Talk:Seven day roguelike

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2 January 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

http://common-lisp.net/project/lifp/rouge.htm

"Rougelike" - gag 7dr game where you play a Rouge admin 207.145.133.34 21:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contests or Challenges

I think the article should describe the 7DRL competitions as "Challenges", and not "Contests". The 48 hour film project can rightly be called a contest, because each city chooses one of the films as the best of the competition. But the 7DRL is really a Challenge; everyone who completes the task wins, and the winners are not ranked in any way (so far at least). Capmango 18:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

First of all this page passed VfD, so it was considered worth keeping. The question then is about it's sources.

"This page is worth keeping, but needs to establish its notability better." -- this is a roguelike DEVELOPMENT related page. As such, it can only quote, and base on sources in the roguelike DEVELOPMENT scene. Roguelike Development, as something not practiced by anyone other than indie roguelike fans is restricted to three sources:

  • USENET group rec.games.roguelike.development -- primary source
  • RogueBasin @ http://roguelikedevelopment.org/ -- secondary source
  • blogs/websites/posts by roguelike developers -- tetriary source

All these sources, which as agreed upon by most roguelike developers are the most reliable sources for roguelike development information, do treat the 7DRL event as a very notable thing, probably even the most important event in recent roguelike development.

The editor who puts the Notability template up on this page seems not to understand that given the genre's specifics, no "notable in his opinion" sources can be found, so the template is just polluting the page, serving no purpose.

Also please tell me what sources does 48 Hour Film Project, 48HOURS, AAA Travel High School Challenge, Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest cite except self-reference. Actually those are just the first few from -- seems that almost ALL of them do not cite any sources except self-reference.

Hence, I delete the Notability notice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.219.180.99 (talk) 16:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

None of these references are reliable sources. Roguebasin is a fansite, blogs and personal sites and Usenet are self-published sources. We need some sort of coverage in reliable sources, independent of the subject. The fact that there are other problematic articles doesn't change the fact that this article is problematic; there are many articles with typos, but typos are hardly the standard. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:00, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Am I reaching you at all? I'm not saying they're reliable sources. I'm saying that they are the ONLY "reliable" sources in the subject that is being described! And so, following this Notability template's advice...
"If you are familiar with the subject matter, please expand the article to establish its notability, citing reliable sources. If notability cannot be established, the article is more likely to be considered for deletion, per Wikipedia:Guide to deletion. (See also Wikipedia:Notability)"
... you should either place the article again into VfD, or accept the sources quoted as reliable. For no other sources will be found, because there aren't any. What leads us to the conclusion that this template on this article serves no purpose, except just polluting the content. All I can add is a link to rec.games.roguelike.announce's 7DRL announcements [1], where the content is moderated by an editor, and what is widely considered as the *most* reliable source on roguelike news. If this isn't enough, then what do you expect from a development niche that is only ran by fans?
And if you decide to insert that template again, then I expect you to go through the section, and place this template in almost each of them. Otherwise you're breaking the NPOV. --81.219.180.99 23:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
It was argued in the AFD that there are more sources than just the primary ones (fansites that run these competitions). Okay. So, we need to go find them. An AFD does not suddenly make a fansite a reliable source. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I suggest keeping this article. Artipol 20:22, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

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