Talk:Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous

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[edit] the organisation of the talk page

Many talk pages on wikipedia are a mess and difficult to follow. This one was an example of the worse talk pages on wikipedia, before I added some section headings. No title, no date, so we didn't know which version people were talking about. It is better now that I have organized the talk into several sections.

Let's keep it clean and organized in a logical way, by putting a meaningful title to each talk section, and by keeping the discussion of each topic within its proper section. Put new threads at the bottom, and don't forget to sign AND date your post with four tildes. Thanks. (btw, are there guidelines at all, for talk pages?) AugustinMa 03:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV thread (2005)

  • this page is horrible. it's totally pov and reads like some corny 12 step program brochure.
    • Well its a bit difficult to write something which CAN'T be taken from other literature, can't use copyright material. I think its better than it HAD been. There are some disputed points within the dicussion and the original author was using an AA POV to describe SLAA. To some extent that has been corrected. There was to be discussion about 12/12 but it got removed pending some re-writes to make it not a copy of the original. The request was to make it 'informational' about the steps. Still working on that one. The references aren't bad and for the most part its fairly sober. There are some points I'd still like to change. Join in .... DrGnu 03:44, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
      • I've done some peripheral changes, removing excessive bolding, etc. This does read as if it were copied directly from promotional literature, and contains information that is probably not encyclopedic. I also changed the NPOV tag to Bias, as there does not seem to be a dispute over the bias. -Willmcw 07:36, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

i agree with the 1st comment. It reads like a pamphlet. Especially everything under the heading "meetings". The uses of "we, you and us" make it clear that it is not written by a 3rd party.

I agree, we now have a description from the point of view of the indoctrinated. I would like to hear from someone who can speak rigorously about the cult aspects of 12 step groups.

Use of the word "cult" in this context suggests lack of neutrality on the part of the writer of the comment. Is there rigorous, neutral discussion about "cult aspects of 12 step groups?"

  • While defining a group as a cult sounds like it lacks neutrality, there are criterion that are fairly well established to define a cult. Cults have their own language, distance members from their families, have an inner and outer circle of members, have knowledge that outsiders don’t or can’t understand, seek to increase ranks by indoctrinating others. From my own experience with members of SLAA, the above characteristics hold true for the group as well as other 12 step groups and many churches. Even though SLAA does not meet the more sensational pedestrian understanding of cult, it is a, shall we say, small “c” cult.
  • This page is very informative but it does read very much from the POV of the 12-step group, like a pamphlet from it. But they bring up a lot of good points. I think much of the material here is worthy of inclusion, but maybe the whole article needs a more comprehensive, overview-like structure that can incorporate the ideas put forth. And certainly dissenting information as well. The bits which tell about the group and how it differs from other 12-step "S"fellowships are certainly helpful. What it needs I think is expansion of context. I think expansion of context would be more helpful than reduction of content. but certainly what content is there could benefit from reduction of its POV bias. --AaronW

I agree that this definately has the undertones of a devotee. As a current 12 step member, I'm not apt to call it a cult but as my last sponsor and I used to say, "We're not in the front row drinking the koolaid." There's a group think mentality which is hard for a freethinking agnostic like myself to swallow. There is a lot of dogma associated with these programs, people with more time are called "elders." There is a lot of emphasis placed on the newcomer in the literature but not true in practice. I've even heard people say that newcomers should "Take the cotton out of their ears and put it in their mouths." Or heard of oldtimers in LA telling newcomers they're too soft and to come back after a few more years of drinking. People are still ego driven and crazy. I like being sober but, quite honestly, don't like many, many aspects of the program. I'd elaborate more but I'm running late for a meeting...Fleamike 03:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)Flea

· As a member of Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, I agree that this page is atrocious. It's incorrect about a number of things, misrepresents the basic literature and really needs a full rewrite. I started to clean up a few things, but as I got into it I realized how horrendous it really is. By the way, I don't agree with everything S.L.A.A. has to say, but by following a few simple instructions (and becoming an agnostic) I was able to recover and now I have a closer relationship with my family, have real friends and help hurting people every day. Thanks for helping work on this entry.


[edit] Removed Bias and cleanup warning

Most of the comments in the thread above are not dated, and from the few dates given, it is one year old or more. It seems that a lot has been cleaned in the interim. I am therefore removing the bias tag from the article. If someone disagrees, put it back, start a new thread with a meaningful title, say precisely what you object to, and DATE and SIGN your comment, so that we know what revision you are talking about. For the same reason, I remove the cleanup warning. It was added but no 'cleanup thread' was started on the talk page, explaining what someone thought had to be cleaned up. Add it back if you wish, but explain by starting a new thread, with a title, explanation, and always DATE your comments. AugustinMa 03:15, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

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