Talk:Scottish Gaelic punk

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2/2/2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

[edit] scatha?

Did Scatha actually record anything in Gaelic? I cant remember anything by them in Gaelic though i'm aware that Aonghas (?) the singer had attempted to learn some of the language. Can anyone name any of their Gaelic songs? And, does one garbled verse in an Ultravox song count?

Garbled? Nah, it wasn't Midge Ure singing it in the recording, it was a native Gaidhlig speaking lady, and it's not unclear. Yes, I think it does count, particularly as they were a major band in their time. Scatha definitely did some performances of songs in Gaidhlig, because I remember them in concert. I think they probably recorded them. How bad or good is relative, but Mill-a-hoola-hoop think saying "rach air muin" all the time and singing about being naked is rude. Better than nothing I suppose, and a shame they're based nowhere near Scotland or Nova Scotia themselves. --MacRusgail 19:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Admittedly i haven't actually heard the Ultravox song but having looked at the lyrics could make little sense of them, they appeared to be a poor translation of the English rather than genuine original Gaelic. I've heard at least one Scatha LP, the one with the hessian sackcloth cover and ogham writing, and apart from a phrase or two ('chan fhaic sinn a' choille air sgath nan craobhan') there were no songs in Gaelic. Though, if there were on other release, i look forward to seeing them included in this cateogory. Have to disagree re. Mill a h-Uile Rud. They're the best thing to happen to Gaidlig music since Runrig started. Unlike some bands, they recieve nothing from the arts council to promote the tongue yet still use in daily communication as a real language on top of recording contemporay music. Your geographical knowledge isn't quite right too. Drummer Sine's mother is from Beinn na Fadhla and singer Tim is currently living in Sleite. Co-dhiu, b'urrainn dhuinn deasbad sa Ghaidhlig fhein air eagal's gu bheil an comas agad. S uidheil dhomh faicinn na tha daoine eile a' cur ris an larach seo. Se goireas air leth a th'ann gun teagamh. Gura fada beo Wikipedia! Cuideachd, eil cail a dh'fhios aig duine mu chomhlain air an robh na h-Urines a Steornabhagh a chuireadh air bhog ri linn a' chiad ginealach de chomhlain phunc? A-reir choltais, bha a leithid ann, is oran aca leis an ainm sgoinneil 'Union Jack, thall is cac'.

What i think seperates the bands mentioned here and Scatha is that all have one or more members who actually speak Gaelic either as learners or native speakers. A friend of mine who is still in regular contact with Scatha members (now Tribe) says they did not record in Gaelic and only used a few words here and there. Slainte... seonaidh

Mill the hoola hoop are alright, but aren't a great punk band. They're a good thing for Gaidhlig, but not really good punk. I've read on their publicity they live in Seattle. As for Scatha, I couldn't understand their English "grunting", so nae hope for the Gaidhlig like.

"b'urrainn dhuinn deasbad sa Ghaidhlig fhein air eagal's gu bheil an comas agad."

Uill, innis dhomh mu dheidhinn the Urines, ma tha! p.s. An tusa Seonaidh aig Cothrom? --MacRusgail 21:18, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

p.p.s. [|clic an seo!]

S mi an aon Seonaidh. Gu mi-fhortanach, chan eil an corr fiosrachaidh agam mu na h-Urines. Chuala mi man deidhinn bho Leodhasach. S mathaid gur iad Na Lochies ann an riochd eile! Aidh, bha Scatha rudeigin garbh. Bha smuaintean is giulain mhath aca ge-ta. Slàn.

I wanted to bring up the words ‘learner’ and particularly ‘outsider’ used to describe members of the bands and also to compare the movement in general to Welsh punk. In the first instance, I am not sure about the accuracy of the labels anyway. To the best of my knowledge, the Welsh scene also involved people from North and South Wales, learners and native speakers, but also, the notion of ‘insider vs outsider’ and to a lesser extent, ‘learner vs native-speaker,’ are breaking down in the Gaelic world, with the centre of gravity in terms of speaker numbers moving to the Lowlands, and increasing numbers of young Gaels acquiring Gaelic in school rather than in the home, even in the Islands, and with various levels of Gaelic ability amongst native-speakers, running from super-fluent to passive-users, it is increasingly difficult to apply those labels anyway.

In the bands, all are learners (so far), but many of us are also in a grey area between in and out. Sìne is a great example. Her mom was from Benbecula and she was born in Scotland but she grew up in the States until, as a young teen-ager, she left home to live in Edinburgh and learned Gaelic from Speaking Our Language tapes she checked out at the Edinburgh public library. She attended SMO, but now lives back in the States and comes over regularly to work as a Gaelic TV presenter. Insider or outsider? It's hard, and in a way, unfair to say. And I am a little worried about putting too much emphasis on ‘insider vs outsider’ and ‘learner vs native-speaker’ in the Gaelic revival. The Welsh have done an excellent job of (mostly) avoiding this dichotomy. Other language revivals have not and it’s poisonous. One of the great things about Gaelic punk is we have scrupulously avoided these labels. Got Gaelic? You're in! There just aren’t enough Gaelic speakers to be dividing people. I didn’t remove the words, because I wanted to debate this point and respect the author(s), and I know that there are some out there who are much more informed about Welsh punk than me, but just a thought. Ròc, Tim

Just seems a current trend. Gaidhlig blogs in Kazakhstan, punk groups from the other side of America. This is cosmopolitan and good, but there is need for support within NS and Alba itself. --MacRusgail 20:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Can't disagree with you there. That's a really key point. However, Mill a h-Uile Rud to one side, all of the other bands mentioned on the page are based in Scotland and two of them, Nad Aislingean and Là Luain, are based in the Gaidhealtachd. Also, I was wondering, with the new specific emphasis on Scottish Gaelic Punk in the place of Gaelic Punk, are the Celtic punk bands mentioned in the first paragraph still appropriate? Personally, my bias is to identify this sub-genre with bands that sing some or all of their music in Gaelic. What do you think? Thanks for the reply! Ròc Tim