Talk:Semen

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  1. old – November 2006
  2. – January 2007


Discussion on Guidelines for images in Sexology and Sexuality articles
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Contents

[edit] User Richiex is a wikipedia exhibitionist, whose ejaculate is in the photograph, part 2

This rather important topic was taken off this page and not archived for some unknown reason, so I thought to continue it here to advance discussion of it. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Richiex User RichieX is a troll, who as evidenced by his contributions page, has taken photographs of his own naked body in a variety of graphic images, very likely to troll wikipedia for exhibitionist reasons. Several of his pictures were nominated for deletion by wikicommons, he doesn't have an actual userpage meaning that in spite of his "contributions" he wasn't particularly interested in feedback or being a part of the wikipedia community with regards to discussion over said contributions. The image of his ejaculate that is now on the page is a cropped version of a photo which previously included part of the man's genitals in the picture. The bottom line is that there are a trillion better-quality photographs of semen readily available via a mere google image search that could suffice in the stead of a low-quality image that takes the idea of "original research" ridiculously too far, and why the image even needs to be up there at all given its quality/nature is a mystery. --68.111.70.104 22:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Took picture off. Movietrailer 00:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Not archived? It's the very first discussion on the January archive.Prometheus-X303- 09:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I feel that this image is more suitable for an Ejaculation subject, and should be removed until a more clinical image can be found. This is clearly not in context with the rest of the article, and not a very professional photograph. Movietrailer 11:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
This is an old discussion, that has been rehashed many times, (See archives). See the discussion further below reegarding the current consensus. Removing the image is against that consensus. If you have tried to remove the image eight times in three days, and been reverted every time that is a sign that your opinion to remove the image is against consensus. If you read WP:3RR it says "Editors may still be blocked even if they haven't made more than three edits in any given 24 hour period, if their behaviour is clearly disruptive." and "The bottom line: use common sense, and don't participate in edit wars. Rather than reverting multiple times, discuss the matter with other editors. If an action really needs reverting that much, somebody else will probably do it — and that will serve the vital purpose of showing that the community at large is in agreement over which course of action is preferable." Atom 15:04, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I have reviewed the logs several times and I still fail to see this "consensus" you keep talking about. A minority of editors such as yourself seem intent on keeping the image here for whatever strange reason that I cannot fathom. Most of the posts by users have been against the image for generally the same reasons. --66.75.238.69 11:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

This discussion should focus on the content,not the editor who added it. It seems completely plausible that even a notorious exhibitionist can sometimes make useful contributions. Interestingstuffadder 19:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

How is this a useful contribution then? It is an ugly image that was created by a user photographing his own ejaculate. Congratulations, we now have an image that is a mocking point undermining the credibility of wikipedia as a resource. --66.75.238.69 11:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Addition to Cultural Aspects

I added some information to the "martial arts" section regarding Chinese culture and semen.

[edit] could you add please la:Eiaculatum, thank you

Could you add please la:Eiaculatum, thank you--85.1.75.238 21:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

done -- zzuuzz (talk) 22:01, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion from November 2006-January 2007

What happened to the discussion from that period. Why is it not archived? 24.248.9.162 04:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea, but the discussion over the disgusting image that exhibitionist troll user RichieX put up of his own semen can still be read in them. Hopefully eventually the image will be taken off permanently, since I have yet to see one credible argument as to why low-quality content created by a user trolling wikipedia with pictures of his penis should be included anywhere on wikipedia except in a humorous parody article. --68.111.70.104 13:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Of what I read, only two people wanted to keep that image up. How is that a consensus? 24.248.9.162 03:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feature Picture

Make sure to vote for the picture of human semen as a featured picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Semen ChicagoPizzaYumm 22:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC) This does not appear to be a valid link.

[edit]  :Image:Semen2.jpg

The image was deleted without following any process by user:Danny. Atom 15:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Not out of process, a user can delete images on sight if they believe that they are of no use to Wikipedia, pose no value, are illegal, and a large amount of other things. Cbrown1023 15:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

No, that is not true. We have a deletion process, including a speedy delete process. That process was not followed. Whether the image is of no value, or illegal is a matter of perspective and discussion. In this case, clearly neither was the case. It does not violate 2237, as it is not a sex act, there are not even any people in the image. After months of discussion by dozens of people to come to consensus on the use of the image in the semen article, including a compromise to place it lower in the article, it would be hard to argue that it is not used, or of no value. Atom 15:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I have restored the image; we'll see what happens next.
Could someone please summarize the previous discussion at the top of this talk page?
Fred-Chess 16:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


I see that the image is back on the commons site, but not appearing on the Wikipedia semen article? Perhaps the image name on Wikipedia is salt'ed? It does not seem to be on the MediaWiki:Bad image list. Atom 16:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Seems to be visible now. Thanks, to whomever, Atom 20:31, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
"By dozens of people?" Last I checked, the comments in support by two or three people is not "dozens." 24.248.9.162 20:02, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


Please look at the archives. Dozens is more accurate than two or three. This debate has been going on for about a year and some consensus seemed to have been arrived at after a lengthy process of discussion, with many arguments on both sides. Interestingstuffadder 20:38, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it looks to me like a number of people have participated at one time or another. If you mean did all of them vote for the recent consensus? Consensus is not normally by vote. Obviously for the past month it has been quiet, and people have been satisfied with the compromise moving the image lower in article. We all would like if we could find a good image to replace the current one. Until then it seems to be a compromise acceptance.

Here are the people that I have seen discuss the issue in the past year or so: Atom, Prometheus, zzuuzz, Johntex, Scix, The Linguist, Slickshoes3234, Trevor H, Tim1988, Interestingstuffadder, Yourebustedyo, carlb, Daniel Olsen, walot, 67.23.140.120, CerealBabyMilk, Darksun, Zero1328, Nycmstar, Erielhonan, PHDrillSergeant, 134.225.12.50, Andrew 8754, Offensiveandconfusing, 209.172.240.254, BanyanTree, 66.75.238.69, 72.76.248.151, 68.5.45.126, 66.212.48.76, Fallom, 128.220.159.42, 24.58.14.1, Ronnierosenthal, MMad, Quadzilla99, 66.167.202.101, Rockules318, 24.243.60.29, Robb0995, Kirvett, 204.90.50.252, 75.3.204.100, 24.58.14.1, Pymkinkin, Rlcuda, 68.44.192.170, ckules318, 68.5.45.126. Each offered opinions, and discussed.

Here are the people who actively edited the article since 3 december when the compromise to move the semen image to the middle of the article was made. (That is to say editors, rather than lurkers): Kirvett, Robb0995, Obacoomb, Uriel8, Zzuuzz, Atomaton, PrometheusX303, BanyanTree, SchmuckyTheCat, Erielhonan, KenFehling, Danny Yee, Salad Days, and Wafulz. Since the compromise, the image has been removed against consensus, without discussion three times, and was replaced back on the page by one of the editors above.

In all of January, it has not be removed even once.

We have a consensus, and actively or passively, all of these people are supporting it. If we leave things as they are, then it should remain quiet. If someone decided to move the image to lede position, it would start a war on consensus anew.Atom 20:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

The article is locked from new or unregistered users altering it (otherwise I would have done so myself) and regardless of how many people feel strongly against it, a minority (which appears to be the case here) can still re-edit and restore something all they like until intervention is made. Additionally, the people you've gone back and looked for to support are still small in number compared to those against it. You're making an argument for consensus based on very faulty reasoning indeed, Atom. I would also add that many have tried and grown frustrated with the antics of users like yourself, who effectively have stonewalled this discussion in a manner worthy of being dubbed one of the many "lamest edit wars" of wikipedia. This image is an embarrassment to wikipedia, and users like yourself using such disingenuous tactics over something as ridiculous as a user-created image of their own bodily fluids are an embarrassment as well. --68.111.70.104 14:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Please provide some evidence for your claims about a "minority" "stonewalling". When I look back at the discussion, it does not seem at all clear that an overwhelming majority has opposed this picture. Also, your majority/minority reasoning itself is faulty. Wikipedia operates by reasoned consensus, not majority votes (see WP:NOT#DEMOCRACY). Moreover, many of the voices opposing this photo have said things along the lines of "that's gross", which is certainly not a valid wikipedia rationale. Interestingstuffadder 14:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for a good explanation. I can see your perspective well, and how you view things. I hear you saying that a series of anon IP's and a few Wikipedia users have one opinion, and a handfull of editors have an opposing opinion. The reason that the article is protected against anon edit is because a series of random people who aren't familiar with Wikipedia policies or our community culture remove an image that they think is pornographic. They often aren't personally offended (some are) but they think that the image is someone's vandalism, or not appropriate because children might see it, or that all explicit images must be contrary to an encyclopedia. (They have a variety of well meaning reasons). In your case, you could register, which would give you more anonymity, in a way, than the IP address, and participate in building this article in a few days. If you don't want to go to that level of effort, then you are probably the kind of anon that we don't want to edit the article, because someone who feels that way probably is not aware of Wikipedia policies that we do censor, and have not read the content disclaimer that warns ALL users "Wikipedia contains many different images, some of which are considered objectionable or offensive by some readers." And also don't know about WP:AGF or WP:CON and WP:CIV.
There is a mindset, not universally shared, but common, that there are a set of people who actually contribute to an article by improving it with citeable, verifiable information relevant to the topic, add pictures, offering editing and layout enhancements, etc. The contributing editors, even when they have very different perspectives, work together, and usually hash out differences of opinions to make the article better. Then there are a set of people who "drive-by" the article, have not participated in the discussions (as you obviously are) but just cut out whatever they disagree with in the article (for political, religious, philisophical reasons). Or, in the rare case, they criticize on the talk page, but don't contribute. These contributing editors, with differing opinions, tend to feel a sense of ownership and protection of the article. After spending dozens of hours to finely tune the article, and discuss in depth issues related to the quality of the article with other contributing editors (which includes listening to the drive-by participants) they resent when someone who has never even seen the article before decided to make some large edit that undoes their hard work and efforts to find consensus with others. You view these contributing editors, in this article, as a handful of people acting against a mass of dissent, when they view themselves as hard working participants that have tried hard to work together to build an article, and protect it against an uniformed mass of well-meaning vandals. Atom 15:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

In that case I will be registering to remove the image. This has gone on long enough. --68.111.70.104 21:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The picture is a disgrace, makes me sick.

>>It's images like this that makes wikipedia a joke. Please, the picture of the bottle of horse semen is good enough. If you're gonna post a picture of human's semen, have the semen be in a cup or tube...

I am going to quite deliberately butt in here without reading the archived debate and just state that this picture is utterly pointless and expendable, in my opinion. And as BBF3 would say, "I left it at that". Lfh 21:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

After reading a bit of the discussion, it seems that the concensus is that the picture, although relevant, is in no way medical or scientific. As pointed out, a simple Google image search would give over 40,000 pictures of semen, in both scientific and pornographic settings. After sifting through the first page in the name of sceintific integrity (ew...), I found that a few of those are obviously more medical in nature than the splotch on Wikipedia's page. Why not leave the horse picture on and remove this pointless pic? SivArt 06:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Do you guys need an extra picture of semen?

I can hook you up with another picture of semen if you want 128.220.159.42 03:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Linkimage

Template:Linkimage has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.   — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 23:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I just jacked off on my coffee table and am submitting the subsequent photo to Britannica for consideration in their upcoming edition. The picture up right now is ridiculous and makes this place look like an unprofessional, perverted junk show. Show some class and delete this picture immediately.

[edit] Excuse me....

Why on earth is there an a picture of semen on a pair of pants? I'm not against having a picture, just something a LITTLE bit more classy please! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.163.120.175 (talk) 22:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Pants, huh? I always thought it was a curtain or a couch. It looks too taut to me to be a pair of pants. Salad Days 22:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I always thought it was the Statue of Liberty. 87.112.84.60 15:41, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why slugs?

It seems completely random that slugs are mentioned near the start of this article. It could equally read that "Semen is ... secreted by ... male or hermaphroditic animals, including badgers" or "...wombats" or whatever. I guess what is meant is that slugs are examples of hermaphrodites but that is not what the text actually says, and is irrelevent in an article on semen anyway.80.229.220.14 02:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the semen photo

that picture is completely offensive, uncouth at best. Can you not find one in perhaps a more sterile seeming environment like in a medical setting? is it even necessary to have a photo? could it not just as easily be a diagram explaining the ejaculatory process or drawing? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.125.102.141 (talk) 13:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

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