? Does it ever stop reproducing if so how old would it be? Does it have a teen stage? Does it die of old age? Does its teeth ever stop growing? FranzSeidel 17:12, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National Varieties of English

So which variety are we using? I see people changing spellings back and forth which is usually not appropriate, but would be okay if it were to make the spellings consistent with one variety. I went through the (very) old original edits, and found these early versions that appear to use American spellings, starting with the first edit: [[2] (characterized) [3] (recognized) [4] (favored) Based on this information I think Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English recommends using American spelling throughout the article.

I thought we had gone through and already made sure that they were all of the right variety. When it was selected as the Sharks COTF we went through and made sure they were all British spellings from what i remember, as only a few were American. Maybe someone has gone back in and changed a few back. C hris_huh^talk 00:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I missed that whole thing when the WP:FISH article fell off my watchlist somehow. Can you point me to the discussion? --Ginkgo100 ^{talk · e@} 01:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Its actually just a few headings up - 'Copyediting'. Its not really much of a discussion as not much was decided on, but i remember after reading it i and maybe someone else went through and tried to consistantly use British. But maybe someone has gone in and changed some of them back. C hris_huh^talk 10:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I think we decided on British English just because there were more instances ion the text already - the problem is that the Behavio(u)r section was added later and is now a prime target for that sort of "correction" (its especially nice when the title is changed and the first sentence left). Let's keep it as British English. Yomangani ^talk 10:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Someone check respiration section

There seems to be someone tampering with the article...

"The process of ensuring an adequate flow of the gills by forward movement is known as ram up the ass.

this doesnt sound scientific nor im sure is correct...

It's called vandalism and it's gone now. Thanks for drawing it to our attention. In the future, you can always make the change yourself -- anyone can edit this encyclopedia! --Ginkgo100 ^{talk · e@} 19:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] False info on smelling blood?

No scientist can actually prove that they can smell blood. Actually according to a discovery channel show, the Mythbusters, they can't smell blood. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.44.106.218 (talk) 00:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Dynamic lift in buoyancy section

"...so sharks employ the dynamic lift to maintain depth and sink when they stop swimming". I don't think this is right. Dynamic lift should incorporate something dynamic, such as moving.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.226.207.1 (talk • contribs).

Swimming is the dynamic movement involved. --Ginkgo100^talk 22:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sharks as fish

Sharks should not be classified as "fish" because they aren't vertebrates because they don't have bones and vertebrates have to have bones —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.101.44.70 (talk • contribs) 22:10, 31 January 2007.

Actually, a fish is any chordate (that is, animals with a notochord) that is not a tunicate or a tetrapod. For more information, see What is a fish?. --Ginkgo100^talk 23:51, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

a notochord is a backbone, which is composed of vertebrae, which sharks don't have

I'm not sure, but I think like us, humans, sharks have the notochord just on embrional stage, or else they wouldnt't be considered Chordata, or was I sleeping at my lessons again? o.O

No, a notochord is not the same as a backbone. Please read the article if you are not certain about this. The notochord is one of the most ancient structures in chordates, which is why the phylum is named after it. The notochord is found in the embryological stage of all chordates including sharks. In the adults of more derived (advanced) species, its only remnant is a blob of tissue inside the discs between the vertebrae. (By the way, sharks do have vertebrae; they are made of cartilage instead of bone, but they develop from the same tissue.) In the most primitive chordates, such as lampreys, the notochord is fully developed even in adults. --Ginkgo100^talk 21:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Afferent vs. Efferent

The article says "Here the blood is pumped to the shark's gills via the ventral aorta artery where it branches off into afferent brachial arteries." I'm no expert on shark physiology, but my understaning was that afferents go towards the heart and efferents go away from it. Is this not right? -Selket ^Talk 05:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shark Rehabilitation Mania

It might be worthwhile mentioning that despite being "misunderstood" creatures, they are nevertheless extremely dangerous and should never be approached however benevolent the motives.

Except in the case of some TV explorers who foolishy swim with sharks, it would be agreed that there would be nothing misunderstood on either side if an unwitting ordinary mortal came face to face with a shark. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.37.177.61 (talk) 23:23, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

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