User talk:Sephia karta
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[edit] Re: Lake Ritsa
The article is ok now. IMHO it is an article about a lake, so having to define an area "de facto", "de jure", "brekaway" etc. is an overkill, see the article on the area if You (the reader) are interested. The 1st sentence just looks doltish with those definitions. That's just MHO, feydey 19:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
- The topic came up in the talk for the Abkhazia article: since Abkhazia's status is disputed, how do we refer to it in other articles? It won't do to outline both positions every time Abkhazia is mentioned, that would be far too cumbersome. I consider "Georgia's breakaway republic Abkhazia" to be a fair summary, but I am also happy with how things are worded now in the Lake Ritsa article, because this wording manages to imply the ambiguity of Abkhazia's status.Sephia karta 23:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Stubs
Sephia, did your new Abkhazia stub pass the right proposals for stub creation and all that? Or did you just create it from scratch on your own initiative? If the latter, you might run into a deletion review in the near future. It happened with me, on the Transnistria stub. However, we passed with flying colors. Please let me know. - Mauco 03:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- I only discovered about that procedure once I had already started. I decided to go through with it and I 'turned myself in' afterwards, explained the situation, I'll have to see how things go.sephia karta 01:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] the Abkhazia tag deletion
- Closing time guideline
You stated "According to the guideline, after 10 days, a rfd may be closed if consensus has been reached." Not to sound rude, but where in the world did you get that information? According to WP:SFD, "After a voting period of seven days, action will be taken if there is consensus on the fate of the stub type." This is the appropriate guideline to cite. Also, I even let the discussion run 1 an extra day before deleting.
- Consensus
Here were the votes:
- Delete (7)
- Grutness
- Alai
- Valentinian
- Ldingley
- Khoikhoi
- Kober
- Clevelander
- Keep (2)
- Sephia karta
- Patricknoddy
Yes, many of the delete votes do not give a specific reason, but that is not required. If you want to go that way, Patricknoddy also did not give any specific reason either. If you count only the people who gave reasons, here are the votes:
- Delete (4)
- Grutness
- Alai
- Ldingley
- Valentinan
- Keep (1)
- Sephia karta
That still shows consensus to delete.
- Motivation to delete
You are incorrect in one of your assessments: "They overlap with other stub categories, or duplicate them outright" I would claim that it overlaps with {{Georgia-stub}}. Cat:Georgia (country) stubs is not over-large, so there is no real need to split it out into even more sub-types.
- Edit-wars & high-risk
While there have not been any edit wars recently, the template is still high-risk. Often when it comes to the images. Any change in a template repeatedly causes unnecessary strain on the servers.
- NPOV
I'm not sure how the deletion really violates NPOV. As I saw it (and demonstrated in my first section), consensus was reached, so I deleted it. I did not take a side in this issue and was merely acting as the closing admin for this discussion. If you have issues regarding NPOV, perhaps you should take that up with the editors who participated in the discussion.
- My suggestion
I think what would have been most beneficial here would have been a separate {{Abkhazia-stub}} that feeds into Cat:Georgia (country) stubs (this is known as upmerging). Alai did suggest that, but no one else seemed to take him up on that idea.
I hope I was able to answer all your questions. If you still have any concerns, please let me know. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 15:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you for taking you time to answer my questions, some things are clearer to me now, whereas others aren't yet.
- Closing time guideline
Where I said 10 days, I meant 7 days, I was quoting from memory there, sorry. (I can no longer find the page where I had the quote from.) I did not in fact suspect you of having closed the rfd early, my point was that while the minimum time had passed, you could have chosen to keep the rfd open until the debate had come to an end. In review, I don't know whether you can, actually, I haven't been able to find a page that clearly outlines the procedure.)
- Consensus
Still what you are doing there though is counting votes. While there was a 'consensus' in votes, there was no consensus in the debate. It is not always possible to achieve this but one should at least try, and this one did not do. There was a lack of consensus because my arguments were not challenged. I find it puzzling how an rfd that does not care to respond to the arguments against deletion is allowed to succeed.
- Motivation to delete
Ah, I see what you mean. However, to rule that it exclusively overlaps with the Georgian stub category is to take a side in the dispute over Abkhazia. Reading back I see that Grutness alluded to this in passing. It could have been much more clearly stated and it would be helpful if the motivation behind a deletion is mentioned explicitly both in the initial rfd and with the closure of the debate.
- Edit-wars & high-risk
It may potentially cause strain to the server, but this fact can not overrule the NPOV policy. And even if it could, it would have to be an outlined principle maintained consistently, not a claim to be made ad hoc when convenient. You did not adress the fact that it is in fact quite normal for disputed areas to have their own stub category, despite the risk of edit wars.
- NPOV
I did not mean to imply (though I guess I did) that your act of deletion was a breach of NPOV. Rather, I meant that as a part of your evaluating the arguments back and forth, you should have found that the breach of NPOV caused by a deletion was the strongest argument being made.
- Your suggestion
I don't see how this is fundamentally different though from the Abkhazia stub category being a sub-category of the Georgia stub category, which was the arrangment.
As you will have noticed, I am still strongly opposed to the deletion. I would like to ask your advice on what it is that is currently standing between the Abkhazia stub category and Wikipedia. Is it merely the too small size of the stub category Georgia? sephia karta 15:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] WPW newsletter
  Issue I - December 2006 |
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This is the project's first newsletter. If you have any questions, comments, or ideas about it, feel free to post it on WT:WPW. Thanks. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 23:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Speedy deletion of Image:Flag of Abkhazian SSR.svg
A tag has been placed on Image:Flag of Abkhazian SSR.svg, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:
Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet very basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.
For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Himasaram 00:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Speedy deletion of Image:Flag of Abkhazian ASSR.svg
A tag has been placed on Image:Flag of Abkhazian ASSR.svg, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:
Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet very basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.
For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Himasaram 02:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
