Talk:Separation of church and state (medieval)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This title of this article is really wrong. It should be something like Relationship between church and state in medieval times. DJ Clayworth 14:58, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Also few factual challenges. Do we have a reference for "the barons wanted to create a separation between church and state" in Magna Carta? Also we should probably note that they would not have meant the same thing then that 'separation of church and state' means (for example) in the US in the present day. DJ Clayworth 15:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Title could be changed. I just made it to fit logically with the separation of church and state series. The title should not be taken literarlly, its just a guide for the reader, the text is whats important.

Having now looked at the main article Separation of church and state I think it suffers from the same problem, and I'm gong to suggest it be renamed also. DJ Clayworth 18:42, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Separation of church and state is a western european tradition that goes back to the time of Constantine and Saint Augustine. It is a foreign concept in many other places. For example an article called the "relationship between church and state in Byzantine" would make no sense, they are one and the same. Stbalbach 20:46, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

re magna carta, yes, the barons were doing an end-run around church authority through the document. Basically the church laughed and said just a piece of paper is not going to cut it. Thats not a great explanation its been a while since I looked at it, but there were clauses concerning the structure of the church in england. Stbalbach 15:57, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My real trouble I guess is that many people reading this will think that the barons were trying to set up something like modern day US (which is clearly not the case). I think 'separation of church and state' is now so closely associated with the US we should avoid it as a phrase in other contexts. DJ Clayworth 18:43, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I dont see any confusion with the USA, the article is clearly a medieval history article, theres no mention of modern USA. Feel free to reword some parts of it if your not comfortable with it. Stbalbach 20:46, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dominium mundi

Hi, I came across the article Dominium mundi at the list of requests for cleanup after translation. I know absolutely nothing about this topic, but as I worked on the lead section, I came across a few other articles (this one, Investiture Controversy, Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor, and others) that seemed to overlap with it in various ways. I think it would be really helpful if someone with knowledge of the history of this period would take a look at the article and see if perhaps parts of it (or all of it) could be merged. - AdelaMae ^{(talk - contribs)} 06:58, 1 December 2006 (UTC)