Talk:Sex crimes against Asian women in the United States

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This article was nominated for deletion on May 31 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents 1 Encyclopaedic? 2 Merger with a broader article on sexual crimes 3 Context. 4 Why not "Sex Crimes Against Left Handed women in the United States?" 5 Another white rapist targetting Asian women 6 Reference Issues

[edit] Encyclopaedic?

How is this encyclopaedic? From Gnetwerker's history of reverting edits from the Asian fetish article, this article is questionable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.130.122.139 (talk • contribs).

I agree. However, this was the only way to get it off of the other page. -- Gnetwerker 08:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

There should be some mention of serial killer and rapist Richard Ramirez, who had a fetish for Asian women. He chose to commit his crimes in neighborhoods with large Asian populations, although he raped and killed non-Asians of both sexes as well as Asians, mainly based on whoever happened to be at the places where he committed his crimes.

I don't get it. So if a latin woman is attacked, it doesn't matter? This article is offensive. Or are you planning to make pages for everyone? Silly political nonsense- belongs on a blog, no wikipedia.

Logic 101. Not talking about A does not imply that A does not exist. Nowhere in the article does it downplay or say that it doesn't matter if Latino women were targetted for attacks. In fact, it doesn't say anything about Latino women at all. I'm sure sex crimes against Latino women would be a worthy article, too. Maybe I'll write it, also. Hong Qi Gong 04:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure you won't, but if you do, please make sure to mention that Latin women are at higher risk than Asians for crime. Anyway, back to logic: Imagine, if you will, a list of "crimes by Jews". Now, they may be factually correct, but having a list of only crimes by Jews and no one else seems to have a political agenda, a POV, and imply something. Worse, however, for this article, is the fact that statistically Asian females are disproportionately less likely to be victimized as compared to other races. So what's the point. I just find it lamentable that Wikipedia is a political soap box and that special interest groups abuse it for political points.

Well, according to that article in Yale Daily News, Asian American women rape victims are much less likely to report their rape. So it is possible that the real rate is much higher than the reported rate. However, this article itself never claims that Asian American women are targetted at a higher rate, and there is a USDOJ source to claim that they are, in fact, targetted at a lesser rate than Native American women and African American women. There is no political agenda here.

So what's the point, you ask? According to some of the sources cited, Asian American women are targetted for sexual assault for some specific reasons that may possibly be only applicable to Asian women. And the fact that Asian American women may be less likely than women of other races to report their rape also makes this a unique subject. The fact of the matter is, many social trends affect people of different races in different ways. Sexual assault is one of them, and the USDOJ report even shows this in the fact that women of different races are targetted at different rates instead of at the same rate. And again - nothing in the article claims that Asian American women are targetted at a higher rate. I don't understand why, just because this article concentrates on crime specifically affecting Asian American women, you'd think Wikipedia is being used as a political soap box. There is no political agenda here, especially if I am able to provide contrasting POVs.

Your objection seems to be that this article is specifically about Asian American women. The article is seriously lacking in good sources, so what if there were actually more sources cited in the article? Would you still have the same complaint? What if it was a different kind of crime, but still about a specific race or gender of people? Or what if it was an article about a specific racial demography in the US? For example, would you have a problem with an article about how black men are much likelier to be the victims of gun violence? Or how about an article about how black men are much likelier to be incarcerated? Would you have a problem with articles like that? There are probably much more sources for subjects like that, than compared to the subject matter of this article. But realistically, you would have the same problem with them as you would with this one, because they are issues specifically affecting a certain racial and gender demography.

And seriously, I would write one for Latino American women, too, if you really would like to see one. But it seems like I'm having a difficult time just keeping this article from being voted off wikipedia survivor island (take a look at its deletion discussion). A similar one about Latino American women would not survive either. Hong Qi Gong 05:59, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

There are in fact several academic sources which develop broad theories regarding sexual crimes against Asian American women. See, e.g., Jang et. al.'s "Predictors of Interracial Homicide Victimization for Asian Americans: A Macrostructural Opportunity Perspective" [1], which claims that Asian Americans are more likely to be victims of interracial crimes than white and African Americans. --Wzhao553 06:17, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger with a broader article on sexual crimes

I think this article should be deleted and its content should be merged into a general discussion of sex crimes. If this article's content were to be merged into a general discussion of sexual crimes, it would best be sorted into its respective types e.g. racial profiling, murder, rape, etc. I also doubt the statement that Asian women are "least likely to report such incidents" of sex crimes, because it is pure speculation on the numbers of Asian people or Asian American women who do not report crimes. It seems they would only know how many Asian American women do report sexual crimes.-- Dark Tichondrias 01:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but they can compare that to the percentage of rape victims across all races reporting their rape. Like the quote in the article said, 26% of all rape victims come forward, but for Asian American women, only 8% do. Hong Qi Gong 03:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It may be true that fewer Asian women report sex crimes, but they did not cite objective statistics for the first part of the statement about a "disproportionate" amount of Asian women are victims of sex crimes. For emphasis on objectivity, I feel that part of the quote should be removed.--Dark Tichondrias 03:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I really don't see what the problem is. That claim came from a source about sex crimes against Asian women in the US and that text is a direct quote from the source. It is even presented in the article as a direct quote. If a user clicks on the link, he would read the same sentence that you want to delete. The article, although very short, has a point and counterpoint: Department of Justice statistics show that Asian women are not targetted especially more, and Yale Daily News disagrees. I think it's fine the way it is. Hong Qi Gong 05:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Context.

In the "Asian fetish theory" section, the source says nothing about what race of men Yin Ling Leung and Helen Zia are referring to. It is true most sex crimes against women are committed by men of the same race, but there is nothing to indicate whether the two women are referring to Asian men or non-Asian men. We can't summarily conclude that they are referring to Asian men (or non-Asian men), especially when the context of what they're saying is Asian fetish. Hong Qi Gong 07:12, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Without the qualifier that their arguments racially disriminate against the accused, we should not assume this is part of their argument. It is unknown whether or not these people meant to racially discriminate against the accused. It is the informal logical fallacy of Argument from ignorance to assume they are using this qualifier in their premises just because it was not specifically mentioned that they are not racially discriminating against the accused. Therefore, the assumption that their argument involves no racial discrimination against the accused is justified.

The argument that if she were to define hate crimes and racist love as crimes targetting Asian women, then most Asian men commit the hate crimes is not circular logic, but an argument from definition. It is not important that there exists a legal definition of hate crime, since she has defined what a hate crime is in this context. In this context, her definition of hate crime is part of the Asian fetish hypothesis not based on the law of the United States.--Dark Tichondrias 20:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Circular logic involves an argument. Zia's statement that crimes targetting Asian women are defined as hate crimes is not an argument but a conditional. The circular logic fallacy only applies to arguments.--Dark Tichondrias 20:23, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The current paragraph does not say whether the women are talking about Asian men or non-Asian men as perpetrators. The information is not presented as a definite fact, but as a quote from specific people. Plus, it's already mentioned in another article that most perpetrators of sex crimes are of the same race as the victims. Hong Qi Gong 20:24, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Let's not speculate the race(s) of the usual perpetrators. The fact is we do not know for sure who are the usual perpetrators. Just present the facts and let readers judge for themselves. ktchong 11 August 2006

[edit] Why not "Sex Crimes Against Left Handed women in the United States?"

Why Asian women? Are they over-represented in crime statistics? Give me evidence before you demonise my gender and my ethnicity? Seriously though, if these women really care more about the sisterhood and less about their ideologies, they might find African-American, indigenous and Hispanic women (who live in more precarious economic and social conditions) are more likely to suffer sexual assult. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kransky (talk • contribs) 2006-08-20 10:18:22.

• Please sign your comments.
• If you can find sources that claim there are some special circumstances under which left-handed women are targetted for sex crimes, by all means, go ahead and start an article on it.
• The article is not about the women who claim that Asian women are disproportionally targetted, so your rhetoric concerning what they "care about" might better served put in your blog. --- Hong Qi Gong 15:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another white rapist targetting Asian women

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061116/ap_on_re_us/serial_rapist

I don't have the time at the moment to add something to this article. But I wanted to post up the link to the news for any editors interested in adding it. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 22:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference Issues

While reading the article, I noticed that a number of the numbered references appear to be jumbled up, at least in the "Instances of sex crimes against Asian women" section. Maybe an editor should take a gander at that. Arcayne 02:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)